Ima trava okolo i korenje okolo :)

Tleilaxative · Post by **Tleilaxative** » 05 Oct 2011 13:40

Hi, I'm just a guy from Serbia, a huge fan of Dune... also, may I say how impressed I am to finally find a place where I can bitch about the recent prequels and sequels,
I've tried for those not to affect me, but it really has tarnished the whole dune experience. I've been lurking for a while now, and I see this forum as a sort of therapy against the trauma caused by KJA and BH.

Tleszer · Post by **Tleszer** » 05 Oct 2011 13:44

Welcome!

You've come to the right place. I hope you didn't read too many of the prequels and sequels. Sandworms of Dune actually made me angry and disgusted.

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 05 Oct 2011 13:45

Welcome, love the name!

Post by **lotek** » 05 Oct 2011 14:00

welcome !

The good thing about the mind turds of the hacks is that they're so useless your brain doesn't know how to reference them, they just go in the useless goo pile for me after a while.

Hang in there !

Also, watch out for foreign languages here, there but a few rules and it's one of them.

But someone else will brief you on that !

Post by **Freakzilla** » 05 Oct 2011 14:33

Tleilaxative · Post by **Tleilaxative** » 05 Oct 2011 14:38

Well, my introduction is a quote from the first Dune - when the fremen women sing on Jamis' burial ( I think ).
The women sing in Chakobsa language - "Ima trava okolo i korenje okolo" which is especially funny to me, because it's pure Serbian language

)

Post by **Freakzilla** » 05 Oct 2011 14:50

Luckily for you, Chakobsa is one of the languages that are allowed.

Serkanner · Post by **Serkanner** » 05 Oct 2011 15:39

Welcome Home!

Post by **lotek** » 05 Oct 2011 16:41

Tleilaxative wrote:Well, my introduction is a quote from the first Dune - when the fremen women sing on Jamis' burial ( I think ).
The women sing in Chakobsa language - "Ima trava okolo i korenje okolo" which is especially funny to me, because it's pure Serbian language )

good intro, I must admit I didn't recognize it. I did kinda assume it was Serbian anyway

Nekhrun · Post by **Nekhrun** » 05 Oct 2011 17:31

welcome

Post by **Omphalos** » 05 Oct 2011 18:10

Helloooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 06 Oct 2011 08:46

Achlan wasachlan!

lotek wrote:I must admit I didn't recognize it.

Tleilaxative · Post by **Tleilaxative** » 06 Oct 2011 09:43

God created Brian and Kevin to test the faithful, one cannot go against the word of God

Tleszer · Post by **Tleszer** » 06 Oct 2011 10:14

Tleilaxative wrote:Normacle created Brian and Kevin to test the faithful, one cannot go against the word of Normacle.

Fix'd

Post by **lotek** » 07 Oct 2011 06:33

SandChigger wrote:Achlan wasachlan!

lotek wrote:I must admit I didn't recognize it.

Yup I guess I deserve it

But still

Tleilaxative wrote: "Ima trava okolo i korenje okolo" which is especially funny to me, because it's pure Serbian language )

develop ^^

Tleilaxative · Post by **Tleilaxative** » 07 Oct 2011 11:24

Well, the entire sentence is pure Serbian language. The correct translation to English would be "there are herbs around and roots around".
"trava" usually means - grass -, but in this context it's probably about some healing herbs.

There are (now) quite a few languages which are very similar to Serbian, the sentence would be almost the same in Croatian or Bosnian etc.
but only in Serbian the word "roots" is pronounced "korenje", while others would say "korijenje" or in Bulgarian it would be something like "ima treva okolo i koreni okolo".

I suspect that the fremen women were wailing about how Jamis' cannot be resurrected even with all the healing herbs and roots around.
It's an old custom in the Balkans for women to loudly wail on funerals, especialy when it's men in their prime who died.

Again, I don't think the Fremen are Serbs, just found it extremely interesting that our relatively unknown language was mentioned in my favourite sci-fi masterpiece.

Post by **lotek** » 07 Oct 2011 17:30

that's pretty cool stuff to know, did anyone here happen to have heard this before ?
Chig ? ^^

SadisticCynic · Post by **SadisticCynic** » 08 Oct 2011 08:09

It came up here once.

Post by **lotek** » 08 Oct 2011 13:29

I guess that feeling that I knew already comes from the fact that you just told me I should have known

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 11 Oct 2011 17:41

Here's my take on it all:

FH didn't really spend any time developing his future languages; he wasn't another Tolkien. Judging from the examples in the books, Fremen is pretty much just romanized Arabic with some loanwords from a lot of different languages; Chakobsa is Serbian or Romany (Gypsy) and Maker-knows-what-else; Ixian appears to be Chinese; Galach is virtually non-existent.

I suspect that for anything besides the Fremen/Arabic (where he obviously used a dictionary and that British travelogue and some books on Islam—he quotes from the hadith in Children, I believe—and may have even consulted an Arabic-speaking informant or expert?), FH just grabbed a dictionary or grammar or other book off his shelf and picked a word or example sentence at random.

Since there is so little Chakobsa given in the books, we can't really use it to say anything about the origins of the language. (Unlike with the Fremen, where we have the language and the religion pointing to some Arabic/Muslim ancestry.)

My solution is just to say that the examples of Chakobsa we have look identical to modern-day Serbian, etc., but that this is just an accident of convergent evolution; an accident, in other words. If someone were to try to develop a Chakobsa conlang, I wouldn't recommend them basing the grammar or other features of the language on Serbian. Maybe grab a few more words from that language to keep the same "feel", but nothing more. And I would reanalyze the examples we have syntactically and semantically and assign them the meanings FH gives them in the books.

FWIW

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 12 Oct 2011 11:14

Welcome. Your Water is Ours.

Post by **lotek** » 12 Oct 2011 14:41

Sandrider is back !

Post by **Freakzilla** » 12 Oct 2011 14:45

lotek wrote:Sandrider is back !

That's so, like, 4-1/2 hours ago.

Post by **lotek** » 12 Oct 2011 14:53

I live in the past ^^

J A C U R U T U

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