Length of day on Arrakis

[A Little Galach]

I believe a coriolis storm is by definition caused by rotation, no?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rotation that runs up against weather patterns that go against prevailing patterns, or fronts that are pulled down mountain tops.

right. but if arrakis has a faster-than-normal rotation wouldn't that by definition mean shorter days? Getting back to the discussion topic, I think, fast rotation on a planet that is inhabited primarily at the poles with a severely tilted axis means some funky days, right? If there's one sun thare should be some wacky seasons and light periods that the book doesn't mention. Right?

[lotek]

self introduction(cheers Chig')is quite a polite thing to do when you arrive on a forum my friend

EDIT

Getting back to the discussion topic,

yeah well that's gonna be a tough one here

[A Little Galach]

self introduction(cheers Chig')is quite a polite thing to do when you arrive on a forum my friend

I thought the internet for acting tough and cussing at people? I was waiting until I get my avatar loaded so I can impress everybody. Or let them down. Either one.

[lotek]

self introduction(cheers Chig')is quite a polite thing to do when you arrive on a forum my friend

I thought the internet for acting tough and cussing at people? I was waiting until I get my avatar loaded so I can impress everybody. Or let them down. Either one.

yeah whatever

[Freakzilla]

Are y'all scaring new people off?

I for one can't wait to see the avatar.

[lotek]

I didn't think that asking for proper introduction'd count as scaring off but it's your board so it's your call

[SandRider]

lotek's been kinda pissy lately - he's been in too deep with the researching
Keith and discovering what a douchebag now controls the spice - it spills over sometimes ....

the seething rage and anger will ferment into that oh-too-familiar ball of loathing
burning quietly in the pit of his stomach and he'll be alright ....

[Mandy]

INTERNET, SRS BSNS!

Welcome to Jacurutu, A Little Galach.

[SandChigger]

right. but if arrakis has a faster-than-normal rotation wouldn't that by definition mean shorter days? Getting back to the discussion topic, I think, fast rotation on a planet that is inhabited primarily at the poles with a severely tilted axis means some funky days, right? If there's one sun thare should be some wacky seasons and light periods that the book doesn't mention. Right?

Well, this is one of my favorite topics, so I don't mind getting back to it.

Faster-than-normal (=faster-than-Terran?) rotation would definitely mean shorter days than we have here on Earth. And the further north you go, the lower the sun's highest point in the sky, unless you have a REALLY severely tilted axis. BUT the greater the axial tilt, the longer and more pronounced the seasonal effects. As I tried to show in this diagram back on page 3



with just a little more tilt, the latitude of Arrakeen would be in constant and complete darkness for several months. Which the books make no mention at all of.

The only thing we can conclude is that FH didn't think everything through or didn't recognize the problem. He wasn't perfect, after all. His failings, of course, in no way excuse those of others.

[lotek]

lotek's been kinda pissy lately - he's been in too deep with the researching
Kei/th and discovering what a douchebag now controls the spice - it spills over sometimes ....

the seething rage and anger will ferment into that oh-too-familiar ball of loathing
burning quietly in the pit of his stomach and he'll be alright ....

ow the stupid it burns indeed!

indeed I have and if LG"s a valuable contribution to the board that"s great
and I'm no internet tough guy I'm just a guy that likes old fashionned hellos and howareyous that's all...

plus the only persons I cuss are the HLP so there you go

Sorry Chig didn't mean to fuck up your favourite topic though

edit
PMed ALG let's see what comes out of it

[A Little Galach]

with just a little more tilt, the latitude of Arrakeen would be in constant and complete darkness for several months. Which the books make no mention at all of.

The only thing we can conclude is that FH didn't think everything through or didn't recognize the problem. He wasn't perfect, after all. His failings, of course, in no way excuse those of others.

This is my opinion. It's nice to know that he was human.

[Freakzilla]

with just a little more tilt, the latitude of Arrakeen would be in constant and complete darkness for several months. Which the books make no mention at all of.

Sure about that? I could swear I remember mentions of dark skies in northern latitudes...



They heightened her feelings of confusion. She shuddered, glanced at the
slit windows high overhead. It was still early afternoon here, and in these
latitudes the sky looked black and cold -- so much darker than the warm blue of
Caladan. A pang of homesickness throbbed through her.

[Freakzilla]

For some reason I couldn't sleep...

She glanced out to the right at a slope humped with a wind-troubled graygreen
of bushes--dusty leaves and dry claw branches. The too-dark sky hung over
the slope like a blot, and the milky light of the Arrakeen sun gave the scene a
silver cast--light like the crysknife concealed in her bodice.
"The sky's so dark," she said.
"That's partly the lack of moisture," he said.

You know you've read Dune too many times when...

[Orthodox]

Interesting. I'd actually never really taken into consideration that part. I don't even remember trying to visualize the dark afternoon.

[Freakzilla]

Interesting. I'd actually never really taken into consideration that part. I don't even remember trying to visualize the dark afternoon.

Probably because most of the scenes are at night, the Fremen being nocturnal and all.

[A Little Galach]

Welcome to Jacurutu, A Little Galach.

Hey baby.

For some reason I couldn't sleep...

She glanced out to the right at a slope humped with a wind-troubled graygreen
of bushes--dusty leaves and dry claw branches. The too-dark sky hung over
the slope like a blot, and the milky light of the Arrakeen sun gave the scene a
silver cast--light like the crysknife concealed in her bodice.
"The sky's so dark," she said.
"That's partly the lack of moisture," he said.

You know you've read Dune too many times when...

I don't think I ever put that together. I actually remember thinking that the skies shouldn't change color because of no moisture, not thinking about the arctic location of Arakeen.

[SandChigger]

Sorry, Freak, but I don't buy it. A daytime/early afternoon sky looking "black & cold" is not what I'm talking about, but months of the sun not rising above the horizon and the stars being out. That's obviously NOT what FH was describing.

[Freakzilla]

Sorry, Freak, but I don't buy it. A daytime/early afternoon sky looking "black & cold" is not what I'm talking about, but months of the sun not rising above the horizon and the stars being out. That's obviously NOT what FH was describing.

Did you see the quote on the previous page?

Keep in mind, there would also be months where the sun was also be months where the sun was almost always UP, too.

[SandChigger]

Sorry, Freak, but I don't buy it. A daytime/early afternoon sky looking "black & cold" is not what I'm talking about, but months of the sun not rising above the horizon and the stars being out. That's obviously NOT what FH was describing.

Did you see the quote on the previous page?

No. I just pulled the phrase "black and cold" out of my ass.

Of course I saw (and read) the quotes. From "...and the milky light of the Arrakeen sun gave the scene a
silver cast," it sounds like the sun is up to me.

Keep in mind, there would also be months where the sun was also be months where the sun was almost always UP, too.

Of course. You can't have months of complete darkness without also having months without darkness.

This is getting kinda pointless. Here's the deal: beyond a certain axial tilt, you're going to have a season in which there are days in which the sun never rises, and a season at the opposite end of the year with days in which the sun never sets. Since FH never described anything like that, I think it's safe to assume that the planet didn't have that radical a tilt. And given the high latitudes where the action takes place, the lower the angle of axial tilt you imagine Arrakis as having, the better.

[Freakzilla]

You're right, it does seem that if that was the case and he'd known it would have been worth mentioning.

But I do think it is worthy to note that at least twice he mention it is dark around Arrakeen.

Sounds more like Arrakis has no tilt or very little. However, there is mention of seasons on Arrakis in the series.

[Orthodox]

Was this ever addressed in any interviews? It may have not been such a big consideration a decade or two ago, but the amount of detail, and expressive power that Frank put into his work, I just get lost on his description of the passage of time. I would assume since having left earth, everything to each House was, as far as measurement, either relative to their own standards, or the Imperial standards of the Landsraad.

[Freakzilla]

Was this ever addressed in any interviews? It may have not been such a big consideration a decade or two ago, but the amount of detail, and expressive power that Frank put into his work, I just get lost on his description of the passage of time. I would assume since having left earth, everything to each House was, as far as measurement, either relative to their own standards, or the Imperial standards of the Landsraad.

The references to seasons in the novels were usually by Fremen and I'm sure they didn't use the imperial calendar.

Stilgar's troop returning to the sietch with its two strays from the desert
climbed out of the basin in the waning light of the first moon. The robed
figures hurried with the smell of home in their nostrils. Dawn's gray line
behind them was brightest at the notch in their horizon-calendar that marked the
middle of autumn, the month of Caprock.

[Orthodox]

I've forgotten so much since reading DUNE. I really need to make time for it, again. Honestly a passage like this would explain a bit about the passages, but I probably never put a lot of importance on it.

[Freakzilla]

I've forgotten so much since reading DUNE. I really need to make time for it, again. Honestly a passage like this would explain a bit about the passages, but I probably never put a lot of importance on it.

When you do, follow along and add to the Reading Group.

Don't worry about missing details like that, I've read it so many times, sometimes just to look for things I missed before.

[dunaddict]

The first epigraph in House Corrino

The axis of spin for the planet Arrakis is at right angles to the radius of its orbit. The world itself is not a globe, but more a spinning top somewhat fat at the equator and concave toward the poles. There is a sense that this may be artificial, the product of some ancient artifice.
—Report of the Third Imperial Commission on Arrakis

Notice anything strange about the epigraph? Doesn't the second sentence seem like an intrusion? A planet taking the form of an oblate spheroid is not unusual; it's true of our Earth, after all. And that fact makes the position of the following reference to "ancient artifice" seem really inane, whereas if you removed the middle sentence, "ancient artifice" could more naturally refer to the more unusual zero axial tilt. You have to wonder if KJA or BoBo inserted something to make it kewler, without really thinking (again).

Oh no, I figured out why they put that second sentence there. The Muadru did it! We'll probably read about it in "The Golden Path of Dune".