Two copies of Sandworms!

orald · Post by **orald** » 29 Jun 2008 15:01

But I said "I grow desperate", not "I despair".

Is "grow desperate" not a good usage for this anymore?

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » 29 Jun 2008 15:12

orald wrote:But I said "I grow desperate", not "I despair".

Is "grow desperate" not a good usage for this anymore?

It never was?

orald · Post by **orald** » 29 Jun 2008 15:25

So...why do these articles use it?

http://www.mcall.com/business/local/out ... 6187.story

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/Jun/2 ... -the-dole/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00975.html

Are you guys trying to mess with me?

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » 29 Jun 2008 15:50

Well. That's different.

You said "I grow desperate of..."

Those say "Grow desperate (other preposition)"

Totally different meanings. They're using definition 2 on your list, you're using the one you cited. They're using an adjective, you're using a noun.

orald · Post by **orald** » 29 Jun 2008 16:17

How is it a noun? And entry #8 is still in the adj' area, only entry #9("Obsolete. a desperado.") is listed under "noun".

I still can't see how it's a noun. Is it the same as "I grow tall"?

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » 29 Jun 2008 16:47

Ugh. This is getting ridiculous. Isn't it enough that two native English speakers(one of them an English professor, at that) know that it's incorrect usage?

I'm not sure exactly why, it may just be idiom, but I'm sure it's not the correct usage. If I could explain it, I would...

SC? Feel like coming to the rescue on this one?

orald wrote:I still can't see how it's a noun. Is it the same as "I grow tall"?

No, in that case, tall is an adjective modifying "I."

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » 29 Jun 2008 17:17

I grow desperate of our political-expert friend.

I think it's just the way you used the word that doesn't quite fit.. maybe it's the word "of" after desperate, it's missing something. I am not a linguist so I don't know what the word that's missing would be called.

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » 29 Jun 2008 18:20

Mandy wrote:I grow desperate of our political-expert friend.

I think it's just the way you used the word that doesn't quite fit.. maybe it's the word "of" after desperate, it's missing something. I am not a linguist so I don't know what the word that's missing would be called.

/agree

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 29 Jun 2008 18:39

Oh good Dur...you go to sleep for a few hours and Lingo World turns into Bizarro World. WTF?

Ahem. I not only am a linguist...I could also play one on TV!

But I grow weary of this discussion.

Grow here is intransitive, used as an inchoative copula (linking verb), equivalent to "am becoming". Weary is a predicate adjective; it attributes, via the verb, a characteristic or condition to the subject.

Now, back to what Orald wrote. The problem is the collocation (usage together with) of desperate and of. Googling with quotes turns up only 68,000 hits, including this:

I am desperate of obtaining her. From Shakespeare. Note, though, that the phrase is followed by a gerund (verbal noun) phrase, so even this is not the same.

Orald, I would never dream of lecturing you on Hebrew grammar. When I tell you some English usage is "less than happy", please believe me. I don't pretend to be fluent in every dialect of the language or familiar with the intricacies of usage of every single word ever used, but if I'm teasing or having you on, I'll try to make it obvious. "I despair of our young Indonesian friend" is what I think you wanted to say.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 29 Jun 2008 19:29

SandChigger wrote:"I despair of our young Indonesian friend" is what I think you wanted to say.

It still doesn't sound right and NOBODY talks like that.

Dune Nerd · Post by **Dune Nerd** » 29 Jun 2008 21:12

Freakzilla wrote:
Dune Nerd wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Xtian = Christian.

Brown Sugar = Lovin' from a black person.
Brown or Black?
Either.

ok

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 29 Jun 2008 22:40

Freakzilla wrote:
SandChigger wrote:"I despair of our young Indonesian friend" is what I think you wanted to say.
It still doesn't sound right and NOBODY talks like that.

I despair of our Good Admin ever becoming conversant with varieties of the vernacular other than Southuhn Genteel.

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » 30 Jun 2008 00:19

Oh, I know that one! It's linguist elitist alliterationist!

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 30 Jun 2008 01:18

You're drunk, aren't you?

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » 30 Jun 2008 01:40

I'm not nearly as creative when I'm drunk.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 30 Jun 2008 02:19

You mean in general or in this case?

'Cause I'm thinking you still could be drunk.

(Be careful, btw. Inner Goth Girl has got you on her list, evidently.

)

Nebiros · Post by **Nebiros** » 30 Jun 2008 02:42

Well I was talking about a badly written book called 'Sandworms of Dune' but for some reason the subject has changed to a debate about grammar.

Well don't let me stop you. But you say things like desperate while referring to me. Now what do you mean? Too much political commentry or are you asking for more? Or perhaps you would like some more of my fanfic.

orald · Post by **orald** » 30 Jun 2008 04:13

We want more of your brown sugar.

Speaking of which, I was at the...not a dentist per-se(sp?), but the one a rank lower(?) that only thoroughly cleans your teeth, she was too hot to hide behind the mask. I want some brown sugar from her, please.

Admitedly, it was hard to dwell on that with the pain, discomfort and all.

And I was asking for further elaboration on the "desperate of" matter because I've never heard it's a bad usage...is it a well known thing or do only experts(or well versed persons) know it?

inhuien · Post by **inhuien** » 30 Jun 2008 06:07

SandChigger wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
SandChigger wrote:"I despair of our young Indonesian friend" is what I think you wanted to say.
It still doesn't sound right and NOBODY talks like that.

I despair of our Good Admin ever becoming conversant with varieties of the vernacular other than Southuhn Genteel.

Indeed, Victoriana is in rude health. Now forgive me as I must repair to my antechamber to retire.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 30 Jun 2008 08:14

SandChigger wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
SandChigger wrote:"I despair of our young Indonesian friend" is what I think you wanted to say.
It still doesn't sound right and NOBODY talks like that.

I despair of our Good Admin ever becoming conversant with varieties of the vernacular other than Southuhn Genteel.

I've heard that the proper Southern dialect is closer to the original English of the colonists than that of the Northern (or Western) states.

Is that true?

Nekhrun · Post by **Nekhrun** » 30 Jun 2008 08:34

Nebiros wrote:Too much political commentry or are you asking for more? Or perhaps you would like some more of my fanfic.

Yes, where is that already? You haven't added anything in quite some time.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 30 Jun 2008 19:49

Freakzilla wrote:I've heard that the proper Southern dialect is closer to the original English of the colonists than that of the Northern (or Western) states.

Is that true?

I haven't seen that specific claim myself that I can recall. I think there's a bit of a loon somewhere claiming that Appalachian hillbilly-speak is closer to the original form than other varieties. (Remember, too, that different colonies were settled by different mixes of the dialectal groups in England, so there wasn't one "original Colonial American dialect".)

While colonial varieties generally tend to be more conservative, the language has changed everywhere. Places where there was more population exchange with/influx from England shared more of the changes occurring there (like r-dropping in the Northeast). If you pronounce your final r's, Freak, you're OK.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 30 Jun 2008 20:05

orald wrote:And I was asking for further elaboration on the "desperate of" matter because I've never heard it's a bad usage...is it a well known thing or do only experts(or well versed persons) know it?

More important, though, how often have you actually heard or seen it used as you did?

Were you maybe taught it in school? I know the Japanese English teachers burden students with a lot of old meanings and usage rules that we have to break them from using. (Example: "for" as a conjunction meaning "because"; comes up almost every year. I tell my students to recognize it, in case they come across it in older texts, but under no circumstances to use it in their own writing.)

Nebiros wrote: Well I was talking about a badly written book called 'Sandworms of Dune' but for some reason the subject has changed to a debate about grammar.

Oh, Willy, I expected something more than this from a drama queen like you. You're just not trying!

But I remember that you also are quite adverse to being told that your English is flawed, and prefer to believe the grammar checker in Word over native speakers of the language you're writing in.

That always amused me to no end.

Well don't let me stop you. But you say things like desperate while referring to me. Now what do you mean? Too much political commentry or are you asking for more? Or perhaps you would like some more of my fanfic.

I'm sorry, were you engaging in political commentary again? I must have missed it.

Yes, let's have some more of your fanfic! Oh...too bad, there's no place for it here. Maybe over on Dune Novels, then. They're ALL ABOUT FANFIC these days, you know.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 30 Jun 2008 20:06

I think I pronounce all the letters I'm supposed to. I have a bit of an accent but I'm originally from New Orleans so it's not like the rednecks around here.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 30 Jun 2008 20:16

Wanna have some fun?

Can you record sound with your computer? Read the following into a .wav or .mp3 file and send it to me:

A beginning is the time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct.

We could have a "Voices of the OH Jihad" page somewhere...URL passed only to the Chosen.