Paul of Dune spoilers

[Ampoliros]

Okay I just had to quote this here:

"Her credentials were unimpeachable as the wife of Muad'dib and daughter of Shaddam IV.
Expanding on The Life of Muad'dib, she intended to explore tributaries to the river of his remarkable life. In the process, she would again see the need to alter a few details here and there, though few would realize it as long as she got the gist of the story right. Paul's propagandists and deluded religious followers remained blithely unaware of the blinders they wore, of the dark forms they refused to see."

"deluded religious followers". KJA Gives the Talifans (Read: Us ) a cameo in PAUL OF DUNE! I count this as a victory. Especially since he has Irulan proclaim herself a Hack here. I can't wait to see if he has her hiking through the wilderness of Arrakis, using a dictatell...

Page 103 however is at first glance worth tearing out of the book. Paul and Irulan basically have a discussion over "inconsistancies" in her history. Paul tells her that the parts of his life (about his youth) that have been left out are irrelevant (emphasis THEIRS the next page starts the section on young Paul). Paul basically tells her that the readers will believe inconsistancies even if she writes something that contradicts what she wrote earlier.

I was offended the first time I read this until I realized this is yet more proof that the OH message is starting to sink in so much that they have to justify themselves in a sloppy manner within the text of the book

[leagued]

He has Irulan use the term "gist of the story"? Really? A princess and literary scholar. The prose of every single sample I've seen has been atrocious.

[Mr. Teg]

He has Irulan use the term "gist of the story"? Really? A princess and literary scholar. The prose of every single sample I've seen has been atrocious.

Exactly! My favorite so far, the use of "buffet line" by Gurney.

(But, like Kevin said in the interview, he specifically wrote these books with his Star Wars fans in mind.)

[A Thing of Eternity]

Tina Fey isn't hot? I'm going to have to get my eyes examined then, 'cause I'd do her.

I meant Palin.

[Lisan Al-Gaib]

I was offended the first time I read this until I realized this is yet more proof that the OH message is starting to sink in so much that they have to justify themselves in a sloppy manner within the text of the book

Yeah! Our Jihad is unstoppable!

Amp, your review make me believe much more to stay distant from that (shit) book. thanks.

[Rakis]

He has Irulan use the term "gist of the story"? Really? A princess and literary scholar. The prose of every single sample I've seen has been atrocious.

Exactly! My favorite so far, the use of "buffet line" by Gurney.

(But, like Kevin said in the interview, he specifically wrote these books with his Star Wars fans in mind.)

So it's for the 10 to 15 age range, right? How surprising...

[Ampoliros]

I think its more for the slow 10 to 15 year olds. I want to bitch slap whoever edited this 'book'. Because they obviously didn't. SC mentioned that Paul ends up fighting alongside his own troops anonymously and doesn't even know the name of the planet he's on. That alone is bad writing. On the next page, Paul knows the name of the planet he's on. Thats not bad editing, thats NO editing and NO peer review.

Seriously, KJA, your books would be 10x better if you fucking edit them.

I know this well, as a student I HATE editing papers. But I get much better grades on the ones which I edit. At the grad level, not editing a paper is tantamount to failure.

[Rakis]

Well, at the speed they do the books, i'm not surprise about bad editing...Add that to all the usual repetitiveness. I don't envy you one bit Ampoliros... I'm gonna sit that one out, i think...

[SandChigger]

If you read certain passages in the right light, it's obvious Kevvy is now REALLY on the defensive and is talking back to/at us.

The "if you write it, they will believe it" BS, if HE believes it, shows just how disconnected he and the fanboys are from reality. (Or maybe how connected he is to THEIR reality.)

[Freakzilla]

Tina Fey isn't hot? I'm going to have to get my eyes examined then, 'cause I'd do her.

I meant Palin.

She's the hottest VP Candidate I've ever seen.

[Secher Nbiw]

From my dunenovels thread...

It comes across as incredibly childish when you place it next to the numerous discussions online and the criticism being brought up against the new books.

I'm talking of course about the part where Irulan and Paul discuss her writing down the history of Muad'Dib.

As I asked before, will the new book impose itself on the older books, and that question is answered. Because an inconsistency in one book is being brought up numerous times in other books, solely to have it be validated by the characters in the new books.

We all know the debate about where Paul was born. According to Dune, according to the six original novels, Paul was born on Caladan, had never made a trip through space before coming to Dune... but in the new books he gets a new homeplanet...

People pointed out the contradiction, and first it was explained on the website, which didn't quite fall on good ground. People weren't having it. So now we have characters blattantly telling us in the new books "listen up, you are wrong when you go by the information from the original six books, what we're telling you now, forty years after the publication of the first book... is what's right."

Why are they doing it?

"Her credentials were unimpeachable as the wife of Muad'dib and daughter of Shaddam IV.
Expanding on The Life of Muad'dib, she intended to explore tributaries to the river of his remarkable life. In the process, she would again see the need to alter a few details here and there, though few would realize it as long as she got the gist of the story right. Paul's propagandists and deluded religious followers remained blithely unaware of the blinders they wore, of the dark forms they refused to see."

It comes across as forced and petty, to have characters state in a book that people who believe otherwise are "deluded" and that religious fanatics will gobble up anything Irulan writes down... it's not very subtle.

So why the need to bring the topic up over and over again and why the need to constantly one-up the critics and the originals? Instead of just dropping the issue altogether, it gets pushed back into the spotlight, with a message that states: "You are wrong, we are right, here are the characters, written by us, telling you that you are wrong and we are right".

What does it add?

dunno if it's going to get deleted, so I'll just copy it to here for safe-keeping...

[A Thing of Eternity]

Tina Fey isn't hot? I'm going to have to get my eyes examined then, 'cause I'd do her.

I meant Palin.

She's the hottest VP Candidate I've ever seen.

Fair enough.

[Nekhrun]

This may be more of a spoiler for the HLP, but when I went to pick up a copy yesterday at BN there weren't even any copies in the Dune section, they had some copies in a display near the back door. There weren't even any copies on the new Sci-Fi shelf, and I know it wasn't because they were sold out because it was completely stocked with other books.

How are people going to hate on it if they can't get a copy?

[Tleilax Master B]

I've been pigging out on DVDs again tonight, like every night (the cable people can't get round to reconnect me until Thursday), so I haven't done much more looking through the book, but during a glance while having a very pleasant jetlagged bowel clearance, I did find something fun for Mastuh B:

Prepare to meet Thallo, the famed Tleilaxu Kwisatz Haderach. Who, because the Fenrings are spending a year on Tleilax, becomes playmate and confidant to little Marie Fenring.

Young Thallo is a WunderKind in many many ways. There are repeated references to his ability to fool the equipment of the Tleilaxu scientists observing him. I haven't found the relevant passage though that spells out whether this manipulation is legitimate (meaning, by physical means) or by some psychic bullshit they've dreamed up. Everything I've read so far could go either way.

Oh fuck me running backwards. Didn't I predict this on 'Keen at one point? that they would eventually incorporate the BT KH into the stories. Dammit, well I was debating still on whether to bother reading this steaming piece of shit so I could hammer it, but reading that may make a vein pop in my head.

[Tleilax Master B]

Was busy with other stuff yesterday and I didn't spend much time on PuD, so there's no much new to report at the moment.

Did want to clear up a possible mistaken impression I may have given: Thallo, the BT KH, is pretty much fully grown but still becomes friends with Marie Fenring.

There are repeated references to the "film" suit he wears and a bit more attention paid to details of the perfection of his physique than I was comfortable with. Nothing quite so homoerotic as Erasmus ogling Gilbertus' bum in the shower, but you still gotta wonder which one of them writes this shit.

And Thallo wants to off himself in a big way to teach the BT Masters a lesson. So much for him killing himself because he is unable to live with becoming his opposite.

(Obviously the lesson of someone being punished for hubris really hasn't sunk into Kevin's noggin. Maybe shigawire filaments in the combover act like a tin foil hat? )

Oh gawd, as I read through this you're killing me SC. They couldn't even get the BT KH not wanting to become the opposite thang right. Damn those hacks.

[Ampoliros]

If you read certain passages in the right light, it's obvious Kevvy is now REALLY on the defensive and is talking back to/at us. Laughing

The "if you write it, they will believe it" BS, if HE believes it, shows just how disconnected he and the fanboys are from reality. (Or maybe how connected he is to THEIR reality.)

This is the only reason I'm finishing the book. It's hilarious to see KJA effected this way, and to know that it was we the Orthodox Herbertian community that brought it about.

I love the Traviss inside joke as well.

From my dunenovels thread...

It comes across as incredibly childish when you place it next to the numerous discussions online and the criticism being brought up against the new books.

I'm talking of course about the part where Irulan and Paul discuss her writing down the history of Muad'Dib.

As I asked before, will the new book impose itself on the older books, and that question is answered. Because an inconsistency in one book is being brought up numerous times in other books, solely to have it be validated by the characters in the new books.

We all know the debate about where Paul was born. According to Dune, according to the six original novels, Paul was born on Caladan, had never made a trip through space before coming to Dune... but in the new books he gets a new homeplanet...

People pointed out the contradiction, and first it was explained on the website, which didn't quite fall on good ground. People weren't having it. So now we have characters blattantly telling us in the new books "listen up, you are wrong when you go by the information from the original six books, what we're telling you now, forty years after the publication of the first book... is what's right."

Why are they doing it?

"Her credentials were unimpeachable as the wife of Muad'dib and daughter of Shaddam IV.
Expanding on The Life of Muad'dib, she intended to explore tributaries to the river of his remarkable life. In the process, she would again see the need to alter a few details here and there, though few would realize it as long as she got the gist of the story right. Paul's propagandists and deluded religious followers remained blithely unaware of the blinders they wore, of the dark forms they refused to see."

It comes across as forced and petty, to have characters state in a book that people who believe otherwise are "deluded" and that religious fanatics will gobble up anything Irulan writes down... it's not very subtle.

So why the need to bring the topic up over and over again and why the need to constantly one-up the critics and the originals? Instead of just dropping the issue altogether, it gets pushed back into the spotlight, with a message that states: "You are wrong, we are right, here are the characters, written by us, telling you that you are wrong and we are right".

What does it add?

dunno if it's going to get deleted, so I'll just copy it to here for safe-keeping...

Bravo sir!

SHIELDED ORNITHOPTERS!!!! What an effing retard!
(Hint KJA: Since you haven't read Dune...shields don't work in sandstorms...and they also call all worms in range and send them into a frenzy. So you know, that's bad.)

The Tleilaxu don't become religious fanatics for at least 5-3500 more years, depending on how you define it. Their religion is also a secret. The BG don't know about it until Heretics. What? The know it now, but forgot it 5000 years from now? You do know about the Bene Gesseritt's special abilities right? I don't just mean the ability to turn invisible (idiot). This has all been discussed before, you'd know about it if you hadn't had the posts deleted.

Priests of Dur...
see above. (Unless of course you were making a jab at your own readers who worshiping you would of course call themselves Priests of Durrr)

[Lisan Al-Gaib]

SHIELDED ORNITHOPTERS!!!! What an effing retard!
(Hint KJA: Since you haven't read Dune...shields don't work in sandstorms...and they also call all worms in range and send them into a frenzy. So you know, that's bad.)

Hawat's attention was caught by a flash of sun on metal to the south, a
'thopter plummeting there in a power dive, wings folded flat against its sides,
its jets a golden flare against the dark silvered gray of the sky. It plunged
like an arrow toward the troop carrier which was unshielded because of the
lasgun activity around it. Straight into the carrier the diving 'thopter
plunged.

It seems the thopters were shielded, but because of the lasgun activity the shield of this troop carrier thopter was disable.

Maybe only the body of the thopter was shielded to not affect the aerodynamic.

[leagued]

The Harkonnens were big on using shields because they refused to adapt to the environmental pressures of Dune. One of the biggest points- that I picked up on anyway- emphasizing the Harkonnens' faults was their hubris and their belief that power/wealth could make any situation bend to their wishes. Paul, in contrast, adapted to the environment of Dune. He wouldn't keep trying to use shields on Dune when he knew the problems of them in the open desert (he still used them within the city for at least personal protection).

[cmsahe]

... so far, the use of "buffet line" by Gurney.

(But, like Kevin said in the interview, he specifically wrote these books with his Star Wars fans in mind.)

What? KJA is mad! A Dune book for Star Wars fans?! What's next? A LOTR sequel for Harry Potter fans? Please somebody take his water!

[cmsahe]

The BT KH was mentioned in DM.

DM:

"How has Idaho been conditioned?" Irulan asked.
"Idaho?" Edric asked, looking at the Tleilaxu. "Do you know of an Idaho, Scytale?"
"We sold you a creature called Hayt," Scytale said.
"Ah, yes -- Hayt," Edric said. "Why did you sell him to us?"
"Because we once bred a kwisatz haderach of our own," Scytale said.
With a quick movement of her old head, the Reverend Mother looked up at him. "You didn't tell us that!" she accused.
"You didn't ask," Scytale said.
"How did you overcome your kwisatz haderach?" Irulan asked.
"A creature who has spent his life creating one particular representation of his selfdom will die rather than become the antithesis of that representation," Scytale said.
"I do not understand," Edric ventured.
"He killed himself," the Reverend Mother growled.
"Follow me well, Reverend Mother," Scytale warned, using a voice mode which said: You are not a sex object, have never been a sex object, cannot be a sex object.

[Ampoliros]

SHIELDED ORNITHOPTERS!!!! What an effing retard!
(Hint KJA: Since you haven't read Dune...shields don't work in sandstorms...and they also call all worms in range and send them into a frenzy. So you know, that's bad.)

Hawat's attention was caught by a flash of sun on metal to the south, a
'thopter plummeting there in a power dive, wings folded flat against its sides,
its jets a golden flare against the dark silvered gray of the sky. It plunged
like an arrow toward the troop carrier which was unshielded because of the
lasgun activity around it. Straight into the carrier the diving 'thopter
plunged.

It seems the thopters were shielded, but because of the lasgun activity the shield of this troop carrier thopter was disable.

Maybe only the body of the thopter was shielded to not affect the aerodynamic.

No, the point I'm trying to make is that shields in the desert call worms from across all territorial boundaries, and drives them into a rage.

They are also ineffectual during storms, which is what they are trying to escape in this scene, although the shield is basically just mentioned in the background.

This is not to mention that in this scene there are several factories on the ground at once, working together. I'm pretty damn sure a worm will react to that much activity pretty fast.

Its called the law of diminishing returns, KJA. You're going to start learning about it the more you publish crap. I'm pretty sure that spice harvesting doesn't allow for a 30-minute setup time. If you have to lift your harvester off the ground to get it away fast enough in case of wormsign, you don't have 30 minutes to set up a "city-sized" group of harvesters.

[Hunchback Jack]

I don't know that it matters, but the quote from Dune indicates that the troop carrier, not the thopter, was shielded. (Or had a shield, but it was turned off). The quote doesn't indicate anything about the thopter one way or the other.

HBJ,
pedant.

[Secher Nbiw]

surprise surprise... it got deleted...

together with other posts...

[chanilover]

Okay I just had to quote this here:

"Her credentials were unimpeachable as the wife of Muad'dib and daughter of Shaddam IV.
Expanding on The Life of Muad'dib, she intended to explore tributaries to the river of his remarkable life. In the process, she would again see the need to alter a few details here and there, though few would realize it as long as she got the gist of the story right. Paul's propagandists and deluded religious followers remained blithely unaware of the blinders they wore, of the dark forms they refused to see."

"deluded religious followers". KJA Gives the Talifans (Read: Us ) a cameo in PAUL OF DUNE! I count this as a victory. Especially since he has Irulan proclaim herself a Hack here. I can't wait to see if he has her hiking through the wilderness of Arrakis, using a dictatell...

Page 103 however is at first glance worth tearing out of the book. Paul and Irulan basically have a discussion over "inconsistancies" in her history. Paul tells her that the parts of his life (about his youth) that have been left out are irrelevant (emphasis THEIRS the next page starts the section on young Paul). Paul basically tells her that the readers will believe inconsistancies even if she writes something that contradicts what she wrote earlier.

I was offended the first time I read this until I realized this is yet more proof that the OH message is starting to sink in so much that they have to justify themselves in a sloppy manner within the text of the book

It's surreal. The Hack has always justified his crap by retro-fitting it into the text, like Murbella casually throwing in the fact that she knows the Guild commune with the Oracle, as if it was common knowledge. HACK. I wondered why you all thought he was such a prick until I started reading Sandworms, and now I know why.

[cmsahe]

So ... many ... jokes.

Must ... avoid ... joke overload.

http://www.dunenovels.com/blog/page057.html

My God, where to start? The piss-yellow shirt? The thought of The Other Guy actually "editing"? Seriously, the jokes are practically writing themselves here ...

KJA writes that Brian is going to take his first crack...