The Raglan Scale in Dune (thanks Askaris)

[lotek]

Lord Raglan, in The Hero (1936) has classified the parallel life-patterns of the mythical hero of tradition into twenty-two archetypal incidents, as noted below. The higher a particular hero scores, the closer he is to the UR-archetype of the sacred hero-king of prehistoric religious ritual; a historical hero is likely to share rather few of the mythical characteristics.




1. The hero's mother is a royal virgin.
Jessica is obviously not a virgin but the Bene Gesserit order which gqve her her education does carry a posture of virgin priestesses; and even though she's not of royal blood we are told many times how regal her bearing is

2. His father is a king and
well a Duke; close to the Imperial throne

3. often a near relative of the mother, but
not in this case though

4. the circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
well Jessica was ordered to bear a daughter and against all odds she didn't

5. he is also reputed to be the son of a god
not the son of a god but something close to a god himself

6. at birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or maternal grandfather, to kill him, but
not at birth, but an attempt is made by the Harkonnen and so his maternal grandfather once with the hunter seeker and the second time when the Atreides are defeated on Arrakis
7. He is spirited away, and
he is spirited away by Kynes and Idaho
8. reared by foster-parents in a far country.
brought up by the Fremen; with Stilgar as a father figure

9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but
indeed we do not know much of the events before the first chapter of Dune as far as Paul is concerned
10. on reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
not quite as he is already in what will be the siege of his power
11. After a victory over the king and or giant, dragon, or wild beast
riding the worm more than qualifies
12. he marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
marries Irulan to
13. becomes king.
become Emperor
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully and
there I would not call the Jihad uneventful, but as far as the story telling is concerned we are not told much of it, only bits of info through how it has affected other characters
15. prescribes laws but
his word IS law
16. later loses favor with the gods and or his people and
part of the Fremen conspire against him
17. is driven from from the throne and the city after which
sent into the desert to die like all blind fremen
18. He meets with a mysterious death
so mysterious noone knows if he really died, but his real death is more pragmatic
19. often at the top of a hill.
at the top of a dune?
20. His children, if any, do not succeed him.
Leto II will, but in his human/worm form and his OM it is not really sure how much of him is left
21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless
what happens to his body btw?

22. he has one or more holy sepulchres.

not sure about that one

[lotek]

so he scores pretty close.
It is also quite typical of Frank he'd just borrow some elements without conforming totally to an archetype himself.


It is also vaguely remininscent of how Jessica realizes how the work of the Missionaria Protectiva has been tampered with on Dune(by whom it is not clear afaik)

[Freakzilla]

22. he has one or more holy sepulchres.

not sure about that one

Leto II is the tomb of all his ancestors, I believe he says something to that effect in GEoD. He may use the word mausoleum.

"You don't think of a mausoleum as a comforting place, Moneo. I find it a source
of infinite strength."
Moneo remembered that he had been anxious to get off this topic. "Yes, Lord."
Leto had persisted: "There are only a few of my ancestors here. The water of
Muad'Dib is here. Ghani and Harq-al-Ada are here, of course, but they're not my
ancestors. No, if there's any true crypt of my ancestors, l am that crypt. This
is mostly the Duncans and the products of my breeding program. You'll be here
someday."

[lotek]

yeah nice one

[MrFlibble]

Nice analysis. I think there's an article somewhere on the net that also covers the issue of archetypal/mythological roots and themes in Dune (The Hero with a Thousand Faces is mentioned in that article IIRC).

[Edit] Fixed the [url] link tags.

[Superdog]

Looking at it a bit more skeptically, I would say 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 19, and 20 don't apply. So that's 11 out of 22 that do apply.

Paul does have strong archetypal qualities, certainly. The boy king fighting to regain his throne is a strong one.

[inhuien]

22. he has one or more holy sepulchres.

not sure about that one

Leto II is the tomb of all his ancestors, I believe he says something to that effect in GEoD. He may use the word mausoleum.

"You don't think of a mausoleum as a comforting place, Moneo. I find it a source
of infinite strength."
Moneo remembered that he had been anxious to get off this topic. "Yes, Lord."
Leto had persisted: "There are only a few of my ancestors here. The water of
Muad'Dib is here. Ghani and Harq-al-Ada are here, of course, but they're not my
ancestors. No, if there's any true crypt of my ancestors, l am that crypt. This
is mostly the Duncans and the products of my breeding program. You'll be here
someday."

He also resides in Other Memory.

[SandRider]

nice general info, lotek, had never heard of this - the little baby jesus kinda fits right in there, eh ?

[lotek]

I found the Raglan scale reference on one of the facebook posts of the French speaking guy in the title(i am no leech i quote my sources ), and I have always been interested by archetypes and the way humans across time and space tend to conform to them

And if A or A sees this i know there was more info on that post of them/him but I can't remember where I saw it, and I'd like to have a look at the rest if possible

[Freakzilla]

22. he has one or more holy sepulchres.

not sure about that one

Leto II is the tomb of all his ancestors, I believe he says something to that effect in GEoD. He may use the word mausoleum.

"You don't think of a mausoleum as a comforting place, Moneo. I find it a source
of infinite strength."
Moneo remembered that he had been anxious to get off this topic. "Yes, Lord."
Leto had persisted: "There are only a few of my ancestors here. The water of
Muad'Dib is here. Ghani and Harq-al-Ada are here, of course, but they're not my
ancestors. No, if there's any true crypt of my ancestors, l am that crypt. This
is mostly the Duncans and the products of my breeding program. You'll be here
someday."

He also resides in Other Memory.

I believe that's what he meant.

[inhuien]

I really should have read more than the 1st line of the quoted passage.