Paul of Dune: Self-Referential Wank

Frybread · Post by **Frybread** » 26 Oct 2008 14:23

Mandy wrote:I don't mind King doing it to his own universe... it's his!

That's a good point. King decided to mess up his own universe. In Dune, we have the Hacks Twain who feel the need to do the same.

TheDukester · Post by **TheDukester** » 26 Oct 2008 14:29

That's a fair point.

In some ways, it was even more discouraging to see King crap all over something that had such potential ... I mean, there's no one else to possibly blame.

But, at the end of the day, it is his creation. And when you're that big of a seller, you can certainly do what you want.

Hey, maybe The Hack and The Sidekick will get the green light to write a Dark Tower 8! That would be teh aw3s0mZZ!!l!l!

Laphtiya · Post by **Laphtiya** » 26 Oct 2008 14:36

Thats true, King messing up his own universe is fine. It is HIS after all, unlike the Dune universe. But doing back to that argument that "all texts are in-universe" I can see how the argument could stand, but that is just a pathetic excuse for people who cannot come to terms with the fact that these books do not stand up to the level of the originals. Blaming your mistakes on a fictional character is just pathetic, but even if they are in-universe texts. It still doesn't cover every mistake that they knew for a fact (or spice extending your life span to only 200 not 400, a real gripe I have with these new hacks). Dune was a very in depth and thought provoking series, yet these books have a habbit of explaining every single detail.

I mean even me with my Fan fiction that I am writing, my goal isn't to try and make it like Frank Herberts books, it is to not make them like the hack twins.

Hunchback Jack · Post by **Hunchback Jack** » 26 Oct 2008 23:39

I don't have a problem with King making cross-references in his books - I like it. It was the "all my references to DT stuff in non-DT books don't count, because they were fiction written by an author *in* the DT universe - get it?" twist that didn't impress me.

But yes, it makes a *huge* difference that it's his own work that he's undermining. The hacks twain doing it to FH is a million times worse.

HBJ

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 05 Nov 2008 19:20

The Hack from Hell in PoD on p.449 wrote:Arrakis: Men saw great danger there, and great opportunity.
—the PRINCESS IRULAN, entry in Paul of Dune

So...

I've been looking through the book for this thing since starting this thread but still haven't found it anywhere.

And then this morning while I was getting ready to leave it hit me: what if this piece of shit really is self-referential? I mean, if completely and fully, it refers to itself?

Replace "entry" in the above with "epigraph" if you don't get what I'm getting at.

Is Kevin that clever, to make the epigraph itself the "entry" referred to in the epigraph?

What do you think? Am I grasping for straws?

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 05 Nov 2008 19:22

I see what you're saying, and no, Kevin is not that clever. I can't see him having thought beyond the idea that it would be "neat" to say that Irulan also wrote a book by the same title.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 05 Nov 2008 19:27

If that's all it is, do you think he would go to the trouble to insert the line somewhere in the book? (Think I'm wasting my time looking for it, in other words?) Or will it be just another minor detail he overlooked? (And will retcon later, maybe, by saying the line was included in a later edition.

)

Trying to second-guess a shithead gets to be a bit tiring after a while....

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 05 Nov 2008 19:28

I doubt the line would be in the book. Even that is beyond his childlike wit.

Now that I've said that you'll go find it and prove me an ass.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 05 Nov 2008 19:30

I don't think it's there, either, just between us.

Oops.

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 05 Nov 2008 21:10

Thing wrote:I see what you're saying, and no, Kevin is not that clever.

I have no idea what you're saying, but no, Kevin is not that clever.

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 06 Nov 2008 11:51

Freak will appreciate this:

Obama's spirit of cooperation and love of our fellow Americans means that we should be more tolerant of KJA!

I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DO THIS!!!!! WHY DIDN'T YOU WARN US EARLIER FREAK!

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 06 Nov 2008 12:02

Barak also says he'll talk with America's enemies ...

How about it, Kevin ?

As an unrepentant Talifan & Jihadist-on-your-ass,
I'd like to buy you a beer & negotiate .....

TheDukester · Post by **TheDukester** » 06 Nov 2008 12:29

You can't negotiate with or reason with hacks. Appeasement is not the answer; just ask Neville Chamberlain.

No, I'm afraid this will come down to actual warfare. That's right: we need to invade Colorado.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 06 Nov 2008 12:44

Ampoliros wrote:Freak will appreciate this:

Obama's spirit of cooperation and love of our fellow Americans means that we should be more tolerant of KJA!

I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DO THIS!!!!! WHY DIDN'T YOU WARN US EARLIER FREAK!

Tollerance is good, in moderation.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 06 Nov 2008 17:35

TheDukester wrote:No, I'm afraid this will come down to actual warfare. That's right: we need to invade Colorado.

Nah, not the whole state.

We just need a surgical strike to take out a northern suburb of Denver.

Or a little town a few miles south.

(Google phone book results are inconclusive, but surprising.

)

TheDukester · Post by **TheDukester** » 06 Nov 2008 17:37

Where's he from? I know the area pretty well.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 06 Nov 2008 19:12

Google this:

Code: Select all

"Kevin J. Anderson" Colorado

There are older references to a town south of Denver called Monument.

In a blawg post a while back, he mentioned going to "Denvention" (or some such shit) and touring NORAD at Cheyenne Mountain and then having a bunch of people back to the house for a bahbee.

When I joked before about praying for a "(space) boulder for Boulder", I really had no idea Boulder and Denver were that close.

Post by **Omphalos** » 06 Nov 2008 20:06

Maybe he bought his own hiking preserve south of his mansion?