2.5 Million Planets

[Freakzilla]

I thought the Lampadas Hoard was Shared memories of the RMs from Lampadas. There could easily be that many RM on a prominent BG school planet. Just before the the HM attack they would have started progressiva extremis, I think it's called. Sharing among each other so each one carries the collective OM of all the RM and no lines are lost. Hell, Burzmalli lost 2 million men at Rakis.

[SandChigger]

Oops?

[Tleszer]

Bad, SandChigger, bad!

[SandChigger]

Have to do something every once in a while to prove I'm human.


(And just imagine how wet and oozy Hyppo will be when she sees this. She might even come! I know Brian Conway will. )

[Tleszer]

Have to do something every once in a while to prove I'm human.


(And just imagine how wet and oozy Hyppo will be when she sees this. She might even come! I know Brian Conway will. )

Wet, oozy, and Hyppo do NOT belong in the same sentence. Bad, SandChigger, bad!

[Spicelon]

I question the original assertion of six persons per square meter. Even for average sized women that is one super tight packing.

[SandChigger]

Everyone's a critic.

Hey, I marked off a square meter and stood in it and imagined myself with bodacious mutatays and an ass that wouldn't take no for an answer until it had warped spacetime and I could see six of me fitting in there, even then.

(Could see? Hell, I'd pay a dollar to see that! )

So what do you think would be a more reasonable figure (number estimate, I mean; my figure's more than reasonable as it is), keeping in mind that this is probably another case of Frank just blowing random numbers out of his backside?

[Rakis]

Another math extrapolation I've wanted to discuss is:

In Heretics, someone (waff maybe?) says that the Honored Matres outnumber the BG by 10,000 to 1. When Rebecca brings the 'Lampadas Horde' to the BG, she says she has over 7,000,000 reverend mothers. This means, at the minimum, there are 7,000,00 RMs but we should expect many more. Lets call it 10,000,000 total. That would mean that only 3,000,000 other reverend mothers exist besides those on lampades, which I feel is a very conservative estimate given that 15 planets are destroyed before lampadas is, if Lampadas does actually have 7 million of them.

Since the BG is not 100% reverend mothers, lets pretend that they are mostly reverend mothers, say 2/3 of them are.

This means there is at least 15,000,000 BG

And if the HM outnumber the BG by 10000 to 1 then there are at least....

150 billion Honored Matres...

Is that reasonable?

Maybe Waff was exaggerating...can you imagine the number of ships to carry back 150 billions people from the Scattering? And that's without counting the army of men with them...

[Freakzilla]

I question the original assertion of six persons per square meter. Even for average sized women that is one super tight packing.

The Americans with Disabilities Act Accesibility Guidlines give about that much space to one stationary person in a wheelchair.

[SandChigger]

Well ... if Chanilover is correct in his suppositions, that's probably also about the area occupied by one Albertan cow.

[Freakzilla]

Well ... if Chanilover is correct in his suppositions, that's probably also about the area occupied by one Albertan cow.

I'd give the cow an extra square meter just to be safe.

[Omphalos]

You might want to fence that space off too.

[Skibum]

Another math extrapolation I've wanted to discuss is:

In Heretics, someone (waff maybe?) says that the Honored Matres outnumber the BG by 10,000 to 1. When Rebecca brings the 'Lampadas Horde' to the BG, she says she has over 7,000,000 reverend mothers. This means, at the minimum, there are 7,000,00 RMs but we should expect many more. Lets call it 10,000,000 total. That would mean that only 3,000,000 other reverend mothers exist besides those on lampades, which I feel is a very conservative estimate given that 15 planets are destroyed before lampadas is, if Lampadas does actually have 7 million of them.

Since the BG is not 100% reverend mothers, lets pretend that they are mostly reverend mothers, say 2/3 of them are.

This means there is at least 15,000,000 BG

And if the HM outnumber the BG by 10000 to 1 then there are at least....

150 billion Honored Matres...

Is that reasonable?

Maybe Waff was exaggerating...can you imagine the number of ships to carry back 150 billions people from the Scattering? And that's without counting the army of men with them...

If there are one million planets in the old empire then would be about 150,000 HMs per planet.

Its a lot of people.

Its a lot sex.

[SandChigger]

I'm feeling dizzy just thinking about it....

[Freakzilla]

Keep in mind, the HM had been on Gammu for 100 years at the time of HoD and were recruiting from the native population (Murbella).

It's not like all the people from The Scattering came back at once.

[JustSomeGuy]

by Freakzilla » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:01 am

I've often wondered about how the math from that scene would work out, thanks, SC.

But a regiment is a very small force to manage a planet.

In the US Army a platoon is like 30 guys, plotoons make up companies, battalions and then regiments which can be as strong as a few thousand.

It'd be hard to control a city with a regiment.

Maybe the native populations don't have access to the same technologies as the masters. I know the Fremen did, but they were living on Dune and trading Spice on the black market.

by SandChigger » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:02 am

But it's not really that simple....

The phrase "Million Planets" is used by the HMs and others returning from The Scattering. So it doesn't quite jibe with Leto's pre-Scattering Empire being bigger, does it?

Maybe it was an old, fixed expression?

Or maybe it just indicated the worlds that constituted the (Old) Empire in that part of the galaxy?

Curiouser and curioser....

Anyway you look at it, one million is a big number. I always thought the phrase "Million Planets" was meant to indicate what a large empire (or whatever) the HMs were running from/had come from.

[SandRider]

I think I always took the "outnumbered 10 to 1" thing to mean the entire population of the Old Empire vs the scattered planets under
the sway of the Honored Matres ... not a literal RM to HM ratio ... I think what Waff was saying was that the Bene Gesserit leadership
had underestimated not only the size of the space the HM controlled, but also the size and scope of the scattering itself ...

that the Bene Gesserit were kidding themselves in thinking they had any control over the "human population" of the universe anymore,
perhaps an indication that they really hadn't grasped all the realities of the Golden Path ...

[Visigoth]

Well, I can only speak for myself, but these are my assumptions and conclusions, in both threads:

1. The Old Empire was smaller than Leto's.

2. We have no idea how many planets/systems comprised the Old Empire, but the name "Million Planets" used by Scattering humans is suggestive. It is not known, however, if the name refers to all of the Old Empire, all of Leto's Empire, or simply that part of either located in the section of the Milky Way where the stories began.

3. Leto's Empire was definitely spread over more than one galaxy. The Old Empire at the time of Dune may or may not have been. (I think not, simply because there is no clear statement to the effect that it was and based on other reasons discussed in the other thread. "May or may not" is my compromise position on this one. )

4. If there's any validity to the Fishspeaker meeting scene measurements and narrative, Leto's Empire must have included at least somewhere close to 2.5 million planets.
I believe the above is consistent with the books, internally, and across the two threads, but I haven't reread the other thread.

There is a pretense estimate that during, or just after the C.E.T., the were 13,333,333 Worlds that had 1,000,000 religious followers or more. Or, more accurately, 6,000 is the estimate historians used to enumarate the number of human lives the riots took during/after the C.E.T. in each of the worlds then, in the Landsraad League?
Now, if riots happened also in worlds with less than 1,000,000 followers of religion? Wouldn't that means that there are even more planets than 13,333,333 Worlds?

What about if riots took part in Worlds that were not members of the Landsraad League?

We do not know if all the member Worlds had a religious following of any quantity.

13,333,333 Worlds in the Landsraad League.


Appendix II
Dune

[Freakzilla]

It's not a 'League', it's just The Landsraad.

[Visigoth]

It's not a 'League', it's just The Landsraad.

That's the way it is written in Appendix II
Dune.

[Visigoth]

Everyone's a critic.

Hey, I marked off a square meter and stood in it and imagined myself with bodacious mutatays and an ass that wouldn't take no for an answer until it had warped spacetime and I could see six of me fitting in there, even then.

(Could see? Hell, I'd pay a dollar to see that! )

So what do you think would be a more reasonable figure (number estimate, I mean; my figure's more than reasonable as it is), keeping in mind that this is probably another case of Frank just blowing random numbers out of his backside?

I missed this one.

Another case?


Edited

[Freakzilla]

It's not a 'League', it's just The Landsraad.

That's the way it is written in Appendix II
Dune.

You're right, that's the only instance. Every other time it's mention it's just the Landsraad.

[Visigoth]

It's not a 'League', it's just The Landsraad.

That's the way it is written in Appendix II
Dune.

You're right, that's the only instance. Every other time it's mention it's just the Landsraad.

Landsraad it is.

[Visigoth]

I don't place to much confidence in my math, or comprehension, but the way AppendixII of Dune reads to me:
At that time in the Universe there were 13,333,333 Worlds in the Landsraad.

Does anyone knows the year of the riots or the year the C.E.T. took place.

There was a timeline somewhere here:-)

[Freakzilla]

It's not a 'League', it's just The Landsraad.

That's the way it is written in Appendix II
Dune.

You're right, that's the only instance. Every other time it's mention it's just the Landsraad.

Landsraad it is.

Sorry for being picky, you caught me before my coffee.