Harrisons miniseries

[Anathema]

I've finally gotten around to watching the miniseries(I don't know what took me so long either ) and I've got to say that I'm pleased overall. MUCH better than Lynch' movie, wich I always considered an odd combination of being too "out there" for Dune illiterates to appreciate and still butchering just about everything in the novel.

Excepting the stillsuits wich could have been a lot better, I thought most of the costumes were great. I think I might be alone in this, but I loved the Sardaukar costumes (though anything would have been better than those fireman outfits in Lynch' version)

The miniseries bent the plot in a lot of places but that didn't bother me most of the time. But even though I thought it was worth watching, as a Dune fan I couldn't help being dissapointed at some points. In descending order of magnitude:

- Why did they bother including Fenring at all (as a mere court advisor, at that) if they were going to deny him his greatest moment at the end of the book

- Duncan dying because of a missile instead of taking down 19 Sardaukar in melee combat

- Thufir's role being practically scrapped. When I bought it one of the things I wished would be in it was his death scene.

- Paul's immaturity. Though I didn't think it was as bad as I've heard from other people it still made me cringe to see him being such a disrespectful dick against Gurney after practice.

- To many guns. Well, for the Sardaukar and Harkonnen anyway. The Fremen probably didn't use them enough in this flick. I know that the intricaties of shield dominated warfare would not be the easiest thing to explain to the casual viewer but it wouldn't be heinously difficult either. A scene where the Baron boasts of his brilliance of bringing back artillery against Feyd, for example. Oh wait, that part didn't make it either

- Not novel related, but the acting isn't the best quality I've ever seen. Most of it is descent but there are some quirky bits of overacting here and there. The best performance would probably be from the guy who played the Baron.

I'd give it a 7/10. Now to watch CoD...

[orald]

All diviations are blasphemy! Burn the infidels!


I've never actually watched more than a few minutes here and there of any of the mini's(watched through Lynch's though), and I probably wouldn't any time soon. I just can't stand to watch something like that, just like I can't watch Lynch's through anymore or read any of the shitquels.

[Ampoliros]

funny, i thought the costumes and the characterizations in the miniseries were very badly designed and far from what i expected. I do have a preference for the lynch film's look. (He didn't get the Sardaukar right either...)

Harrison himself is a bad characterization of Stephen Spielberg, that all i could think of watching the making of specials.

Like I said, I'm more a fan of the Lynch film because i feel that it got more things right that mattered. i liked the idea of the weirding modules even though they have absolutely no basis in the movie. I suspect Frank liked the idea of them as well, otherwise he definitely would have raised a fuss over them.

[GamePlayer]

Mixed emotions. Like, Hypatia driving off a cliff, in my new Maserati

I'm not really pleased with either adaptation, but I do like the Miniseries more than the Lynch film.

I appreciate the Lynch film for it's production value, for the strong sense of design present throughout the film and the lush sense of costumes and character. The Lynch film did promote that otherworldliness and a vast epic scale while at the same time even managing to delve into that palpable intrigue. Especially looking back at it and appreciating it for a 1984 production, the scope they achieved was amazing. But it's just to incoherent and all over itself. Lynch seemed to complicate an already intricately complex story and if his tale of studio interference and producer compromises is true, its obvious why. If it weren't Dune and was much more coherent, better paced and with less exposition, it would make a killer sci-fi classic.

I liked the miniseries for the characters, the detail and completeness of the script. The format did serve Dune extremely well and it moved along at a very satisfactory pace. But the Miniseries is a victim of it's own production ambitions. Quite simply, Harrison's production of Dune simply should not have been. A Dune adaptation simply cannot have indoor desert scenes; it just fails on every level. While the script was much better and so much more from the book was included, I agree that the costumes and some of the casting suffered. The effects were passable at the time, but look horribly dated now.

I can watch either and prefer the Miniseries more, but I'm still not satisfied with the Dune adaptations. Sadly, that's a situation unlikely to change for a long time

[orald]

Sadly, that's a situation unlikely to change for a long time

Don't worry, chum, only while Brian Herbert lives.

[leagued]

I just re-watched both of the miniseriesses's (think I covered all pluralization possibilities there) and while Dune grated for me due to the poor costuming, casting (Rabban, Stilgar), the trend of neutering awesome characters (Hawat, Fenring), and the overall mood (too light, not grim enough); I must say that CoD is much, much better.
CoD has an appropriate oppressiveness of mood about it and seems to have established a much darker, more brutal universe than we saw in the first mini. Costuming and sets are much more subdued with desert tones predominate almost everywhere. the cast is also much stronger, the replacement Stilgar is almost perfect- grizzled, leathery, fearsome. I also thought they did a good job with showing the intrigue of the Empire even though they made some substantial changes by having Wensicia a central part of the DM conspiracy. And I thought the casting of Leto (James McAvoy) was great as well, though I couldn't help but think he would have made a much better Paul for the first mini (he actually looks young enough)

[Tleilax Master B]

Excepting the stillsuits wich could have been a lot better, I thought most of the costumes were great. I think I might be alone in this, but I loved the Sardaukar costumes (though anything would have been better than those fireman outfits in Lynch' version)

Why don't you ask Freak what he thought about all those brilliantly smashing hats.

[Robspierre]

The first mini-series suffered from a limited budget, hence the made for stage look, its success allowed Children of Dune to have a better budget and hence a better overall production.

Rob

[Freakzilla]

The first mini-series suffered from a limited budget, hence the made for stage look, its success allowed Children of Dune to have a better budget and hence a better overall production.

Rob

It would have been a lot better if they hadn't wasted so much money on hat design.

[halcyo]

Even John Harrison himself thought the Sardukar uniforms were kinda ridiculous....in the commentary, he say's something like "ah! It's the attack of the sous chefs!"


I like the minis for the fact that they were 'closer' to the actual events of the book, but I also agree that they both seem to take liberties at the EXACT WRONG moments of the plot!

In the first, things like Duncan NOT going down in the glory of hand to hand combat is an idiotic SUBTRACTION to his character. WHY IN FUCKS SAKE CAN'T ANYBODY JUST EXPLAIN WHAT THE KWISATZ HADERACH IS - it's NOT as complicated and confusing as all the film adaptions make it out to be... I could go on and on of course... The first mini is 'closer', but still no where NEAR something that could be called even a good adaption of the book.

Children of Dune was actually REALLY well directed, and I thought the acting was stunning - the production really did have some 'major motion picture' moments. Unfortunately, the same half assed script called for more unexplained plot/detail changes that only serve to confuse the viewer moreso than the book.... The sandtrout/Leto thing REALLY bothers me. Why is it only on his fuckin arm!? And why would THAT make him impervious to sandstorms and able to run and jump with inhuman power? Everyone I've watched it with is like "I don't get it, why can he now run and jump and kill everybody?" I have to explain that the idiots who made the movie must have decided that ALL the logic of the novels was unnecessary or something..... "In the book, his whole body is covered with sandtrout, it sort of 'enjoins' to his muscles and tissue, creating an amplified kinetic strength/speed thing"

Then they look at me like I'm a complete nerd....

I know they will fuck it all up again, and I will STILL have to fight to explain why the books are literary masterpieces as people assume they must be half retarded versions of star wars after seeing the movie...

halcyo

[Nekhrun]

Even John Harrison himself thought the Sardukar uniforms were kinda ridiculous....in the commentary, he say's something like "ah! It's the attack of the sous chefs!"

I always thought they looked like the evil chef from Strawberry Shortcake.

[SandChigger]

I know they will fuck it all up again, and I will STILL have to fight to explain why the books are literary masterpieces as people assume they must be half retarded versions of star wars after seeing the movie...

Of course they will. How could they do otherwise?

But when you really think about it, a sucky "adventure movie with muscle" would prepare people for the "half retarded versions of star wars" that are the new books.


Expanding on the "how could they do otherwise" idea:

The new movie is basically just another example of a studio (and greedy family corporation) trying to profit off remaking something that has already been done. It's top-down, not bottom-up. Who is really passionate about this project? There was no script being pushed by a dedicated, inspired writer. Nor a director equally inspired and burning to get the film made. How can the result be anything more than a lifeless, dessicated thing?

Who sheds water (blood or tears) for Dune now?

[Lisan Al-Gaib]

I like the harrison minisseries. My first contact with dune was from it.

Obviously it had a lot of mistakes. But re-watching it nowadays I thing they could have used more shields in the battles. And they could have gived Duncan a best class death.

I liked the way they give Irulan more space in the minisseries and the characterization of the Atreides and the Fremens. All the cast was very good too, William hurt has Duke Leto was perfect to me.

I see that harisson is one of the producers for the new movie. I expect the same respect to the book has he did in the minisseries. lets see...

[orald]

I know they will fuck it all up again, and I will STILL have to fight to explain why the books are literary masterpieces as people assume they must be half retarded versions of star wars after seeing the movie...

Knowing that SW is half based on Dune only makes it worse, doesn't it?

[Tleszer]

I know they will fuck it all up again, and I will STILL have to fight to explain why the books are literary masterpieces as people assume they must be half retarded versions of star wars after seeing the movie...

Knowing that SW is half based on Dune only makes it worse, doesn't it?

So which is better: The Clone Wars or Ghola Wars (Grunters and Sadworms?)

[orald]

Speaking of which, I'm kinda d/ling those two movies, have to refresh my memory of the shit they are since I think I'm missing half the fun.

[cmsahe]

This fan video is good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prBe-gXBBlE

[NotAbout]

I've finally gotten around to watching the miniseries(I don't know what took me so long either ) and I've got to say that I'm pleased overall. MUCH better than Lynch' movie, wich I always considered an odd combination of being too "out there" for Dune illiterates to appreciate and still butchering just about everything in the novel.

Excepting the stillsuits wich could have been a lot better, I thought most of the costumes were great. I think I might be alone in this, but I loved the Sardaukar costumes (though anything would have been better than those fireman outfits in Lynch' version)

The miniseries bent the plot in a lot of places but that didn't bother me most of the time. But even though I thought it was worth watching, as a Dune fan I couldn't help being dissapointed at some points. In descending order of magnitude:

- Why did they bother including Fenring at all (as a mere court advisor, at that) if they were going to deny him his greatest moment at the end of the book

- Duncan dying because of a missile instead of taking down 19 Sardaukar in melee combat

- Thufir's role being practically scrapped. When I bought it one of the things I wished would be in it was his death scene.

- Paul's immaturity. Though I didn't think it was as bad as I've heard from other people it still made me cringe to see him being such a disrespectful dick against Gurney after practice.

- To many guns. Well, for the Sardaukar and Harkonnen anyway. The Fremen probably didn't use them enough in this flick. I know that the intricaties of shield dominated warfare would not be the easiest thing to explain to the casual viewer but it wouldn't be heinously difficult either. A scene where the Baron boasts of his brilliance of bringing back artillery against Feyd, for example. Oh wait, that part didn't make it either

- Not novel related, but the acting isn't the best quality I've ever seen. Most of it is descent but there are some quirky bits of overacting here and there. The best performance would probably be from the guy who played the Baron.

I'd give it a 7/10. Now to watch CoD...

I pretty much agree with you on most of those things. What really bugged me was the desert backdrop and that stupid looking wall of rocks. Oh, and also the part where it looks like Paul pisses himself and creates a waterfall. (You guys are right about the hats too though)

I don't understand Lynch's version, I don't want to... Alia's little posing thing with the knife at the end just makes me laugh.

CoD is much better in my opinion, or more specifically, the first part of CoD (DM).

[Tyrant]

i enjoy both of the mini series..they're my first contact with dune..they're what inspired me to read the books.

what i find funny though is the first mini series is way more close to the book than the second one..and everyone here favors the second one ... and people seem to frown on alec newman as paul .... but i thought he did a great job (minus being a whiny little bitch at the beginning of the first one)...in the second one he was masterful...in the dune messiah portion i thought he was a great paul..i mean he WAS Paul Atreides...in the children of dune section he was even better...him as the preacher was amazing ..damn fine acting

[NotAbout]

I don't know about Alec Newman, never really liked him all that much but I can't say why. You're right though, he was much better in CoD than in Dune.

[TheDukester]

The headwear in both series is nothing short of awesome.

[SandChigger]

Said he, sporting a new avatar.

[TheDukester]

It's my fancy cap! All the hip trained killers are wearing them this season.

[Tleszer]

It's my fancy cap! All the hip trained killers are wearing them this season.

Just don't let Freak see you. You know how he feels about those hats...

[TheDukester]

He loves them? Can't get enough?