Interview of Brian Herbert on thetrades.com (15/08/2009)

[SandRider]

what ?

no comments on that site ?

fail.

[SandRider]

There's a small but loud contingent of hardcore Dune fans who seem to react to any addition to the Dune legacy as one might expect fundamentalist religions would react to someone trying to expand the Pentateuch. Was that a surprise, and how did you come to cope with that kind of criticism?

There was a group on the Internet before House Atreides was published -- that was our first novel that came out in 1999 -- and there was a hue and cry before that book was published asserting that we should not write a new novel in the series. Later, after they read the first novel, many of them actually apologized to us in writing. So we appreciate that.

that kinda rang a bell, so I dug back a bit :

(Keith) ...you must develop your own work, become established as an author,before you would ever be asked to work in an established universe. We had this experience with Dune, which was one of the uglier ones. I still kind of shake my head over how unfair they were.

Before House Atreides came out, there was an "uprising" on one of the Dune fan boards about:how dare we do this? Even though Frank Herbert was obviously going to write more Dune books,even though he left copious notes behind, and even though he had asked Brian to write a Dunebook before he died…but these people just thought it was terrible and they got together and theyposted sixty one star reviews of our new book (which wasn't out yet) on Amazon.com. The catchis, the book wasn't even out yet. And the posts would say, "I don't even need to read this book toknow that it sucks."

That's just absurd.

Amazon.com has rules that you can't post unless you've read the book, so we were able to get those removed. But it was disturbing how nasty these people were. The light at the end of thetunnel, or the silver lining or whatever cliché you want to use, is that after House Atreides came out,Brian and I received a bunch of apology letters from these people. So we thought, "Well, that's about as good as we can expect." They said that they felt that we had really captured Dune and had not disgraced Frank Herbert's name and they appreciated what we were doing, even they had been against it in the first place.

a little different, for a minute there, I thought
Brian was copy&pasting Keith's interviews ....

but while reading this old interview,
I ran across this little gem:

Let's talk about Dune now. First off, how did your collaboration with Brian Herbert come
about? You didn't already know him, did you?

No, I didn't know him. But the science fiction community is like a small, tightly-knit dysfunctional family. We all either know each other or have mutual friends. So it's not really hard to get in touch with someone. I was always such a huge Dune fan, and had read all six of his books. Frank's last Dune book was called Chapterhouse Dune and it ends on a cliffhanger. It builds up, and then it just ends. As a Dune fan, I couldn't stand it. I mean, Frank Herbert died, so I couldn't expect him to finish it, but his son Brian was an established science fiction writer. In fact, Frank's last published book, entitled Man of Two Worlds, was co-written with Brian. So I knew that they had worked together and that Brian had obviously followed in his father's footsteps. But after ten years of waiting, I was beginning to lose hope that Brian was going to write the next Dune book that I wanted to read. Finally, through a mutual friend, I sent a letter introducing myself. By this time, I had quite a few credits, some award nominations, and had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books, so that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe and do a good job at it. So I sent him some samples of my books and asked him if he was ever going to write this book, because if he was, that I wanted to read it. And, if he was putting it off, or didn't know what you were going to do the rest of the Dune story, could I help you with it or offer my assistance -- or if you're not going to do it at all, could I do it. The first line of my letter was, "What you just heard was a shot in the dark." Because I had finally convinced myself that I had nothing to lose anyway. If he said no, well that was all there would be to it. But Brian called me alittle later after he received the letter and -- not surprisingly, although I didn't think of it at the time --Brian had many people who had asked to write more Dune books.

feel free to copypasta Keith's own words where-ever
pretards gather & spew their nonsense.

[TheDukester]

They sure get a lot of mileage out of that House Atreides story. And I'm sure it's not been exaggerated at all ...

[Hunchback Jack]

Yeah, the problem I have with it is that they still really think (or at least they *say* that all the anti-nuDune sentiment is from folks who were biased against the books from the beginning, without even reading them.

For myself, by anti-KJA fervor has been building slowly over a long number of years. I didn't really start to object until TBJ, and I didn't really get *angry* until Sandworms. Or the end of Hunters, maybe.

And it's because of the *books*, not my preconceptions. I was completely willing to give the authors the benefit of the doubt going in. They've just screwed up too many times, and taken too many liberties, for me to keep reading them.

HBJ

[SandRider]

The Orthodox Herbertarian Concept of Pre-Hate

can be stated simply :

When I was little boy, I put my pecker in a racoon-trap ... &etc.

this may now be referred to as OH Argument #1

[lotek]

Meh. Again, there's nothing really new there, is there?

Actually that language that Freak quoted pretty much makes Kevin a liar, who has said in the past that they have a whole team of proofers, fact checkers, experts and "Dune PhDs," doesn't it?

[lotek]

is there a ropic on the dune 2010 movie?
I can't find it...

[SandChigger]

is there a ropic on the dune 2010 movie?
I can't find it...

Ahp, happens that there be.

Dune Media > New Dune Movie

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=199" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lotek]

is there a ropic on the dune 2010 movie?
I can't find it...

Ahp, happens that there be.

Dune Media > New Dune Movie

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=199" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cheers!

edit: i did a search but i didn't think of the obvious way, don't you just hate that when it happens...

[SandChigger]

That never happens to me.












(Kidding! )

[lotek]

I have a way with computers

[Freakzilla]

Even if someon of us said they knew the new books would suck before they read them...


THEY WERE RIGHT!

[SadisticCynic]

There's a small but loud contingent of hardcore Dune fans who seem to react to any addition to the Dune legacy as one might expect fundamentalist religions would react to someone trying to expand the Pentateuch. Was that a surprise, and how did you come to cope with that kind of criticism?

There was a group on the Internet before House Atreides was published -- that was our first novel that came out in 1999 -- and there was a hue and cry before that book was published asserting that we should not write a new novel in the series. Later, after they read the first novel, many of them actually apologized to us in writing. So we appreciate that.

that kinda rang a bell, so I dug back a bit :

(Keith) ...you must develop your own work, become established as an author,before you would ever be asked to work in an established universe. We had this experience with Dune, which was one of the uglier ones. I still kind of shake my head over how unfair they were.

Before House Atreides came out, there was an "uprising" on one of the Dune fan boards about:how dare we do this? Even though Frank Herbert was obviously going to write more Dune books,even though he left copious notes behind, and even though he had asked Brian to write a Dunebook before he died…but these people just thought it was terrible and they got together and theyposted sixty one star reviews of our new book (which wasn't out yet) on Amazon.com. The catchis, the book wasn't even out yet. And the posts would say, "I don't even need to read this book toknow that it sucks."

That's just absurd.

Amazon.com has rules that you can't post unless you've read the book, so we were able to get those removed. But it was disturbing how nasty these people were. The light at the end of thetunnel, or the silver lining or whatever cliché you want to use, is that after House Atreides came out,Brian and I received a bunch of apology letters from these people. So we thought, "Well, that's about as good as we can expect." They said that they felt that we had really captured Dune and had not disgraced Frank Herbert's name and they appreciated what we were doing, even they had been against it in the first place.

a little different, for a minute there, I thought
Brian was copy&pasting Keith's interviews ....

but while reading this old interview,
I ran across this little gem:

Let's talk about Dune now. First off, how did your collaboration with Brian Herbert come
about? You didn't already know him, did you?

No, I didn't know him. But the science fiction community is like a small, tightly-knit dysfunctional family. We all either know each other or have mutual friends. So it's not really hard to get in touch with someone. I was always such a huge Dune fan, and had read all six of his books. Frank's last Dune book was called Chapterhouse Dune and it ends on a cliffhanger. It builds up, and then it just ends. As a Dune fan, I couldn't stand it. I mean, Frank Herbert died, so I couldn't expect him to finish it, but his son Brian was an established science fiction writer. In fact, Frank's last published book, entitled Man of Two Worlds, was co-written with Brian. So I knew that they had worked together and that Brian had obviously followed in his father's footsteps. But after ten years of waiting, I was beginning to lose hope that Brian was going to write the next Dune book that I wanted to read. Finally, through a mutual friend, I sent a letter introducing myself. By this time, I had quite a few credits, some award nominations, and had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books,

so that proved not just that I'm a hack,

but that I could write in somebody else's universe and do a good job at it. So I sent him some samples of my books and asked him if he was ever going to write this book, because if he was, that I wanted to read it. And, if he was putting it off, or didn't know what you were going to do the rest of the Dune story, could I help you with it or offer my assistance -- or if you're not going to do it at all, could I do it. The first line of my letter was, "What you just heard was a shot in the dark." Because I had finally convinced myself that I had nothing to lose anyway. If he said no, well that was all there would be to it. But Brian called me alittle later after he received the letter and -- not surprisingly, although I didn't think of it at the time --Brian had many people who had asked to write more Dune books.

feel free to copypasta Keith's own words where-ever
pretards gather & spew their nonsense.

Did he really say that?

[Tleilax Master B]

I'm getting pretty sick and damn tired of hearing that bullshit House Atreides story myself. I doubt it even happened, and if it did, I'm sure it was just a couple of pathetic preeks doing some bandwagon jumping. What about the 100s+ people that have said it was crap every since then? Any apology letters from them? Of course not. No, its pretty telling that they keep referring to the outcries that happened BEFORE the first book came out but don't address the huge outcry after all of these steamers started hitting the markets. The Legends series in particular really started the worst of the downward spiral. Entire websites are devoted to hammering these knuckleheads, and yet we are still a "small but loud contingent" of naysayers.

Soon after these two goons are pushing up daisies their work will be completely forgotten, never to be mentioned with the likes of F. Herbert, Asimov, Heinlein, etc. And that makes me feel happy inside

[SandRider]

re: "I'm a hack"

started to say something about that yesterday, lost interest.

Duke had that line as a sig for awhile.

That is the exact copypasta from the interview, so that's what was printed.
Well, not "printed" per se, I think this was more web-post than magazine, don't know.

anyway, I've thought about it - it obvious what Keith was trying to say, and perhaps
that's exactly what he said - this seems to be a real interview, maybe by phone, maybe
in person and not an email exchange - so I would think the interviewer would transcribe
the conversation as it occured.

but I can't think of any combination of english words that would express his thought -

"proved not just that I'm a hack"
"proved that I'm not just a hack"
"just proved that I'm not a hack" ? maybe that was it.

anyway, this guy's a professional writer,
whose job it is to communicate ideas.
fail.

[TheDukester]

"proved that I'm not just a hack"

This would be my guess. It sounds better spoken; I'm guessing he got his point across fairly well at the time.

But, yes, it's a fail ... especially for such a great oral story-teller, as he's so found of pointing out.

[SandChigger]

You mean the interview I have quoted in my sig, right?

It invariably comes up (or used to) whenever you google "Kevin J. Anderson is a hack".

What he meant to say was "...that proved not just that I'm NOT a hack...."

[smugetsu]

Q: Are you optimistic about Peter Berg’s upcoming adaptation?
A: Kevin and I are technical advisors on it. We sat in with them for a meeting about the script, and we gave them a lot of information and our feelings about the need for authenticity. They want to do a classic interpretation of the novel, and it would follow the plot more carefully. But it’s such a huge canvas. And so we’re in the script-writing phase right now, and we’re hopeful it gets the green-light beyond that. And if the movie does well, then there will be additional Dune movies and perhaps some TV specials and that kind of thing.

For the love of God and all that is holy, if they want to do a classic interpretation of the novel, LET THEM DO IT. Don't say stupid shit like, "weeelllll, it's a big canvas, so..."

YOU didn't write Dune. Don't go back and fuck it up with a movie that's a poor reflection on Frank Herbert's work.

[Hunchback Jack]

I'm seriously waiting for the Dune movie novelization by BH and KJA. It's just the kind of thing they would try to get away with.

HBJ

[SandChigger]

But of course. What better way to actually manage to rewrite the original!

The title will look something like


DUNE
by Brian Herbert & Kevin J. Anderson
The novelization of the movie based on the best-selling science-fiction classic
by Frank Herbert

[lotek]

I'm seriously waiting for the Dune movie novelization by BH and KJA. It's just the kind of thing they would try to get away with.

HBJ

OMG Nooooooo!

They will do it you can bet anything on it...

[TheDukester]

Oh, I'll bet they can hardly wait to do the novelization.

After all, it will be their big chance to actually write DUNE. There will be all sorts of psychological subtext, too: for Bobo, it's another chance to strike back at his father; for Keith, he'll finally get to say that he wrote DUNE.

For me: there won't be a single product on earth that I would have less chance of buying.

[Ampoliros]

When they do the novelization of the film, i'll bring back the barbecue thread.

[trang]

I'm seriously waiting for the Dune movie novelization by BH and KJA. It's just the kind of thing they would try to get away with.

HBJ

I am capable of some of the most evil of thoughts, but It never even dawned on me that this idea would pop into anyones head. My heart sank to my feet when I read your post, even the suggestion terrifies me to death.

A rerelease of FH's Dune surely, but not even the corpse raping duo would stoop to that low of a blow??

If they even fucking mention the idea of the "trivialization" version to match this abortion to be of a movie, I will gladly volunteer to slap the ass's of horse's that they are tied to for the draw and quartering!!

GOD EMPEROR PLEASE STRIKE THIS IDEA FROM MEMORY!!! THEY'RE COULD BE NO HIGHER LITERARY CRIME AGAINST DUNE!!! SURELY EVEN THIS TRAVESTY WOULD AWAKEN THE GHOST OF FRANK SO HE COULD WALK ACROSS THEY'RE SOULS AND TELL THEM " FAR ENOUGH FART BLOCKERS FAR ENOUGH"

Paul turned into luke skywalker and the force by berg is gonna be bad enough, but for these two idiots to try and "novelize" bergs Dune nightmare and pass it off as a reimagine or fuck since its a nightmare why dont we just go get Tim "mr undead" Burton and have him chime in on the movie, he would have the Fremen looking like dried out hollow ghouls ... jesus now im doing it...

Im gonna close my eyes and try and purge these terrible thoughts from my mind.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Freakzilla]

Perish the thought!