A comparison (Lynch Dune)

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Naïve mind
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A comparison (Lynch Dune)

Postby Naïve mind » 28 Jul 2014 16:20

If you have the time, I want to invite you to compare these two scenes:

The first is Paul's address to the Fedaykin from David Lynch's adaptation:



The second is an infamous speech by Joseph Goebbels where he asks the German people if they are willing to bring the German economy on a war footing. If you don't find it distasteful, skip to about 50 seconds in:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVP3KU-qOzc#t=53[/youtube]

Now, Goebbels's speech is a bit longer, and he shouts a bit more than Paul. The words in the film all seem to derive from the book, but there's a strong similarity in their purpose; both describe themselves as a coming storm, both talk about upsetting the existing order.

Then there are visual similarities. The excited, hushed masses ready to display their loyalty. The raising of arms and crysknives.

What do you guys think? Even considering that Joseph Goebbels and Hollywood heavily influenced each other, is this a deliberate citation by Lynch?

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Re: A comparison (Lynch Dune)

Postby D Pope » 28 Jul 2014 18:24

I doubt it, there are only so many points to touch on when
rousing the boys for battle. This example misses a few lines
of text but still illustrates the point,
we're gonna get 'em- are you with me?

Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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Re: A comparison (Lynch Dune)

Postby Freakzilla » 28 Jul 2014 19:54

Naive, I'm missing the point of this.

Joseph Goebbels and Hollywood heavily influenced each other


How fucking high are you?
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Re: A comparison (Lynch Dune)

Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 29 Jul 2014 17:41

Lector in fabula ...

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      Jodorowsky's Acolyte
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      Re: A comparison (Lynch Dune)

      Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 09 Aug 2014 19:20

      Freakzilla wrote:Naive, I'm missing the point of this.

      Joseph Goebbels and Hollywood heavily influenced each other


      How fucking high are you?


      Cut him some slack. Many of us in our younger years before him have made plenty broad general connections between things that aren't really connected. I don't see the connection either, but it's unfair to call him high.

      D Pope wrote:I doubt it, there are only so many points to touch on when
      rousing the boys for battle. This example misses a few lines
      of text but still illustrates the point,
      we're gonna get 'em- are you with me?



      This is more like how I see that scene. I certainly get a Hevry V vibe from Paul's speech.

      Personally, I think that Paul's speech from the Dune miniseries has more devices which manipulate the crowd than the speech in Lynch's version. There are no clips of that scene on You Tube at hand, but I think that speech is similar to Mark Antony's speech from Julius Caesar. As Antony does the "I don't want to have you avenge Caesar with anger, but I really want you to avenge Caesar's death with anger," Paul does the "I'm not really your god, but now I want you to worship me as your god." It's more in keeping with Frank's themes about the manipulative leader.
      '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky

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      Freakzilla
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      Re: A comparison (Lynch Dune)

      Postby Freakzilla » 10 Aug 2014 08:10

      I was probably drunk, or hungover... no innocents.

      I can actually see how Nazi propaganda was influenced by Hollywood but I have difficulty seeing it the other way around.

      At least, not at the time it was happening. Lord knows there were plenty of Nazi movies AFTERWARDS.
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      Cpt. Aramsham
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      Re: A comparison (Lynch Dune)

      Postby Cpt. Aramsham » 10 Aug 2014 14:15

      The Nazis indirectly influenced Hollywood by driving away a lot of great filmmakers (Jewish as well as gentile) to America. And of course there's Leni Riefenstahl, who has been hugely influential. I would suppose there were also movies at the time that were inspired by Goebbels' mass rallies and speeches in portraying such events. (Regrettably, movies explicitly about Nazi Germany were practically verboten in Hollywood up until very shortly before the US entry into the war, due to German pressure; the only really major feature was Chaplin's The Great Dictator in 1940, and even that used a made-up country to stand in for Germany.)

      But I am not aware that Goebbels specifically influenced Hollywood to any great degree, at least not at the time.

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      Re: A comparison (Lynch Dune)

      Postby MuaB'Beep » 16 Sep 2014 11:55

      Cpt. Aramsham wrote:The Nazis indirectly influenced Hollywood by driving away a lot of great filmmakers (Jewish as well as gentile) to America. And of course there's Leni Riefenstahl, who has been hugely influential. I would suppose there were also movies at the time that were inspired by Goebbels' mass rallies and speeches in portraying such events. (Regrettably, movies explicitly about Nazi Germany were practically verboten in Hollywood up until very shortly before the US entry into the war, due to German pressure; the only really major feature was Chaplin's The Great Dictator in 1940, and even that used a made-up country to stand in for Germany.)

      But I am not aware that Goebbels specifically influenced Hollywood to any great degree, at least not at the time.


      My uncle was a Free City Gdansk citizen working in the ministry of the interior after Gdansk was annexed to Germany. He once told me how nazis (or just german ministry of propaganda employees) studied hollywood movies - especially because they researched ways to boost Hitler's public speeches with more acting techniques used by amrican cinema. Hitler didn't really used their reports because he was already most charismatic dude in Germany - also after Munich there wasn;t really much more to do in the PR department for the Germans.


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