Chapter 01

[Freakzilla]

Such a rich store of myths enfolds Paul Muad'dib, the Mentat Emperor, and his sister, Alia, it is difficult to see the real persons behind these veils. But there were, after all, a man born Paul Atreides and a woman born Alia. Their flesh was subject to space and time. And even though their oracular powers placed them beyond the usual limits of time and space, they came from human stock. They experienced real events which left real traces upon a real universe.
To understand them, it must be seen that their catastrophe was the catastrophe of all mankind. This work is dedicated, then, not to Muad'dib or his sister, but to their heirs -- to all of us.
-Dedication in the Muad'dib Concordance as copied from The Tabla Memorium of the Mahdi Spirit Cult

This chapter is a recap of Dune and update of events since, from Analysis of History: Muad'dib by Bronso of Ix. It explains that Paul had been born into an ancient great family, received the Bene Gesserit deep training from his mother, was a mentat and the Kwisatz Haderach, through whom the Bene Gesserit hoped to control human destiny and became emperor by marrying the daughter of the emperor he defeated with his Fremen legions, ended the Guild monopoly, gave Alia the religious throne the Bene Gesserit had hoped for. Also, his Qizerate's 12 year jihad brought most of humanity under his rule. All due to capturing Arrakis, sole sorce of the spice which gave him prescience, empowers Reverend Mothers and Guild Navigators and without which billions of citizen would die from withdrawl. It tells us that the lethal trap of total prediction defeated Muad'dib, not the obvious Guild, Bene Gesserit and Tleilaxu plot, neither was it houshold spies, the Dune Tarot, Duncan Idaho's ghola or Korba's Qizerate Cabal.

[Freakzilla]

Revised

[publicano]

Does anyone here knows of an exhaustive Character List of DM?
And I mean every character in the book, including somewhat obscure like Tecrube?

Thanks a lot

[Freakzilla]

No, but if you find one, please share.

[Serkanner]

Does anyone here knows of an exhaustive Character List of DM?
And I mean every character in the book, including somewhat obscure like Tecrube?

Thanks a lot

Congratulations! You found yourself a job.

[Freakzilla]

I was just thinking that would be a good addition to the Reading Group. A list of characters with a link to a topic discussing just that character.

[publicano]

I was just thinking that would be a good addition to the Reading Group. A list of characters with a link to a topic discussing just that character.

I think that would be great, since we could discuss the character in depth without having to focus on a particular chapter.

Since some characters change their minds from one book to another, like, say, Alia or Irulan, separate topics for them in each Book's subforum would make perfect sense.

[georgiedenbro]

Damn...this guy seems to know a heck of a lot for someone alive during Paul's reign. For him to claim such conclusive knowledge of the events of the book to come, enough to think he knows for certain how to explain the events - how could he have these details? It's enough to almost make me think that the Dune books are in-universe documents, and that maybe Bronso read Dune and DM...

[Freakzilla]

Blasphemy! Irulan had nothing better to do than write books about Paul.

[georgiedenbro]

Heh, I know it's blasphemy, but really how else could he claim to know the things he knows? Honestly I'd rather ascribe it to Frank's desire to have a cool intro to the book and in so doing creating a slightly illogical premise (namely that this guy was some kind of fly on the wall of various secret meetings).

Continuing my comment from Chapter 0...if Bronso knew about he conspiracy, and even knew that the BG and, Guild and BT were involved...and if this was all just as Paul was going to the desert or something...well damn! I mean even if he was magically right there watching the scene unfold at the end of DM and knew for sure about the presence of BT people...how in the world would he know the Guild or BG were involved?

[Freakzilla]

I think we can assume that since Paul had the universe by the balls, everyone wanted to dethrone him and conspiracies were common. The details Bronso knows does seem a little suspect, though.

[Naib]

I think we can assume that since Paul had the universe by the balls, everyone wanted to dethrone him and conspiracies were common. The details Bronso knows does seem a little suspect, though.

Agreed. A ruler of such power would inevitably have enemies that would conspire against his rule. As I said in the prelude thread, perhaps Bronso was a mentat.

[georgiedenbro]

I think we can assume that since Paul had the universe by the balls, everyone wanted to dethrone him and conspiracies were common. The details Bronso knows does seem a little suspect, though.

Agreed. A ruler of such power would inevitably have enemies that would conspire against his rule. As I said in the prelude thread, perhaps Bronso was a mentat.

I suppose you'd need to ask yourself how good a scholar a mentat would choose to be. Could he publish first approximation as 'history'? Need it be Prime Projection? Or just data and interpretation of that data, which is currently how we see the study of history? A mentat is nothing without data, so...where did he get his data from? That's basically my question. He didn't just assume a conspiracy; from both his tone and his specific intimations he seems to know a great deal more than he should just based on historical trends and conjecture. It's almost reads like he was there at those secret/private events.

[Naib]

Perhaps he wasn't present, but was employed by one of the conspirators. I would suggest Irulan. She might have hired a mentat to assist her with her own works and Bronso became privy or was given details of the conspiracy (maybe to assist Irulan in her own plans).

[the rev]

The question of how Bronso knows so much has me questioning when he lived. I believe (could be wrong, I'm wrong all the time) the only reference to Muad'Dib in the present tense is when he asks 'Does Muad'Dib know what you do in these dungeons?'. But the unnamed priest replies 'We do not trouble the royal family with these matters'. This may imply this occurs in the reign of Paul's heirs, and they reigned for a long time. I can't imagine Bronso would have lived long enough to write his books if the Bene Gesserit knew the secret information he was disclosing.

This musing may be in vain because I seem to remember Bronso re-appearing in Children of Dune but the accursed prequels have confused my memory and sabotaged my attempt to find an answer. I forgot how thoughtless and stupid their attempts to create backstories for the most minor of characters was. Which means I'm not spoiling anything at least.

The crimes Bronso is guilty of is writing and talking of Paul as if he's a human and not God. Important to remember later in the book as you learn more about the priesthood and the conspirators. They could care less about Paul the man, Paul the perfect deity is what they're interested in. Creating the myth requires removing all evidence of human failings. These human failings are what the conspiracy focuses on as weaknesses, another reason they want to keep them secret.

Bronso foreshadows, and has some of the characteristics, of Malky.

[Serkanner]

At the end of the book we read this:

"REDACTED commanded the execution of the traitors."
"Oh." REDACTED suppressed a feeling of vertigo as he looked up at the promontory. "Which traitors?"
"REDACTED. . . a few others."

Bronso could indeed be part of the plot.

[the rev]

I wanted to read through it again, before I commented so I could think about it. The Bronso dialogue is very similar to the intro in the first book. Giving us a 'measure of the time and place'. He's a literary device, a 'narrator' more then an actual character. Has nothing whatsoever to do with the plot. He's very similar to the historian at the start of God Emperor. It's absurd that KJA and Bobo decided to give his adventures a prominent roll in their lame books. Wasn't considered important enough to include in the British printing.

I don't believe he's one of the 'traitors' mentioned later in the book.

I believe the reference is to the other Fremen Bijaz snitched on, and their helpers. And Edric, the other face dancers, etc.

Bronso mentioned the Atreides don't know he's in the prison; the traitors executed were hand picked by Alia. (Of course, like a lot of stuff we discuss, you can interpret how you like. If you believe he was one of the original conspirators, it's possible; though I think it's unlikely. If this was a KJA book there'd be an entire chapter about the execution.) Bronso comes across a university history professor type. Why would Scytale, with his cunning, include such a man in his conspiracy? To write a history book to get common people in the empire to join his conspiracy? What use would they be to his purposes? (that are revealed later) He would blab everything he knew to the priests, implicate all of them.

I think his book, 'The Analysis of History' was ABOUT the first conspiracy. Could have been a best seller, maybe he made an appearance on Oprah. The people who the priest is talking about, that were 'using it' are young people, '60s protestor types. Or the sort of people the Soviets sent to the gulag. It's a repressive society, opposition is tightly controlled. He did the research, wrote the book, and ran afoul of the 'God Squad', very similar to the PAVA. The Iranian Public Security and Intelligence Service. Making sure everyone wears their hijab and doesn't write anything bad about the messiah.