jessica's ordeal...

[distrans]

she had to have know she was pregnant

why did she agree it was so import to threaten alia?

[Serkanner]

she had to have know she was pregnant

why did she agree it was so import to threaten alia?

She knew she was pregnant. She didn't know what effect taking the water of life would have on the fetus.

[georgiedenbro]

She knew she was pregnant. She didn't know what effect taking the water of life would have on the fetus.

Hm, I'm not even 100% convinced of this. It's unclear whether the BG knowledge of abomination came from pre-born RM's happening before, or whether it was just negligent BG who spent too much time on OM safari. But even if Jessica knew for sure what would happen I would tend to think she'd have done it anyhow. She was playing the Fremen from the word go, and she knew that any misstep, including failing to become their new sayyadina, would result in the death of her family and the end of the Atreides, to say nothing of losing the maybe-KH. I think a calculated risk to her daughter would have been well within the bounds of her mission statement (to carry out the plan seeded by the missionaria).

[Serkanner]

She knew she was pregnant. She didn't know what effect taking the water of life would have on the fetus.

Hm, I'm not even 100% convinced of this. It's unclear whether the BG knowledge of abomination came from pre-born RM's happening before, or whether it was just negligent BG who spent too much time on OM safari. But even if Jessica knew for sure what would happen I would tend to think she'd have done it anyhow. She was playing the Fremen from the word go, and she knew that any misstep, including failing to become their new sayyadina, would result in the death of her family and the end of the Atreides, to say nothing of losing the maybe-KH. I think a calculated risk to her daughter would have been well within the bounds of her mission statement (to carry out the plan seeded by the missionaria).

Jessica knew there was risk, but not what the risk was:

"Has he seen this moment in time? Jessica wondered. She rested a hand on her abdomen, thinking of the unborn daughter there, asking herself: Do I have the right to risk us both?"

"This is hallucination, Jessica told herself. "You know better than that," the inward image said. "Swiftly now, do not fight me. There isn't much time. We . . . " There came a long pause, then; "You should've told us you were pregnant!" Jessica found the voice that talked within the mutual awareness. "Why?"
"This changes both of you! Holy Mother, what have we done?"

With her "why?" Jessica tells us she didn't know what the water of life would do to the fetus; she actually didn't know what the water of life was at all until she swallowed it.

""You must drink it now," Chani said. There's no turning back, Jessica reminded herself. But nothing in all her Bene Gesserit training came into her mind to help her through this instant. What is it? Jessica asked, herself. Liquor? A drug?"

[georgiedenbro]

Interesting, Serkanner. But that actually raises more questions than it answers. I may have to focus on this bit next time I read the book (I don't really care for reading chapters out of order). If Jessica has no idea (a) what she's about to drink, and (b) what this ritual entails, then does that mean she also has no idea she's about to become a RM? And if that is true, then is it normal for the BG to be inducted into RM-hood as a surprise, where they don't even know they're about to be tested? Or did Ramallo mistakenly assume Jessica knew, which implies that Mohiam improperly trained Jessica? Recall that Jessica was supposedly an adept of the Missionaria, meaning whatever their myths and setups were supposed to require, Jessica would be best equipped to wade into that and make use of it. So if she of all people had no idea that semi-wild RM's existed and were creating new RM's using spice liquor (and perhaps using other substances on other worlds), then either Mohiam herself was ignorant of all this, or else Jessica was left out of the loop.

If I'm going to go into head canon territory I guess it would make sense that after bearing a son the BG would just be done with Jessica, and after that she would receive no help. And according to my theory about the grand plan, I expect the BG were maybe planning to get rid of Jessica anyhow, and wouldn't have needed her to be equipped for anything.

What I'll have to focus on in my next read is just how in over her head Jessica really is on trying to manipulate the Fremen with their own beliefs. At a certain point I guess she'd have to just fake it to get through certain encounters (like she does with Mapes), which might result in her agreeing to things (like this ritual) without having a clue what it means. Surprise, you're going to be a RM! (or die trying). So if that's what it was, then yeah, she'd have had no idea she was putting Alia in jeopardy because she had no idea she was going to undergo the awakening, because no one told her; and no told her because if she's the mother of The One then no one should have to tell her. So double bluff, where no one tells anyone anything, and each assumes the other knows stuff or else.

Serkanner, is this your read on the situation as well?

[Cpt. Aramsham]

The best information we have about the relationship between the Fremen and Bene Gesserit is in Appendix III:

But almost immediately there were reports of a new religious leader among the Fremen, a man called Muad'Dib, who again was hailed as "the voice from the outer world." The reports stated clearly that he was accompanied by a new Reverend Mother of the Sayyadina Rite "who is the woman who bore him." Records available to the Bene Gesserit stated in plain terms that the Fremen legends of the Prophet contained these words: "He shall be born of a Bene Gesserit witch."

(It may be argued here that the Bene Gesserit sent their Missionaria Protectiva onto Arrakis centuries earlier to implant something like this legend as safeguard should any members of the school be trapped there and require sanctuary, and that this legend of "the voice from the outer world" was properly to be ignored because it appeared to be the standard Bene Gesserit ruse. But this would be true only if you granted that the Bene Gesserit were correct in ignoring the other clues about Paul-Muad'Dib.)

So the Sisterhood have reports of Fremen "Reverend Mothers," but does not appear to be aware that they are "real" Reverend Mothers, not just local priestesses who have borrowed the name from the Missionaria Protectiva. Jessica certainly is not—there are numerous passages that make that clear:

In the sudden hush, Stilgar bowed to her. "Sayyadina," he said. "If the Shai-hulud grant, then you may yet pass within to become a Reverend Mother."

Pass within, she thought. An odd way of putting it. But the rest of it fitted into the cant well enough. And she felt a cynical bitterness at what she had done. Our Missionaria Protectiva seldom fails. A place was prepared for us in this wilderness. The prayer of the salat has carved out our hiding place. Now … I must play the part of Auliya, the Friend of God … Sayyadina to rogue peoples who've been so heavily imprinted with our Bene Gesserit soothsay they even call their chief priestesses Reverend Mothers.

And there is nothing normal about the process by which she becomes a Reverend Mother.

BTW, where do you get the idea that Jessica is a MP adept? The Missionaria Protectiva are depicted as a separate, rather independent branch of the Sisterhood, and their adepts are missionaries and "Manipulators of Religions," while Jessica was always intended to be a concubine and has spent her entire career in that role. She has enough knowledge to recognize and take advantage of standard MP "cant," but this appears to be very basic BG training.

To answer the original question:

Jessica felt herself torn between duty to her unborn child and duty to Paul. For Paul, she knew, she should take that spout and drink of the sack's contents, but as she bent to the proffered spout, her senses told her its peril.

[georgiedenbro]

So the Sisterhood have reports of Fremen "Reverend Mothers," but does not appear to be aware that they are "real" Reverend Mothers, not just local priestesses who have borrowed the name from the Missionaria Protectiva.

Hm, that quote doesn't seem to be as clear to me as you make it out. I think it's entirely possible it means the BG do know they are real RM's, but are just marvelling that they even call them Reverend Mothers rather than some local name. In other words, not only do they live according to the Missionaria's mystique, but even use the BG terms as well. That doesn't really address directly whether they know whether the priestesses are awakened or not.

Jessica certainly is not—there are numerous passages that make that clear:

In the sudden hush, Stilgar bowed to her. "Sayyadina," he said. "If the Shai-hulud grant, then you may yet pass within to become a Reverend Mother."

Pass within, she thought. An odd way of putting it. But the rest of it fitted into the cant well enough.

I dunno. This passage makes it sound like she knows what "pass within" means, and it's left ambiguous whether she thinks they are using a metaphor piece of jargon, or whether they actually mean business.

BTW, where do you get the idea that Jessica is a MP adept? The Missionaria Protectiva are depicted as a separate, rather independent branch of the Sisterhood, and their adepts are missionaries and "Manipulators of Religions," while Jessica was always intended to be a concubine and has spent her entire career in that role. She has enough knowledge to recognize and take advantage of standard MP "cant," but this appears to be very basic BG training.

You could be right. She does often refer to the MP as "they", so obviously she's not an agent being sent to other planets to lay seeds. But I assume there's two parts to the MP job: some BG who go to planets to create myths, and others who are trained to make use of those myths. Surely not every BG is trained in all of the MP cant, the responses, and how to employ the local people to their ends? I mean if the BG have record-keepers, other people who don't leave the chapterhouse, what do they need with training like that? I guess I got my idea from this:

Jessica turned her head, stared down into the basin at the golden shadows, the purple shadows, the vibrations of dust-mote air across the lip of their cave. Her mind was filled suddenly with feline prudence. She knew the cant of the Missionaria Protectiva, knew how to adapt the techniques of legend and fear and hope to her emergency needs, but she sensed wild changes here . . . as though someone had been in among these Fremen and capitalized on the Missionaria Protectiva's imprint.

My guess would be that in order to be a concubine serving in a Great House, one would need to have certain training that was oriented toward ruling. This is especially so if the BG wanted to ensure that the BG wives or concubines were unoffically running things in these Great Houses (as Mohiam seems herself to be doing with the Emperor). And to rule one needs to know how to manipulate the local peoples on the planets, especially Arrakis, but also other labor-heavy worlds. So to me being steeped in MP training would probably be necessary for these high-profile concubines, but probably not so much for other BG postings where they'll never get anywhere near those worlds. But you're right, she is clearly not *in* the MP branch. But I always took her training in their techniques to be special.

[Cpt. Aramsham]

Hm, that quote doesn't seem to be as clear to me as you make it out. I think it's entirely possible it means the BG do know they are real RM's, but are just marvelling that they even call them Reverend Mothers rather than some local name. In other words, not only do they live according to the Missionaria's mystique, but even use the BG terms as well.

I don't think that is logical, though. It is almost inconceivable that they would be aware of the existence of women equivalent to Reverend Mothers among the Fremen, but not also know that they go by the same name. (The Fremen don't seem to have any kind of taboo about mentioning them by title, or to make any attempt to conceal their existence.) Or that they would be more fascinated by that rather trivial naming coincidence, with its ready explanation, than interested in the existence of a group of wild Reverend Mothers as such.

That doesn't really address directly whether they know whether the priestesses are awakened or not.

No, it doesn't directly say so, but it makes it clear that Bene Gesserit knowledge and understanding of the Fremen is quite limited. They have "records" of Fremen legends, but not enough context to realize that standard Missionaria Protectiva phrases take on different meaning in Fremen culture. And if they did know, it would be natural for the report to point it out as another failure of intelligence analysis.

I would also argue that if they had been aware of the existence of actual Reverend Mothers among the Fremen, they would have taken a much closer interest in their culture, and probably attempted to absorb or quash them. ("Most educated people know that the worst potential competition for any young organism can come from its own kind.") … Although there are bigger holes than this in FH's worldbuilding, so that's not necessarily a decisive argument. (To take but one example, the Shadout Mapes was the housekeeper at the Arrakeen Palace from before, so she served under Lady Fenring. Why, then, is Jessica's coming such a big deal to her?)

It is impossible to conclusively prove a negative, particularly since we get so little insight into the Bene Gesserit in the first book. We can only say that (1) Jessica does not know; (2) Mohiam and Lady Fenring show no indication of knowing; (3) there is no other indication that anyone in the Sisterhood knows; (4) the book treats it as a twist, and as an unexpected event throwing off the Bene Gesserit contingency plans.

On that basis, and because I think the alternative creates all sorts of problems and improbabilities in the plot and worldbuilding, I feel the interpretation that the Bene Gesserit are completely unaware of the existence of Fremen RMs is much more reasonable.

I dunno. This passage makes it sound like she knows what "pass within" means, and it's left ambiguous whether she thinks they are using a metaphor piece of jargon, or whether they actually mean business.

Up to this point, the Fremen use of the title "Reverend Mother" is a mystery to Jessica, but in this passage she clearly assumes that "Reverend Mother" is just a title they have borrowed from the MP, not the real thing. She concludes this because of the success of her manipulation, taking it as a sign of how "heavily imprinted with our Bene Gesserit soothsay" they are. She finds the phrase "pass within" odd as a description of taking on this mantle of shaman/prophetess/priestess (to "play the part of Auliya, the Friend of God"), but dismisses it since the rest of it fits with the standard cant.

It is also clear that Jessica is not all that well-informed about the rite to become a Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother, and how the process works:

At the school there had been rumors that some did not survive the Reverend Mother ordeal, that the drug took them.

I am now a Reverend Mother, Jessica realized.

And she knew with a generalized awareness that she had become, in truth, precisely what was meant by a Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother. The poison drug had transformed her.

This wasn't exactly how they did it at the Bene Gesserit school, she knew. No one had ever introduced her to the mysteries of it, but she knew.

The end result was the same.

So she comes into the situation ignorant both about the fact that she's about to become a Reverend Mother in the Bene Gesserit sense, and also what that would actually entail.

As for Jessica's MP training and whether it goes beyond the basic BG curriculum, again it is hard to say because we just don't have any direct points of comparison. In reflecting on the MP's work, she thinks about "the protective legends implanted in these people against the day of a Bene Gesserit's need." That makes it sound like any Bene Gesserit could exploit the superstitions, but is hardly conclusive.

Jessica appears to be, if anything, less trained in general than Lady Fenring, than Wanna Yueh, and than Princess Irulan. Irulan comments that "the Lady Jessica's latent abilities were grossly underestimated," which implies both that she was not trained as well as she might have been, and that her skill at taking advantage of the MP preparation can be explained by a previously unrecognized talent. But of course, there could very well be a bunch of Bene Gesserits we never meet or hear of who know less about the Missionaria Protectiva and how to take advantage of it than she does. We can only speculate.

[georgiedenbro]

It is almost inconceivable that they would be aware of the existence of women equivalent to Reverend Mothers among the Fremen, but not also know that they go by the same name. (The Fremen don't seem to have any kind of taboo about mentioning them by title, or to make any attempt to conceal their existence.) Or that they would be more fascinated by that rather trivial naming coincidence, with its ready explanation, than interested in the existence of a group of wild Reverend Mothers as such.

It all sort of depends on your head canon for what's normal in this universe. Is the RM awakening such a 'technological' marvel that literally only the BG in the entire universe ever discovered it (even by accident), or are there wild RM's here and there who naturally just came to be awakened after overdosing on some local drug and getting lucky? I'm not sure which side is the safest to bet on, but I've at least always kept open the possibility in my head that the BG know there are some wild RM's out there. Now maybe it's arguable that Jessica doesn't know this, so that's another point.

No, it doesn't directly say so, but it makes it clear that Bene Gesserit knowledge and understanding of the Fremen is quite limited. They have "records" of Fremen legends, but not enough context to realize that standard Missionaria Protectiva phrases take on different meaning in Fremen culture. And if they did know, it would be natural for the report to point it out as another failure of intelligence analysis.

To be fair, this would be the Baron and the Emperor's intelligence failure, not theirs, since they have no access to these people.

I would also argue that if they had been aware of the existence of actual Reverend Mothers among the Fremen, they would have taken a much closer interest in their culture, and probably attempted to absorb or quash them. ("Most educated people know that the worst potential competition for any young organism can come from its own kind.")

A sensible argument. But I think it's mitigated somewhat by the general belief that there are very few Fremen, maybe 50,000 or whatever the Baron's estimate was. A teeny people wouldn't be worth considering as much of a threat to the BG.

… Although there are bigger holes than this in FH's worldbuilding, so that's not necessarily a decisive argument. (To take but one example, the Shadout Mapes was the housekeeper at the Arrakeen Palace from before, so she served under Lady Fenring. Why, then, is Jessica's coming such a big deal to her?)

This is actually one of the examples that I think shows Jessica's specialized knowing of the MP protocols. Despite Mapes being exposed to Lady Fenring, she's shocked at Jessica's knowledge of the ancient Fremen tongue, the reference to the Maker (although this is an accident on Jessica's part), and the legends. Now to play devil's advocate with myself, Lady Fenring may have known these things too but didn't have any need to employ them. But part of the mystique surrounding Jessica is also the fact that she came with a royal son in tow, whereas the Fenrings appear to be childless.

It is impossible to conclusively prove a negative, particularly since we get so little insight into the Bene Gesserit in the first book. We can only say that (1) Jessica does not know; (2) Mohiam and Lady Fenring show no indication of knowing; (3) there is no other indication that anyone in the Sisterhood knows; (4) the book treats it as a twist, and as an unexpected event throwing off the Bene Gesserit contingency plans.

It's definitely a narrative twist from Jessica's POV. Whether her POV represents the BG POV is another story. As for whether anyone else in the BG knows, the story doesn't require us to know this one way or another, so it's irrelevant in a sense; not irrelevant to our head canon, but irrelevant to the needs of Frank's story. I think the bigger twist in the story isn't so much that the local priestesses are the real deal, but the fact that every sietch has one, which speaks to the enormity of the Fremen power base. It also means that instead of Ramallo being a fluke, a random wild RM, they actually have a separate BG order on Arrakis who create their own RM's on purpose. Which means they're not really wild RM's, but rather a distinct BG group from the main organization. And that is definitely something the BG have no idea about.

On that basis, and because I think the alternative creates all sorts of problems and improbabilities in the plot and worldbuilding, I feel the interpretation that the Bene Gesserit are completely unaware of the existence of Fremen RMs is much more reasonable.

I agree that your position is completely plausible.

Up to this point, the Fremen use of the title "Reverend Mother" is a mystery to Jessica, but in this passage she clearly assumes that "Reverend Mother" is just a title they have borrowed from the MP, not the real thing. She concludes this because of the success of her manipulation, taking it as a sign of how "heavily imprinted with our Bene Gesserit soothsay" they are. She finds the phrase "pass within" odd as a description of taking on this mantle of shaman/prophetess/priestess (to "play the part of Auliya, the Friend of God"), but dismisses it since the rest of it fits with the standard cant.

Yes, although the title "Reverend Mother" appears to be a mystery to Jessica even within the BG itself. I'm sure by this point she knows some stuff (such as that they can be truthsayers, like Mohiam), but it seems perhaps unlikely that she really knows what they can do and how they can do it. I expect that's a secret mystery of the order available only to those in the inner rung (the RM's). Your quote here seems to support this idea:

At the school there had been rumors that some did not survive the Reverend Mother ordeal, that the drug took them.

I am now a Reverend Mother, Jessica realized.

And she knew with a generalized awareness that she had become, in truth, precisely what was meant by a Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother. The poison drug had transformed her.

This wasn't exactly how they did it at the Bene Gesserit school, she knew. No one had ever introduced her to the mysteries of it, but she knew.

The end result was the same.

So the fact that she was surprised by the ritual Ramallo put her through may have been a surprise because she didn't know the inner mechanics of how the RM transformation worked. She seems to have known the outward part, the ritual, but not the inward part, or else she'd have known that transforming poison, one way or another, would do it.

So she comes into the situation ignorant both about the fact that she's about to become a Reverend Mother in the Bene Gesserit sense, and also what that would actually entail.

Which my theory would ascribe to Jessica's own ignorance of the RM's nature, rather than the BG's ignorance of the existence of wild RM's. Now remember I'm not exactly insisting I'm right, but just arguing a different possibility.

Jessica appears to be, if anything, less trained in general than Lady Fenring, than Wanna Yueh, and than Princess Irulan.

She's definitely less trained, or perhaps less interested in, intrigue politics than these others are. Actually whereas Irulan seems very interested in them, having been trained to rule, she actually doesn't seem to be very good at it. Although this is only made clear in later books. Lady Fenring is obviously a badass at intrigue, but she also had Hasimir to work with, who was no doubt the sort of partner who could create great synergy. Contrast with Leto and Jessica, who seemed to be working (as far as we see) on somewhat different tracks, Jessica overseeing Paul's training, while Leto managed the family's power base. If Jessica made Paul's training her primary business then she wouldn't have time to develop the sort of acumen Lady Fenring had. As far as Wanna goes, it's hard to say. She may well have had a part in Yueh's turning, by design. I've thought that maybe she imprinted him, just so he could be broken by a BG plot to eliminate House Atreides. So that would mean even her capture was by her own design. I guess that would make her pretty capable as an agent, although how much of it was her own plan is unknown even if I'm right.

Irulan comments that "the Lady Jessica's latent abilities were grossly underestimated," which implies both that she was not trained as well as she might have been, and that her skill at taking advantage of the MP preparation can be explained by a previously unrecognized talent. But of course, there could very well be a bunch of Bene Gesserits we never meet or hear of who know less about the Missionaria Protectiva and how to take advantage of it than she does. We can only speculate.

Maybe, sure. But maybe also they assumed she was weak because she caved in and gave Leto a son. They might well assume she was a general failure at that point, rather than taking into account that her plan was actually quite bold and ambitious. Mohiam accuses her of trying to sire the KH herself, but I'm not sure if the BG as a whole made that same assumption.

[distrans]

jessica's choice to bear a son jumps ahead of such wondering

she did it
and a mind beyond their control ensued

they were stuck with a mind they couldnt confront


imagine him carving those words on the ascendings steps for to be read eons before their report

boggling

[distrans]

and i bet you

leto2

he alone was responsible for the tabur horde
and the message

left for the sisters...

[georgiedenbro]

and i bet you

leto2

he alone was responsible for the tabur horde
and the message

left for the sisters...

This is the literal plot relayed to us in the book...not much of a mystery.

[distrans]

i meant that he alone carried the spice in
and carved the writings

so it was created when he'd still a mans like form

early in his reign...

[georgiedenbro]

What would it matter whether it was him personally, or some fish speakers, or someone else?

[Freakzilla]

What would it matter whether it was him personally, or some fish speakers, or someone else?

I don't think he would have risked anyone else knowing where his hoard was, unless he killed them afterwards. Maybe, the Tleilaxu couldn't torture info out of a Fish Speaker, but still... his whole empire and the GP hinged on that.

[georgiedenbro]

I don't think he would have risked anyone else knowing where his hoard was, unless he killed them afterwards. Maybe, the Tleilaxu couldn't torture info out of a Fish Speaker, but still... his whole empire and the GP hinged on that.

Sure, he could have had them killed, or maybe had them doing parts of tasks and not know what they were really doing. I guess my point is that it seems pedantic to worry about whether he was physically hauling the spice in there himself with huge bags or whatever like Santa Claus.

[Serkanner]

What would it matter whether it was him personally, or some fish speakers, or someone else?

I don't think he would have risked anyone else knowing where his hoard was, unless he killed them afterwards. Maybe, the Tleilaxu couldn't torture info out of a Fish Speaker, but still... his whole empire and the GP hinged on that.

His prescience would tell him if the hoard would be stolen or not.

[Freakzilla]

What would it matter whether it was him personally, or some fish speakers, or someone else?

I don't think he would have risked anyone else knowing where his hoard was, unless he killed them afterwards. Maybe, the Tleilaxu couldn't torture info out of a Fish Speaker, but still... his whole empire and the GP hinged on that.

His prescience would tell him if the hoard would be stolen or not.

Other than the few glimpses required to assure me that the Golden Path continued, I
never wanted to peer beyond those four millennia. Therefore, I am not sure what the events in my
journals may signify to your times. ~GEoD

His hoard was by that time puny compared to what the BT were producing and the GP was already set

[Glowglobe]

Jessica most certainly knew that she was pregnant, but I think she did not know what she was getting in for. I think she did not know that the ritual she was about to undergo would make her a real reverend mother or that it would pre-awaken Alia. She knew that she was getting into something she didn't understand, and her fear was that she would die and in that case, of course so would Alia. Jessica was willing to take that risk for herself to ensure Paul's place among the Fremen, but she was uneasy about the possibility of sacrificing her daughter for her son.

I think that the Bene Gesserit as an organization knew more than they had told Jessica. When Alia forced her memory of her awakening on Reverend Mother Mohiam at the end of Dune, she tasked Mohiam with:

“That is how it was,” she said. “A cosmic accident... and you played your part in it.”

I'm not sure what Mohiam's part could have been except for failing to tell Jessica something she could have, either about what the reverend mother ordeal entailed or everything the BG knew about the Fremen, I would guess the former but I'm not sure.

My impression of the BG at the time of Dune is that the sisters had different specialties and got different training. Everyone got certain basics, like prima bandu training and the Voice, but not everyone was on the reverend mother track. As part of the breeding stock for the KH program, Jessica (and Margot Fenring) would have gotten advanced concubine training, covering such matters as how to be seductive. Princess Irulan and her sisters were probably of more importance for their position than anything else and got just the standard training, enough to make them loyal to the BG. Wanna Yueh was a full Truthsayer but not, apparently. in the KH breeding program. The MP agents were probably not themselves breeding stock but were experts in mythology, anthropology, and social engineering. I think the reverend mothers like Mohiam comprised an inner circle within the BG. I seem to be coming to the conclusion that the core of the BG cynically manipulated the rest of the sisters, but I'm not sure if I agree with that myself.

In any case, I think the role of the MP was to place certain stock prophecies in all the fringe groups in the empire so that any BG sister who ended up on the wrong side of an intrigue or feud could find refuge. Those sisters who were to be field agents, so to speak, would then be trained in how to take advantage of the prophecies if necessary. If that's the case, Jessica was an "adept" in the sense that she was trained in how to use the MP prophecies, not in how to plant them, analogous to the difference between an aeronautical engineer and a pilot.

Reverend Mother Mohiam may not have known that the Fremen reverend mothers were real reverend mothers, but she did know that the reverend mother ordeal involved a Spice extract, and she knew what that would do to a fetus, but she hadn't bothered to tell Jessica this even though Jessica was extremely likely to need to flee to the Fremen (Mohiam considered Leto doomed) on the very planet of Spice. So I would say that Alia was right in considering Mohiam to be part culpable in Alia's pre-awakening.

[Freakzilla]

Jessica was an adept of the Missionaria Protectiva:

"Matters cannot be allowed to continue in this way," the leader of the Bene Gesserit
delegation had argued. "Surely the signs of decay have not escaped you -- you of all people! We
know why you left us, but we know also how you were trained. Nothing was stinted in your
education. You are an adept of the Panoplia Prophetica and you must know when the souring of a
powerful religion threatens us all."
~Children of Dune

[Glowglobe]

What is the relationship between the Missionaria Protectiva and the Panoplia Prophetica? The MP is clearly the organization, but does Panoplia Prophetica mean "protective prophecies" or something like that (bearing in mind that the original meaning of "panoply" was a complete set of hoplite armor)? That doesn't argue against my speculation that Jessica was trained in how to take advantage of the MP's prophecies but not in how to implant them.

It also doesn't argue against my impression that Jessica was not fully trained in the process of becoming an RM:

And she knew with a generalized awareness that she had become, in truth, precisely what was meant by a Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother. The poison drug had transformed her.
This wasn’t exactly how they did it at the Bene Gesserit school, she knew. No one had ever introduced her to the mysteries of it, but she knew.

I don't mean that I think Jessica was poorly trained, only that I think not every BG followed the same training syllabus.

I am not as familiar with HoD and Chapterhouse, but I get the impression that by that time every BG is on the RM track.

[Freakzilla]

What is the relationship between the Missionaria Protectiva and the Panoplia Prophetica? The MP is clearly the organization, but does Panoplia Prophetica mean "protective prophecies" or something like that (bearing in mind that the original meaning of "panoply" was a complete set of hoplite armor)? That doesn't argue against my speculation that Jessica was trained in how to take advantage of the MP's prophecies but not in how to implant them.

MISSIONARIA PROTECTIVA: the arm of the Bene Gesserit order charged with sowing infectious
superstitions on primitive worlds, thus opening those regions to exploitation by the Bene
Gesserit. (See Panoplia propheticus.)

PANOPLIA PROPHETICUS: term covering the infectious superstitions used by the Bene Gesserit to
exploit primitive regions. (See Missionaria Protectiva.)

~Dune, Terminology of the Imperium

It also doesn't argue against my impression that Jessica was not fully trained in the process of becoming an RM:

And she knew with a generalized awareness that she had become, in truth, precisely what was meant by a Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother. The poison drug had transformed her.
This wasn’t exactly how they did it at the Bene Gesserit school, she knew. No one had ever introduced her to the mysteries of it, but she knew.

I don't mean that I think Jessica was poorly trained, only that I think not every BG followed the same training syllabus.

As I quoted before, ...we know also how you were trained. Nothing was stinted in your education. She recognized how to rearrange molecules insider her to convert the WoL so she knew how to protect herself from poisons. I think she got the full training, but I don't think the BG intended for her to become a RM, or didn't think she was ready for it. In later books, GEoD I think, it's said it take some BG 50 years to become a RM.

I am not as familiar with HoD and Chapterhouse, but I get the impression that by that time every BG is on the RM track.

Agreed, at that time they needed all the RMs they could get.

[Glowglobe]

This has made me think of another question I have regarding the purpose of reverend mothers. It's rather off topic for "jessica's ordeal"; should I take it up in "The Goal of the Bene Gesserit for the Known Universe"? It doesn't fit perfectly there either, but probably better than here.

[Cpt. Aramsham]

Jessica was an adept of the Missionaria Protectiva:

That is not quite what the quote actually says.

Although the panoplia propheticus is implanted by the MP, it is for the use of the Sisterhood generally, as the Terminology indicates. It is clear that Jessica has been trained in this use, but that does not necessarily make her an adept of the Missionaria Protectiva (any more than being trained in using Excel makes you a computer programmer). The quote does imply that this is not true of all sisters, so that supports georgiedenbro's view that Jessica had special training that e.g. Margot Fenring may not have had.

She recognized how to rearrange molecules insider her to convert the WoL so she knew how to protect herself from poisons.

Until she became a RM she was not immune from poisons. The book implies that this was something only the mind-expanding properties of the Water of Life enabled her to do, not necessarily something she had actually been trained in. (Although Bene Gesserit training no doubt prepared her for the experience, to some degree.) Since Fremen Sayyadinas also attempt the change and become RMs without BG training, it's not some absolute necessity.

Certainly the Sisterhood did not intend for her to become a Reverend Mother, and whether or not she had been given the same training as those on that path is impossible to know. I don't think that "nothing was stinted in your education" implies that she had been instructed in everything that any BG was taught; in context, the statement is discussing her understanding of politics and socio-religious dynamics.