Paul of Dune Notes

Mr. Teg · Post by **Mr. Teg** » 26 Sep 2008 02:16

The following is an exerpt from the latest "review" of Paul of Dune that was posted on dumbnovels and supported by Ole'Dune Pussy...

Drawing on Frank Herbert¹s massive body of notes, the coauthors of the new Dune series (Dune: The Battle of Corrin; The Road to Dune; Hunters of Dune) continue their expansion and illumination of the unexplored pieces of one of the genre¹s most significant and powerful stories.

Guess the reviews sucked (don't exist) so their falling back on the "notes" card...

Laphtiya · Post by **Laphtiya** » 26 Sep 2008 04:00

Mr. Teg wrote:The following is an exerpt from the latest "review" of Paul of Dune that was posted on dumbnovels and supported by Ole'Dune Pussy...

Drawing on Frank Herbert¹s massive body of notes, the coauthors of the new Dune series (Dune: The Battle of Corrin; The Road to Dune; Hunters of Dune) continue their expansion and illumination of the unexplored pieces of one of the genre¹s most significant and powerful stories.
Guess the reviews sucked (don't exist) so their falling back on the "notes" card...

The notes thing is getting old now. With the amount of so called Notes that FH left he could have easily written Dune 7. Think about it, he has enough notes for these two prats to write 9 terrible books. On the other hand, yes he would have made some notes and background texts on characters, the universe he set it in, some history more than likely about the Jihad and maybe the developments of the characters between books. But as we know and can tell just by reading these notes are sketchy at best. It would amuse me however that the WERE actually using notes and they were actually ACCURATE to those notes. HOWEVER these notes that FH wrote were revised and changed and he wrote Dune meaning that these notes are completely irrelivant and wrong. It would just be sweet irony

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 26 Sep 2008 06:57

Amazing how those "notes" can expand or contract from perhaps 15 pages to 1,500 in the course of one solicitation for a new book

Here's a "note" for the HLP: stop writing shitty Dune books.

Purge · Post by **Purge** » 26 Sep 2008 10:25

Amazing how those "notes" can expand or contract from perhaps 15 pages to 1,500 in the course of one solicitation for a new book

Knowing Kevin's love of hyperbole and super-things I wouldn't be surprised if his re-telling in five years consists of a 3,000 page outline whose pages are made out of indestructable magma that shoots lasers at anyone who attempts to read it.

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 26 Sep 2008 10:42

So now the notes give info on Paul of Dune? How does this 'reviewer' know this? If people can get paid to give positive reviews to books they haven't read, can I get paid to give negative reviews to books I have?

Frybread · Post by **Frybread** » 26 Sep 2008 10:56

So now they're saying FH had notes for PoD. Pretty soon they will say they have found notes that detail a Star Wars-Dune crossover in which Jedi and the super-KH Duncan Idaho team up to fight the Sith and their super cyborgs.

DuneFishUK · Post by **DuneFishUK** » 26 Sep 2008 12:16

I'm willing to believe FH left a load of notes detailing the years between Dune and Dune Messiah - he used them to write Dune Messiah.

TheDukester · Post by **TheDukester** » 26 Sep 2008 12:28

The "massive body of notes" thing sort of upsets me, too, but I think there's a good chance it's pretty meaningless overall.

As we've established, Library Journal is not a literary magazine. Its function is to solicit interest in dozens (hundreds?) of new books every month. I'd guess that much of their copy is written pretty quickly and without much concern for 100-percent accuracy. LJ needs to get the gist correct; it doesn't, for example, need to know the entire history of the Dune series just to write a short blurb.

What I think probably happened here is that the writer of that blurb was informed — either by the HLP, through some research, or from sources unknown — that FH had left behind some "notes." During the editorial process, that got turned into "massive body of notes," either because it sounds more impressive or else through some misleading information provided by the HLP.

Either way, it's not that important. It's just some breathless hyperbole being used as part of a sales pitch. It's upsetting to those of us who know better — and who are sick of seeing the HLP and Kevvie change the "notes" story as it suits them — but, ultimately, it's pretty meaningless.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 26 Sep 2008 18:29

And let's not get too excited and jump overboard, shall we?

They've been saying there were thousands of pages of notes in those cardboard boxes found in Brian's garage attic for as long as I've been paying attention to anything they've said.

They have not claimed that FH left notes (or an outline or anything similar) for Paul of Dune or any of these "Heroes" books.

The Hacks Twain aren't responsible for what other idiots write. (You have to be careful even when someone else gives direct quotes.) There's more than enough to hang them from their nubby bits just from what they write and say in (recorded) interviews.

Mr. Teg · Post by **Mr. Teg** » 26 Sep 2008 18:52

SandChigger wrote: The Hacks Twain aren't responsible for what other idiots write. (You have to be careful even when someone else gives direct quotes.) There's more than enough to hang them from their nubby bits just from what they write and say in (recorded) interviews.

They're trying to have it both ways (and endorsed by Ol'Doon Pussy)..."No, we're not claiming we are using notes directly intended for a Paul of Dune book, but we're using Frank's notes to write the book (otherwords, you should buy this book and not judge them negatively because it's all based on what Frank created...).

Didn't know Frank was into battle unicorns

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 26 Sep 2008 20:54

Battle unicorns and...Ultra-Super Precocious Toddlers.

Rakis · Post by **Rakis** » 26 Sep 2008 23:23

Purge wrote:
Amazing how those "notes" can expand or contract from perhaps 15 pages to 1,500 in the course of one solicitation for a new book
Knowing Kevin's love of hyperbole and super-things I wouldn't be surprised if his re-telling in five years consists of a 3,000 page outline whose pages are made out of indestructable magma that shoots lasers at anyone who attempts to read it.

Well maybe not, but i would not be surprise if they say that FH had a computer, but Brian never mentionned it, because he's afraid of them...because sometimes they crash, you know, like planes...

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 27 Sep 2008 01:05

SandChigger wrote:

Battle unicorns and...Ultra-Super Precocious Toddlers.

I FUCKING HATE THAT LITTLE TODDLER BITCH!

I'm sorry but the second she ducked under that table any Fremen would have calmly walked over and slit her throat. End of Story. If its that damn easy to get past Paul's security he wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds as Emperor.

I can almost see KJA's defense: "but she's a little girl, they wouldn't see her as a threat or a weapon" Bullshit, Alia looks like a 'little girl' but Paul would be fooled for a nanosecond by this. EDIT: Actually, I'm pretty sure Stilgar would have jumped across the table and broken her neck the second she pulled that "cut the vegtable with a dull blade to send it flying trick". Even kids know the reason to do that is to send it flying, not to actually try and cut it.

"But it's cute that she plays under the table, all kids do that!"

At a royal dinner function? When your Father's loyalty is very much in question? When your enemy's own little sister is the second most powerful being in the room, and actually has a back story to explain why?

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 27 Sep 2008 01:09

Rakis wrote:
Purge wrote:
Amazing how those "notes" can expand or contract from perhaps 15 pages to 1,500 in the course of one solicitation for a new book
Knowing Kevin's love of hyperbole and super-things I wouldn't be surprised if his re-telling in five years consists of a 3,000 page outline whose pages are made out of indestructable magma that shoots lasers at anyone who attempts to read it.

Well maybe not, but i would not be surprise if they say that FH had a computer, but Brian never mentionned it, because he's afraid of them...because sometimes they crash, you know, like planes...

This reminds me of a point I meant to bring up long ago. Is there any mention of Frank using a computer? The picture of him writing as a young man shows him of course using a typewriter. I'm just thinking this because I find it highly uncharacteristic of him to use a computer to write with, especially considering the quality of word processors in the 80's.

The point is this: WHY IS HIS OUTLINE ON COMPUTER DISKS. TWO DISKS. Even back then a document file didn't fill to 5 1/2 inch disks unless it was huge. I doubt Frank put most of his notes on computer.

It's possible, just not plausible.

Mr. Teg · Post by **Mr. Teg** » 27 Sep 2008 04:35

Ampoliros wrote:
Rakis wrote:
Purge wrote:
Amazing how those "notes" can expand or contract from perhaps 15 pages to 1,500 in the course of one solicitation for a new book
Knowing Kevin's love of hyperbole and super-things I wouldn't be surprised if his re-telling in five years consists of a 3,000 page outline whose pages are made out of indestructable magma that shoots lasers at anyone who attempts to read it.

Well maybe not, but i would not be surprise if they say that FH had a computer, but Brian never mentionned it, because he's afraid of them...because sometimes they crash, you know, like planes...
This reminds me of a point I meant to bring up long ago. Is there any mention of Frank using a computer? The picture of him writing as a young man shows him of course using a typewriter. I'm just thinking this because I find it highly uncharacteristic of him to use a computer to write with, especially considering the quality of word processors in the 80's.

The point is this: WHY IS HIS OUTLINE ON COMPUTER DISKS. TWO DISKS. Even back then a document file didn't fill to 5 1/2 inch disks unless it was huge. I doubt Frank put most of his notes on computer.

It's possible, just not plausible.

Frank did write a book on computers.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 27 Sep 2008 07:37

Yeah. Someone gave me a copy of it not too long ago, too!

I'm fairly certain I've also seen mention of FH using a computer in Dreamer of Dune.

In fact, IIRC Brian writes that he advised his father to keep backups and copies of his files. (He was evidently still in insurance salesman mode at the time.

)

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 27 Sep 2008 11:35

that answers my question, I figured the answer was pretty simple, I just wanted to make sure the issue had been addressed.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 27 Sep 2008 12:05

He may have edited his work on a word processor but I believe much of his actual work was done oraly. FH said Dune was written to be read aloud.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 27 Sep 2008 12:20

Um...you mean he wrote things down that sounded "right" when written down?

Saying he did his work "orally" makes it sound like he recorded things like Kevin does.

(Kevin manages some impressive feats orally, no? He seems to be very good with his mouth. All those Saga books, for instance.

)

Post by **Freakzilla** » 27 Sep 2008 12:38

KJA dictates, FH composed.

Anathema · Post by **Anathema** » 27 Sep 2008 12:44

I remember a youtube video in wich KJA says that he wants to explain why Paul is such a sad tyrant in Dune Messiah because, according to him, Paul was just an optimistic teenager at the end of Dune. It pissed me off immensely then.

Chigger (or anyone else who's reading PoD), can you give me some quotes from the new "book" that illustrate this? I'd like to start a thread about it on DN but I don't want any "don't criticize a book you haven't read" crap.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 27 Sep 2008 13:35

I'll see what I can dig up.

(I'll be copying and scanning the sucker as soon as I get back to Japan and in the office the week after next. That should make this sort of thing a lot easier. Got a date with Kevin in Dayton first, though.

)

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 27 Sep 2008 15:11

We're talking about the man who explains the most psychologically interesting character in all of comic history as "a rich guy with a lot of toys".

I agree, before KJA gets his panties in a bunch, he should realize that Frank didn't hike around with a tape recorder. He visualized the scene and reported the pertinent facts. He edited his story. I like "composed", that works. Frank composed Dune.

KJA filled out a couple Dune and Star Wars Mad-libs from the 1984 movies and just hit remix. Maybe, just maybe, he filtered it through Brian's "Concordance"

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