posts that I think should be deleted at DN

[SandChigger]

dunenovels.com Forum Index » All Things Dune » Why do people hate the new Dune books?

Just wondering. I know that they have gotten universally good reviews and its disappointing to see, through some old posts in here, some don't like, even hate them. Its only a few people, but seriously, Frank Herbert isn't Jesus or anything. There have been more new books by Kevin and Brian Herbert than the original series, so they deserve at least half and half credit. I know myself and 96% percent of Dune fans like the new books. It seems Nebiros is one of these people who hate them for no reason.

Any more? You can just read your precious books by FH and ignore these. I'd like some of these people I've seen on Amazon.com to come over here. There're only like seven of them.

... There are many arguments for and against the new books. But I'm not the one who would be the first to tell you all the arguments against it. For that go to a guy we call Sandchigger. ...

I've seen him on Amazon.

[EDITED BY THE ALMIGHTY MODERATOR]

Did anyone happen to catch what the fuckwit wrote before Byro did his thang? Just curious.

I especially like how FragrantTalk displays his n00b ignorance with that "I'd like some of these people I've seen on Amazon.com to come over here."

Ya, right.

[Seraphan]

BTW so that some of you may know, Xianghua is the name of a character from a fighting video game. I guess this bit wrapped around her posts should pretty much paint the whole picture of this person for ya.

[TheDukester]

If UsAl and Xianghua aren't sockpuppets of someone here ...

A second theory: sock puppets, yes, but from a clever preek. This Xianghua idiot's posts, in particular, seem to be designed to try to get a rise out of the few pro-OH users left over there. Then, with one unwise response, Byron has the perfect excuse to pull out his ban-stick and over-compensate some more.

Here's this Xianghua moron's complete history; judge for yourself (it's only 12 posts, for now):

http://forum.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/sear ... r=Xianghua" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ampoliros]

I know I'd have to be getting paid to act that dumb.

No Deus Ex Machina? Hey X you do know what that means right? Its not a video game.

[SandChigger]

BTW so that some of you may know, Xianghua is the name of a character from a fighting video game. I guess this bit wrapped around her posts should pretty much paint the whole picture of this person for ya.

Thanks, I had no idea. It's a female then?

In that case, the name more likely means something like "Fragrant Flower". (I'm assuming the xiang is the same one as in Xiang Gang, "Fragrant Harbor", AKA Hong Kong. )

Anyway, never occurred to me it might be a bint. Very mannish.

Interesting interpretation, Dukester.

[SandChigger]

Oh, and here's braintrust Byron Merritt's authoritative statement on "canon" (in response to Schu in the Fragrant Moron's "Hey Dune Fans" thread):

I don't think you, as an individual, have the right to claim something as canon vs. noncanon. Even the term "canon" is pretty vague when it comes to fictional work(s). The reason I say this is because if someone "likes" the continued works of a universe, they could very well call it canon. But if they don't like it, then they'll do whatever they can to discredit it, including calling it noncanon. Take the DE for instance. Many Dune fans believed it to be canon until they started arguing against the prequels being canon and decided calling the DE such was somehow similar (if that makes sense).

The vagueness of canon is where much of this lay. If you look around at Wiki or dictionary.com or other relevant references online, you'll find a whole host of definitions. One of them says this: "any comprehensive list of books within a field." While another says this: "A canon, in terms of a fictional universe, is a body of material that is considered to be "genuine" or "official", that can be directly referenced as, or as if it were, material produced by the original author or creator of a series." So confusion reigns in some aspects.

But, again, calling something canon vs. noncanon cannot rest with the opinion of a few (or individual). Nowhere does it state that. I think time will tell, personally.

Think the myron realized that in that last bit he publicly stated his opinion that the HLP ("a few" individuals) has no right to declare the new books canon?

[DuneFishUK]

Afraid I zoned out a bit reading that. He doesn't address the concept of the canon as "what actually happened" - as in the context that is clearly inferred here. Maybe that thread needs simpler language...

(and I've never heard anyone, let alone "many", say the DE was canon - I thought FH's intro is pretty clear. )

[TheDukester]

Someone needs to tell Merritt that the concept of canon isn't unclear at all. It's perfectly straightforward. The only confusion comes from willfully trying to alter the concept to fit a certain set of specifics.

Obvious example: the Dune canon consists of the six books by Frank Herbert. Not the movie, not the two miniseries, not the DE (although that would be fun) and certainly not anything hacked out by Anderjacket and Bobo. It simply doesn't matter if they had notes or not, or how closely they stuck to them. That's not how canon works. End of.

[Freakzilla]

Someone needs to tell Merritt that the concept of canon isn't unclear at all. It's perfectly straightforward. The only confusion comes from willfully trying to alter the concept to fit a certain set of specifics.

Obvious example: the Dune canon consists of the six books by Frank Herbert. Not the movie, not the two miniseries, not the DE (although that would be fun) and certainly not anything hacked out by Anderjacket and Bobo. It simply doesn't matter if they had notes or not, or how closely they stuck to them. That's not how canon works. End of.

...and the two Dune short stories FH wrote in Eye.

[TheDukester]

Absolutely. My bad.

From the pen of FH = canon. All else = not.

It couldn't be simpler, really. All fanboi canon arguments that have ever been voiced (not just with McDune) have come from wishful thinking.

[DuneFishUK]

They could have written new books within the canon - they chose not to. Their choice.

[Hunchback Jack]

I don't think you, as an individual, have the right to claim something as canon vs. noncanon. Even the term "canon" is pretty vague when it comes to fictional work(s). The reason I say this is because if someone "likes" the continued works of a universe, they could very well call it canon. But if they don't like it, then they'll do whatever they can to discredit it, including calling it noncanon.

Sigh. Canon has a definite meaning. The fact that people might use it as a way to promote or discredit a work does not affect how easy it is to determine whether something is canon. Way to confuse the issue, Byron.

Take the DE for instance. Many Dune fans believed it to be canon until they started arguing against the prequels being canon and decided calling the DE such was somehow similar (if that makes sense).

Oh, for fuck's sake. This is, as far as I can tell, a complete fiction. The DM's canonicity was not demoted in order to add strength to the argument that the prequels are not canon.

The vagueness of canon is where much of this lay. If you look around at Wiki or dictionary.com or other relevant references online, you'll find a whole host of definitions. One of them says this: "any comprehensive list of books within a field."

Different usage of the word "canon". In that sense, it's being used as a synonym for "genre".

While another says this: "A canon, in terms of a fictional universe, is a body of material that is considered to be "genuine" or "official", that can be directly referenced as, or as if it were, material produced by the original author or creator of a series."

There you go.

So confusion reigns in some aspects.

Yes, in Byron's head. The latter definition is the only pertinent one. And defining canon is pretty clear. Even in a universe as muddled as Star Wars, theyve come up with a workable, if imperfect, scheme of different levels of canonicity.

HBJ

[Nebiros]

Did anyone happen to catch what the fuckwit wrote before Byro did his thang? Just curious.

He called me a buck passer. I think he meant I did not want confrontation.

[SandChigger]

Oh, goody: it was a nasty bit about YOU, not ME.

Poor Nebby, taking the brunt of the animosity, wherever you go!

(Buck-passing means "shifting the responsibility for something to someone else". I wouldn't worry about it too much: he/she is obviously an idiot. Suggest that he/she go get bent. )

[inhuien]

...and the two Dune short stories FH wrote in Eye.

Sorry for the drift but two Dune shorts in Eye, The Road to Dune being one what's the other?

[Freakzilla]

...and the two Dune short stories FH wrote in Eye.

Sorry for the drift but two Dune shorts in Eye, The Road to Dune being one what's the other?

Maybe there was just one, my bad. Been a long time since I read Eye.

[inhuien]

No problem, I was just excited at the chance of some real new Dune.

[SandRider]

Note to Merritt - words mean things.
Otherwise, banana boat ding-dong, rapid
medicate relish interdenominational beach
ball, and woolly mammoth fire hose with the
minotaur teeth; oh no, hot dog ...

[Freakzilla]

Note to Merritt - words mean things.
Otherwise, banana boat ding-dong, rapid
medicate relish interdenominational beach
ball, and woolly mammoth fire hose with the
minotaur teeth; oh no, hot dog ...

You quoting KJA?

[Schu]

I like how Byron, instead of arguing my points like I argue his, simply restates his points with every post. You see, when you rephrase something, that makes it somehow magically not incorrect anymore.

[lotek]

this one is funny(about the Dune perfume)

Most people don't know this, but you cannot copyright a book's title. For instance, if I wanted to write a book entitled GONE WITH THE WIND, I could. Of course, it can't have any references or even be similar to the original book, but I could do it. Same thing holds true for things like this that you mentioned.

Same thing holds true for the mcdunes

http://forum.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Nekhrun]

Funniest part of that thread is that Poey is back! He must have a new cartoon to post

[SandChigger]

Oh, come on, Poey's a good kid. He just likes some really shitty books.

[chanilover]

Oh, and here's braintrust Byron Merritt's authoritative statement on "canon" (in response to Schu in the Fragrant Moron's "

What's Chinese for Fragrant Moron?

The one thing I miss about Dungnovels is the conveyor belt of assorted idiots who constantly passed through.

[Nebiros]

Nebiros, think you could get SandChigger to join here??

(EDITED BY THE ALMIGHTY MODERATOR)

This time I did not catch what that idiot said. He/she is so naive...