Chapter 08

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Freakzilla
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Chapter 08

Postby Freakzilla » 13 Feb 2008 17:45

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the sand; and he had two horns like a lamb, but his mouth was fanged and fiery as the dragon and his body shimmered and burned with great heat while it did hiss like the serpent.
-Revised Orange Catholic Bible

Many believe that The Preacher is actually Muad'dib returned from the desert. There are many similarities but the main one being that he was eyeless. Blind Fremen are extremely rare because they abandon the blind in the desert to Shai Hulud. He has come to the steps of Alias temple, led by a young Fremen guide, whom no one knew. Pilgrims are praying, buying relics and dancing, it is all too much for The Preacher.

He calls them all blasphemers and idolaters, Muad'dib spurns his religion and them and tells them sand will cover this place, as well as them. He asks his guide to take them away but a pilgim asks him if he is Muad'dib. He pulls out a dessicated, severed human hand, balled into a fist and says all he brings is the hand of god and speaks for it. He is The Preacher.

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dunaddict
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Re: Chapter 08

Postby dunaddict » 20 Apr 2010 10:14

there were conversations in a hundred or more dialects of Galach interspersed with harsh gutturals and squeaks of outrine languages which were gathered under the Holy Imperium.

From Terminology of the Imperium in DUNE:
OUT-FREYN: Galach for "immediately foreign," that is: not of your immediate community, not of the select.

So, what is the correct translation of outrine? 'Not of your immediate culture'?

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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Chapter 08

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 20 Apr 2010 11:27

We actually had a whole thread dedicated to this word at one point I think. Let me try the search function to see if I can find it.

EDIT: I can't find it, for some reason the search function only turns up your post when I search outrine.

Chig - you were the one leading that thread I think, do you remember where it's hidden?
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Re: Chapter 08

Postby SadisticCynic » 20 Apr 2010 17:37

A Thing of Eternity wrote:We actually had a whole thread dedicated to this word at one point I think. Let me try the search function to see if I can find it.

EDIT: I can't find it, for some reason the search function only turns up your post when I search outrine.

Chig - you were the one leading that thread I think, do you remember where it's hidden?


I was gonna post a link to that thread as well but when the search turned up nothing I figured I'd read it elsewhere.
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Re: Chapter 08

Postby SandChigger » 20 Apr 2010 18:58

Rings a bell, but beats me. Arrakeen or Dune Novels? :?

FH uses the word twice, both in CoD; the first passage quoted by dunaddict and this:
"Salusa swarms with outrine relatives, all working upon Farad'n, hoping for a share in his return to power."

Compare that to one of the uses of out-freyn:
The greeting cheer lifted from the family galleries, and Feyd-Rautha paused to accept it, looking up and scanning the faces—seeing his cousines and cousins, the demibrothers, the concubines and out-freyn relations.

For reference, here's the only other use of that one, besides the Terminology entry:
"You saw the stranger, woman who went with Chani to the Reverend Mother?" Stilgar asked. "She's an out-freyn Sayyadina, mother to this lad. The mother and son are masters of the weirding ways of battle."

They kinda-sorta appear to mean about the same thing. Neither is a real word AFAIK, unless outrine is French or something? :?:

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Re: Chapter 08

Postby Freakzilla » 20 Apr 2010 19:06

"Outrine relatives" makes me think "not immediate family". :?
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Re: Chapter 08

Postby Freakzilla » 31 May 2012 11:39

Revised, clean.
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Re: Chapter 08

Postby georgiedenbro » 29 Sep 2014 16:19

Children of Dune wrote:Through it all there were conversations in a hundred or more dialects of Galach
interspersed with harsh gutturals and squeaks of outrine languages which were
gathered under the Holy Imperium. Face dancers and little people from the
suspected artisan planets of the Tleilaxu
bounced and gyrated through the throng
in bright clothing. There were lean faces and fat, water-rich faces.


:shock:

I guess the Tleilaxu weren't very secretive about the existence of Face Dancers or about hiding what they could do. It's one thing for Paul or Stilgar to have heard of them, but here they are dancing like fools for everyone to see. Or maybe no one except the Preacher would have known they were really Face Dancers? Either way I guess the Face Dancers were just tourists like everyone else, and that not all Face Dancers were necessarily assassins or agents. If we interpret the passage as being the Preacher's perspective (and also infer he can see without eyes) then perhaps the Face Dancers were incognito and he saw through it. But if the passage is from a neutral point of view then we have to conclude that the FD's are showing off their shape-shifting for all to see. If they are really doing that...I mean wow.

In a society where it's generally known that there are shape-changers you'd think there would be insane paranoia, or crazy security involving DNA testing all over the place, especially anywhere near the palace. Maybe a KH or RM can detect a FD, but for any other security checkpoint they'd need some kind of scanners or blood tests. Star Trek DS9 did a great job of showing how terrible the security situation would be when the existence of shape-changers was generally known, especially when the shape-shifters are known to be from a people steeped in deception and intrigue like the Founders or the Tleilaxu.
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Re: Chapter 08

Postby Freakzilla » 30 Sep 2014 06:59

Maybe face dancers are too valuable of an investment at this point to use less than openly or as an agent of espionage? IIRC, in Dune Messiah, Paul deduced that Lichna was a FD because he knew the girl and her family and through subtle signs of un-Fremen-like behavior, not through any particular "tell".
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Re: Chapter 08

Postby georgiedenbro » 30 Sep 2014 09:54

Freakzilla wrote:Maybe face dancers are too valuable of an investment at this point to use less than openly or as an agent of espionage? IIRC, in Dune Messiah, Paul deduced that Lichna was a FD because he knew the girl and her family and through subtle signs of un-Fremen-like behavior, not through any particular "tell".


Paul also saw through Scytale's 'lumbering brute' disguise earlier right away; I'm not sure if he knew it was a FD, but he knew it was an act. I think he saw signs of a 'performance' and betrayals of tiny behaviors that didn't fit.

Maybe the FD's by this point were more like a class of people, rather than particular agents of the state built for an assignment? Either way this passage had me scratching my head.
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Re: Chapter 08

Postby Serkanner » 30 Sep 2014 14:06

Also, Paul mentioned Scytale was a very good Facedancer. It was even difficult for Paul to see him for what he was. Perhaps other (regular) face dancers aren't but for entertainment and obvious to everybody to what they are
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