"Goldman Sachs rules the world"

[Freakzilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... qN3amj6AcE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Nice to see some honesty, but damn!

[A Thing of Eternity]

Ok, just we're clear, it's not Obama's fault, we're just screwed no matter what anyone in government does!

[Freakzilla]

Ok, just we're clear, it's not Obama's fault, we're just screwed no matter what anyone in government does!

He saw it coming, that's why he's spending our money like he stole our credit card.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Ok, just we're clear, it's not Obama's fault, we're just screwed no matter what anyone in government does!

He saw it coming, that's why he's spending our money like he stole our credit card.

You mean China's money right?!

I have to look up some stats, I'm actually very sure he hasn't spent any more money than Bush did (the bailout plan was Bush's plan too people seem to forget, Obama just put it through once he got into office) but people seem to think Obama's just the worst spender in US History.

[Nekhrun]

I have to look up some stats, I'm actually very sure he hasn't spent any more money than Bush did (the bailout plan was Bush's plan too people seem to forget, Obama just put it through once he got into office) but people seem to think Obama's just the worst spender in US History.

You mean something like this:



That damn, non-partisan Congressional Budget Office.

[Freakzilla]

Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit

[Freakzilla]

[Freakzilla]

January 25, 2011

...

When President Obama took office two years ago, the national debt stood at $10.626 trillion. It now stands at $14.071 trillion — a staggering increase of $3.445 trillion in just 735 days (about $5 billion a day).

To put that into perspective, when President George W. Bush took office, our national debt was $5.768 trillion. By the time Bush left office, it had nearly doubled, to $10.626 trillion. So Bush's record on deficit spending was not good at all: During his presidency, the national debt rose by an average of $607 billion a year. How does that compare to Obama? During Obama's presidency to date, the national debt has risen by an average of $1.723 trillion a year — or by a jaw-dropping $1.116 trillion more, per year, than it rose even under Bush.

And that's from NPR.

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/133211508 ... sh-on-debt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Freakzilla]

"The budget submitted by Obama will add more to the debt than the outstanding debt of the previous 43 presidents combined."




Rep. Eric Cantor, R-7th, recently had his pants set afire by PolitiFact Virginia for the following statement on Comedy Central's Daily Show with Jon Stewart:

"What you've seen (in Washington)," he said, "is a crowd that has taken advantage of a crisis back in late '08, early '09 and spent more money than this country has spent in the last 200 years combined, in the two years since."

In a Richmond Times-Dispatch letter to the editor days after the PolitiFact rating, Cantor owned up to misspeaking and clarified his remarks.

"What I meant to say was that the budget submitted by Obama will add more to the debt than the outstanding debt of the previous 43 presidents combined," he wrote.

Well, is that true?

We decided to take a look.

First, it bears mentioning that Cantor’s revised statement does two things: it changes the focus from spending to accumulated public debt and does away with the two-year timeline. That changes things considerably.

Asked for a source for the adjusted claim, a spokeswoman for Cantor pointed to statistics on publicly held debt from the Office of Management and Budget.

According to those figures, the debt from the nation's birth through the end of 2008 -- George Washington through George W. Bush -- was $5.8 trillion.

Now, had Cantor stuck with the original timeline of two years, we would need to limit our look at the increase in public federal debt between the end of 2008 and the end of 2010, which has been almost $3.5 trillion. That would make the claim false by a long shot.

But by leaving the date open ended, we are left to determine for ourselves when and if the Obama administration’s budget would double the $5.8 trillion in debt accumulated through the end of fiscal 2008.

Well, according to the OMB’s fiscal year 2011 budget projections, that would occur at the end of fiscal 2012, when the debt is expected to reach $11.6 trillion.

In fiscal 2013, the last budget assembled during President Barack Obama's first term, debt is expected to reach $12.5 trillion.

So, let’s take a look back.

Cantor’s clarifications altered the original claim in two ways: focusing on publicly held debt instead of spending and not limiting the timeline to two years from Obama taking office.

As a result, the claim adds up since the $5.8 trillion of debt accumulated in the U.S. to date is projected to double by 2012, or three years after Obama took office.

Of course, whether this will happen is another matter entirely, as new budgets with new projections are adopted each year. Nonetheless, Cantor’s claim works based on the most recent numbers available and we therefore find it to be True.

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/stat ... otaled-43/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Freakzilla]

But we're getting off-topic...

THE SKY IS FALLING!

[Nekhrun]

Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit

If the Bush tax cuts had expired we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[Freakzilla]

Oh, I doubt it. The economy would be even WORSE and Obama would have to spend MORE money to decrease the deficit.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Oh, I doubt it. The economy would be even WORSE and Obama would have to spend MORE money to decrease the deficit.

Or you could be like Canada and have barely taken a hit at all in comparison.

The USA was at it's most powerful and richest (the people the richest, not the gov the richest) when the taxes were the highest if my history teachers weren't lying to me.

[Nekhrun]

Oh, I doubt it. The economy would be even WORSE and Obama would have to spend MORE money to decrease the deficit.

There is no evidence for that.

[Apjak]

[trang]

I think the guy in the first video was talking mainly about the Euro markets, even though he is greedy fuckhead.

The mess is a collective from President Carter and forward, you can pencil whip it how ever you want, republican accountants, democrat accountants, or independent accountants, facts are facts we have an
ass load of debt because of bad policy and fiscal irresponsibility.

Our spending has outpaced the growth of the economy.
Tax system is unfair, imbalanced and not working.
Tax base is smaller.

We need to cut spending, its the only way out.

We need to cut tax's in the way of Reform, not specific targets. Reform with cuts (more balance than cuts) will grow jobs and the economy.

We need to increase the tax base ( Legalize 20 million immigrants, legalize marijuana package and sell it, Fix the trade deficits, make puerto rico a state? any other imperialistic left overs, make them a states,
annex canada and mexico? more problems than its worth I think. etc)

get the hell out of Afghanistan and Iraq NOW!!!, and stop fighting other peoples wars. ( i dont think people realize, we have a few hundred billion retooling of military to do when these conflicts are ended, even before, its not pretty. Our military readiness is being degraded)

Get rid of the senate, its 100 preening assholes who are not doing anything but waiting to be president.

pass a law that all lobbyists should be killed and its outlawed under that pain of death.

Um, abolish the party system, just elect representatives that actually work for their constituents.


ramble ramble. This can be done and it would, but no one is listening.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I know how you feel, a bunch of what you just said is exactly how I feel about our goverment up here, except that I really like our tax system, it's far from perfect, but not bad (we need to just get rid of sales tax and lump it in with income tax though, as much as I get angry whenever they lower the GST up here I'm only angry because they're not making it up in income taxes).

And yeah, the party system is junk, seriously absolute junk. Why do I have to vote for debt reduction AND crazy bigotry? But if I want to vote for legalizing pot and actual morality, then I have to vote for huge spending in the arts as well... the list goes on and on, it just doesn't work very well.

But hell, we all still live in pretty amazing places compared to a lot of the world!

[JustSomeGuy]

I've always wondered how it is that someone in office can spend so much time preparing to run for another office (and then actually running for that other office), and no one seems to mind. FUCK THAT.

[Freakzilla]

That's the problem, man. They vote to get re-elected.

[Nekhrun]

This can be done and it would, but no one is listening.

It can't all be done because there are people like me who believe exactly the opposite as you on some of the items in your list. Though I'm for getting all money out of politics. No fundraising at all, not from corporations, not from individuals and not even spending their own money. All elections should be publicly funded to make them accountable to their constituents.

That will never happen though because almost none of them represent us now.

I loved the research that came out last year detailing just how much better members of Congress tend to do in the stock market than the average person.

[trang]

This can be done and it would, but no one is listening.

It can't all be done because there are people like me who believe exactly the opposite as you on some of the items in your list. Though I'm for getting all money out of politics. No fundraising at all, not from corporations, not from individuals and not even spending their own money. All elections should be publicly funded to make them accountable to their constituents.

That will never happen though because almost none of them represent us now.

I loved the research that came out last year detailing just how much better members of Congress tend to do in the stock market than the average person.(lobbyists giving corp info to the Representatives and senators)

Your entitled to your opinion that is for sure, Which Items are you opposite on? (for discussion sake)


1.I think the guy in the first video was talking mainly about the Euro markets, even though he is greedy fuckhead. (Opposite this?)

2. The mess is a collective from President Carter and forward, you can pencil whip it how ever you want, republican accountants, democrat accountants, or independent accountants, facts are facts we have an ass load of debt because of bad policy and fiscal irresponsibility.(Opposite this?)

3. Our spending has outpaced the growth of the economy.(Opposite this?)
4. Tax system is unfair, imbalanced and not working. (Opposite this?)
5. Tax base is smaller.(Opposite this?)

6. We need to cut spending, its the only way out.(Opposite this?)

2 thru 6 arent my ideas, these are things that economists and people in the higher offices in government and other important people have been saying.


7.We need to increase the tax base ( Legalize 20 million immigrants, legalize marijuana package and sell it, Fix the trade deficits, make puerto rico a state? any other imperialistic left overs, make them a states,annex canada and mexico? more problems than its worth I think. etc)(Opposite this?)(some of my own ideas mixed in with media and other outlets ideas)

8. get the hell out of Afghanistan and Iraq NOW!!!, and stop fighting other peoples wars. ( i dont think people realize, we have a few hundred billion retooling of military to do when these conflicts are ended, even before, its not pretty. Our military readiness is being degraded)(Opposite this?)

9. Get rid of the senate, its 100 preening assholes who are not doing anything but waiting to be president.(Opposite this?) (definatly a personal idea, but Im sure others have mentioned it)

10. pass a law that all lobbyists should be killed and its outlawed under that pain of death.(Opposite this?)(defiantly my personal idea and preference)

11. Um, abolish the party system, just elect representatives that actually work for their constituents.
(Opposite this?) (my own idea, again im sure other think or have mentioned this.)

[Nekhrun]

This can be done and it would, but no one is listening.

It can't all be done because there are people like me who believe exactly the opposite as you on some of the items in your list. Though I'm for getting all money out of politics. No fundraising at all, not from corporations, not from individuals and not even spending their own money. All elections should be publicly funded to make them accountable to their constituents.

That will never happen though because almost none of them represent us now.

I loved the research that came out last year detailing just how much better members of Congress tend to do in the stock market than the average person.(lobbyists giving corp info to the Representatives and senators)

Your entitled to your opinion that is for sure, Which Items are you opposite on? (for discussion sake)


1.I think the guy in the first video was talking mainly about the Euro markets, even though he is greedy fuckhead. (Opposite this?)

2. The mess is a collective from President Carter and forward, you can pencil whip it how ever you want, republican accountants, democrat accountants, or independent accountants, facts are facts we have an ass load of debt because of bad policy and fiscal irresponsibility.(Opposite this?)

3. Our spending has outpaced the growth of the economy.(Opposite this?)
4. Tax system is unfair, imbalanced and not working. (Opposite this?)
5. Tax base is smaller.(Opposite this?)

6. We need to cut spending, its the only way out.(Opposite this?)

2 thru 6 arent my ideas, these are things that economists and people in the higher offices in government and other important people have been saying.


7.We need to increase the tax base ( Legalize 20 million immigrants, legalize marijuana package and sell it, Fix the trade deficits, make puerto rico a state? any other imperialistic left overs, make them a states,annex canada and mexico? more problems than its worth I think. etc)(Opposite this?)(some of my own ideas mixed in with media and other outlets ideas)

8. get the hell out of Afghanistan and Iraq NOW!!!, and stop fighting other peoples wars. ( i dont think people realize, we have a few hundred billion retooling of military to do when these conflicts are ended, even before, its not pretty. Our military readiness is being degraded)(Opposite this?)

9. Get rid of the senate, its 100 preening assholes who are not doing anything but waiting to be president.(Opposite this?) (definatly a personal idea, but Im sure others have mentioned it)

10. pass a law that all lobbyists should be killed and its outlawed under that pain of death.(Opposite this?)(defiantly my personal idea and preference)

11. Um, abolish the party system, just elect representatives that actually work for their constituents.
(Opposite this?) (my own idea, again im sure other think or have mentioned this.)

1. The guy's a greedy fuckhead.
2-6. I don't think debt is bad necessarily, but I'd like to see us go back to pre-Reagan tax levels, stop starting wars, invest heavily (I'm talking trillions, in solar, wind, wave, natural gas energies; cut defense spending by at least 50%; invest in high-speed rail; concrete highways and bridges (that tar shit they use here most of the time needs repair within a couple years (it's not for cold climates with hot winters); build state of the art schools and finally get broadband coverage to the entire country.

7. I'm not for the legalization of drugs, but I am for the decriminalization and medial uses of them. No reason to put people in prison for 20 years for stupid shit like that. I'd actually like to see that money used for rehabilitation and reform.

8. Agreed. As well as eliminate all existing bases in Europe. What's the point? They can handle it themselves.

9. Disagree, but I'm all for getting rid of the filibuster and setting legislation up for votes and giving them a 51-49 threshold.

10. Nope. I'm against the death penalty no matter what. The state has no right to kill its own citizens. Also, I think that lobbying can be a good thing when people work collectively to push an agenda. I am for eliminating the corporate influences though. I'd like to see laws against lobbyists getting jobs in any political office & vice versa.

11. I'd be open to hearing more, but I don't think it would work. Too much money in the system now and I'm not sure how it could be eliminated without some constitutional amendments (which I'm open to).

I think there might be room for someone like you and me to have discussions about how we achieve some of these things, but I'm quite certain that no politicians are as well educated nor as open-minded as we are.

I've met quite a few politicians, both state and at the federal level through some of my friends and almost all of them were so stupid it made me sad. They're a bunch of puppets with very little going on except a need to be liked and a willingness to sell out.

[Freakzilla]

[JustSomeGuy]

cut defense spending by at least 50%

Whoa! Listen, I speak from a place of ignorance. Is that even possible?

[Nekhrun]

cut defense spending by at least 50%

Whoa! Listen, I speak from a place of ignorance. Is that even possible?

Not with the assholes running things. We easily outspend the rest of the world combined. What's the fucking point when everything is small teams & drones these days?

Hell, I'd cut it by 100%. What would happen? Nothing. If someone attacked us the whole country would be crawling with people trying to fight them.