We got bin Laden!

[Hunchback Jack]

It's amazing the lengths you will go to to argue about anything to avoid having to back up your theories. You argue about the number of people in the conspiracy even after weve agreed, and I say it doesn't matter anyway, avoiding the main point I was making which was that you have a burden of proof to carry. You call Lundse an outright liar in the hope of provoking a flame war rather than answer his questions.

I'm tempted to call troll at this point. You're way more interested in the argument itself than in the topic of discussion. If we all started calling Obama a liar, you'd start supporting him, I suspect. I'm done.

HBJ

[Omphalos]

Want the phone number to my clinic then?

Easily faked.

In what way would that be easily faked? The existence of the clinic could easily be verified with a simple address and phone number search. While confidentiality of my files would be there, I'm sure they could answer that at least that I attend appointments there. Go ahead, Mr. smugness, make my day.

1-253-581-7020

Ask about a patient named Leeland Deney.

Ah. We again get to the point of all this useless shit. Last time it was a flame war that resulted in you playing the mental card. Here it is again. This is all you going "mememememememe!!!!". Just stop and go away. I'm a little sick of it.

[Omphalos]

- sheeeeit!

You watched "The Wire" as well? Best tv series ever

Just finished an entire rewatch lat week.

[Nekhrun]

Okay, it's Mother's Day, wow me.

I guess it's getting harder and harder to be a dumb-fuck considering all of the information that's coming out. Still want to claim he's been dead for years? Or is the video of Osama watching himself on TV with a picture of Obama that comes up some kind of government lie as well? Maybe you could tie all this birther/deather shit together as well.

Also, why don't you take a look at the sheet you signed when you went to one of your appointments in the last year. They're called HIPPA Laws dumbass . They can't give out any information. http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or do you sign things without reading them, just trusting what some authority wants you to believe?

[Freakzilla]

It's special ops night on The Military Channel.

[TheDukester]

It's special ops night on The Military Channel.

Of course! The perfect material for Mothers' Day!

[Lundse]

You claim Osama has been dead for a long time. You absolutely, 100% need this claim to be true, in order for your position to make any sense. Please back up said claim...


You talk, and talk, and talk about how hard you think it is to get a dialysis machine, how many spies loyal to America you happen to believe lives near Osama's mansion, whether you like the current war in Lybia, etc. etc. None of it matters.

You still misunderstand my point about the DNA, and _how many would have to be in on it_ in order for your pet theory to be right. Seriously. You are not making a lick of sense in your replies - they have nothing to do with my argument! You comment that "Sorry, it looked at the time that you were trying to argue that the former administration should call on him despite that they've been sitting on his death for years" is plain wrong. It never looked like that, just like I do not need to tell you the names of the scientist. I am telling you how many people would have to be in on it - we can make that little calculation without knowing their names. Read my arguments, understand it, then respond. Jeez...

You sidestep the issue of why everyone is so damn loyal by claiming a parallel to the WMD lies. There is no such parallel, and I told you why. The WMD lie was not based on fabricated evidence and outright lies, but spin. Very few people knew how bad the intelligence cited was, and they all worked under "don't talk to the press"-contracts. You are saying soldiers, flight leaders, K-9 unit trainers, press secretaries, and all of Obama's advisors are in on facricating evidence.

So no "Whatever kept Bush's staff silent about the phony WMD intelligence..." is not a proper response. You do get the difference between fabricating evidence and lying, and spinning bad intelligence and actionable, right?

Sigh. First of all, he would not use any of these means of communication, for those exact reasons. Do you think he has a hotmail account, a phone number? Secondly, if a red flag was raised, would the public (and hence Al-Queda) have been told? Who is kidding who?

We're told these terrorists are using web pages and email and radio and phones over and over again. Or do you only believe SITE when it conveniences you?

So because some terrorists or their accomplishes are using email and phones, Osama himself must also do so? Is this what you are arguing?

Also, you skip over the fact that even if he did, and red flags went off on a daily basis, the CIA would hardly be broadcasting this in public.

So no, no sign of Osama _as seen from you, a member of the public_ does not mean "he must be dead". That you have not heard about him being caught using email, and someone else in his organisation totally did, does not mean that he is dead.

Seriously, look over our conversation. This is your argument. You are saying that we never heard from him, and using this as support for your idea that he must be long dead. Do you see how ridiculous this is?

Let's list the statements, this will be fun:

1) Osama has friends that use email, phones, etc. that are tracable.
2) I think, for no conceivable reason, that this means Osama must be doing so too, if he were alive.
3) The CIA can trace and track some of this communication.
4) Since they can track some, they must have tracked his particular call. I don't know why I believe this...
5) If the CIA tracked Osama over such electronic surveillance, they would totally tell me, that is the whole world including Al Queda, that they had just done so.

Tell me this is not what you believe, please.

And then tell me again why you think no word from Osama can only be explained by his death.


Just to be clear, you are no longer claiming that government officials under the current administration need, or have used, Osama as a bogeyman? Only Bush did that?

So just to be clear:
- Bush et al. wanted people to think Osama was still alive, and did not want the credit for killing him.
- Obama et al. do want the credit for killing him, and no longer need the bogeyman.

Is this right? This is what you believe. How do you feel on this one:
- Bush and the McCain campaign would rather let Obama keep using Bin Laden as a bogeyman, or claim the credit for killing him, than claim the credit for the Republican party.
Do you believe this, or do you have some other explanation for why _they did not do as you say Osama just did_?


Your links have nothing to do with the WMD arguments. I have no clue why you included them as a response to it. You bring up my argument, that if they claim to have the evidence, they must be ready to back it up. Your "some people did not like Obama"-link has no relevance, of course - but that some Republicans want to see the evidence is exactly what I was talking about. Of course someone will ask for it. And eventually someone will be showed it. And from your assumptions about the hundreds of people who are not now contradicting Obama despite having every reason to do so, if your theory is correct, I can only assume that when said Republicans, judges or whoever will be given a private showing come out satisfied, you will assume that they toop are in on it.
Or maybe they have just been threatened to be fired...


"None of the dead men in those pictures appear to have been armed."

A closeup of one guy's face, not with a gun lying on top of it, and you are calling "they were not armed"? Seriously? If they are going to lie to the American public, don¨t you think they could have included some guns in the picture of the corpses they got for the occassion? You don't think the US army have a few lying around? Did you and your friends just spot another huge whole in their devious plan? This is sounding more and more like the moon landing - "where are the stars?"


Also, get this. I do not know who SITE is. I have no clue why you brought them up. I do not need them - but you apparently need to say something about their evidence, as if that has some bearing on the simple facts:

(This is it, btw, your last chance, if you cannot by now comprehend this, you never will and this discussion is over. Respond to this, or do not respond at all).


1) If Bin Laden was alive just prior to the attack, it would make no sense for Obama to claim to have killed him, as Bin Laden could the proceed to make him out to be a fool and liar the next day.
2) If Bin Laden was dead just prior to the attack (for however long), Obama could conceivably be lying without being a completely moron.
3) Osama Bin Laden, must, unless we assume Obama to be retarded, both be dead - and be known to a ludicrous amount of certainty to be so, by Obama.

Do you disagree with any one of these? Is 1, 2 or 3 not all true?

So for your position to make either the slightest sense, you must either prove, or at least prove this to be as likely as "they just caught Bin Laden", either:
A) Obama is retarded.
B) Osama was dead already.


You "proofs" that Osama was dead so far amount to:

- Some people said so on TV.
- I think he needed dialysis and could not afford or procure a dialysis machine.
- I have not heard from him personally, nor have the CIA shared with me their intelligence that they heard from him.

Now, do you want to elaborate on any of these "proofs", because they are, and I am straining myself to keep this civil here, so lets just go with "weak".

[Lundse]

Let me try to address this burden of proof issue.

Thank you! Very succinctly put!

[A Thing of Eternity]

Alright, it's time for me to come clean... he has been dead for about 6 years. I killed him. No idea how they think they can get away with claiming credit for my work, which was done 6 years ago.

[TheDukester]

Okay, whoever had Thing in our "Killed bin Ladn" pool, email me to collect your winnings:

duke@wingnutparanoia.com

[SandRider]

dang, you kids ain't learnt nothin I done been teaching you for years now ....

*sigh*

awright, gimme a minute ... granpa needs him a drank, then he'll sit down
and explain all this to you ....

[Kojiro]

I guess it's getting harder and harder to be a dumb-fuck considering all of the information that's coming out. Still want to claim he's been dead for years? Or is the video of Osama watching himself on TV with a picture of Obama that comes up some kind of government lie as well?

Who the hell films themself watching the TV? That video is completely bizarre! Hell, the purported "bin Laden" in that tape is conveniently facing away from the camera. This is suppose to be proof?

You claim Osama has been dead for a long time. You absolutely, 100% need this claim to be true, in order for your position to make any sense. Please back up said claim...

Back up Mr. President's claim first.

You talk, and talk, and talk about how hard you think it is to get a dialysis machine, how many spies loyal to America you happen to believe lives near Osama's mansion, whether you like the current war in Lybia, etc. etc. None of it matters.

Yeah, *huff*... medical records are pointless. We should believe the president because he's the president. So what if he lived in area filled with American troops and spies, bin Laden had magical powers that could make him disappear at will; look how well they worked in Tora Bora.

You still misunderstand my point about the DNA, and _how many would have to be in on it_ in order for your pet theory to be right.

No, you misunderstand. If there was really DNA, where's the people who tested it? Where's the lab? No details are given on this.

Seriously. You are not making a lick of sense in your replies - they have nothing to do with my argument! You comment that "Sorry, it looked at the time that you were trying to argue that the former administration should call on him despite that they've been sitting on his death for years" is plain wrong. It never looked like that,

Okay, short, simple sentences instead of long, complicated ones: I misread it.

just like I do not need to tell you the names of the scientist. I am telling you how many people would have to be in on it

Asspull numbers like Hunchback? You're presuming these geneticists exist in the first place. Well, where's their lab? What's it called?

- we can make that little calculation without knowing their names.

No we can't, because we don't even have a lab identified.

You sidestep the issue of why everyone is so damn loyal by claiming a parallel to the WMD lies. There is no such parallel, and I told you why. The WMD lie was not based on fabricated evidence and outright lies, but spin. Very few people knew how bad the intelligence cited was,

Bullshit. Practically all of the rest of the world saw straight through it. Lies are lies are lies are lies.

and they all worked under "don't talk to the press"-contracts. You are saying soldiers, flight leaders, K-9 unit trainers, press secretaries, and all of Obama's advisors are in on facricating evidence.

If you can't see the irony here, I feel sorry for you.

So no "Whatever kept Bush's staff silent about the phony WMD intelligence..." is not a proper response. You do get the difference between fabricating evidence and lying, and spinning bad intelligence and actionable, right?

Sigh. First of all, he would not use any of these means of communication, for those exact reasons. Do you think he has a hotmail account, a phone number? Secondly, if a red flag was raised, would the public (and hence Al-Queda) have been told? Who is kidding who?

We're told these terrorists are using web pages and email and radio and phones over and over again. Or do you only believe SITE when it conveniences you?

So because some terrorists or their accomplishes are using email and phones, Osama himself must also do so? Is this what you are arguing?

Well I don't think he'd be using two tin cans connected by string. He'd have to be coordinating in some way. Hell, if we're to believe the new "bin Laden from the rear" footage, he had cable/satellite. Subscriptions are trackable too.

Also, you skip over the fact that even if he did, and red flags went off on a daily basis, the CIA would hardly be broadcasting this in public.

But Lundse, think of how many people would have to be in on it. Thousands of thousands of millions. Surely someone would feel the need to tell the press.

Seriously, though, we only gank him now? Not earlier?

So no, no sign of Osama _as seen from you, a member of the public_ does not mean "he must be dead". That you have not heard about him being caught using email, and someone else in his organisation totally did, does not mean that he is dead.

Seriously, look over our conversation. This is your argument. You are saying that we never heard from him, and using this as support for your idea that he must be long dead. Do you see how ridiculous this is?

Y'know, you're right. In fact, I just saw Tupac at the store the other day.

Let's list the statements, this will be fun:

1) Osama has friends that use email, phones, etc. that are tracable.
2) I think, for no conceivable reason, that this means Osama must be doing so too, if he were alive.
3) The CIA can trace and track some of this communication.
4) Since they can track some, they must have tracked his particular call. I don't know why I believe this...
5) If the CIA tracked Osama over such electronic surveillance, they would totally tell me, that is the whole world including Al Queda, that they had just done so.

Tell me this is not what you believe, please.

Of course not, but that's not what I meant by signs of life, so your argument is pathetically sad. This was a guy who used to make regular televised or videotaped appearances, and then just kind of... stopped.

And then tell me again why you think no word from Osama can only be explained by his death.

Is Saddam still talking then? Does Elvis still give regular interviews? Did John Lennon release anymore albums? Did Douglas Adams write a new Hitchhiker's?

Just to be clear, you are no longer claiming that government officials under the current administration need, or have used, Osama as a bogeyman? Only Bush did that?

So just to be clear:
- Bush et al. wanted people to think Osama was still alive, and did not want the credit for killing him.
- Obama et al. do want the credit for killing him, and no longer need the bogeyman.

Is this right? This is what you believe. How do you feel on this one:
- Bush and the McCain campaign would rather let Obama keep using Bin Laden as a bogeyman, or claim the credit for killing him, than claim the credit for the Republican party.
Do you believe this, or do you have some other explanation for why _they did not do as you say Osama just did_?

I think they were betting on the bogeyman to get them their GOP election. Bad bet. You act like these guys were psychic and knew Obama was going to win.

Your links have nothing to do with the WMD arguments. I have no clue why you included them as a response to it.

One administration's lie versus another administration's lie.

You bring up my argument, that if they claim to have the evidence, they must be ready to back it up. Your "some people did not like Obama"-link has no relevance, of course - but that some Republicans want to see the evidence is exactly what I was talking about. Of course someone will ask for it. And eventually someone will be showed it. And from your assumptions about the hundreds of people who are not now contradicting Obama despite having every reason to do so, if your theory is correct, I can only assume that when said Republicans, judges or whoever will be given a private showing come out satisfied, you will assume that they toop are in on it.
Or maybe they have just been threatened to be fired...

Presumptuous.

"None of the dead men in those pictures appear to have been armed."

A closeup of one guy's face, not with a gun lying on top of it, and you are calling "they were not armed"? Seriously? If they are going to lie to the American public, don¨t you think they could have included some guns in the picture of the corpses they got for the occassion? You don't think the US army have a few lying around? Did you and your friends just spot another huge whole in their devious plan? This is sounding more and more like the moon landing - "where are the stars?"

Did you ever look at the Reuters pictures? They're not exactly hard to find. Oh, and guns seen from Earth are easier to see than diminutive light sources filmed on a lifeless rock.

Here you go: http://www.reuters.com/subjects/bin-laden-compound" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, get this. I do not know who SITE is.

It's where the Al Qaeda "confirmation" news came from. It's where all of those dubious audio tapes that perpetuated Bush's bogeyman Osama came from. If you didn't know who they were, you shouldn't be arguing this point. They're a government contractor run by the daughter of a Israeli Mossad spy that use questionable methods to survey the Internet and other communications. They're based between the DOD and the Israeli Embassy to America. They're also endorsed by the torturers in chief, Blackwater. They've also been caught red handed manufacturing terrorist tapes in the past to fuel Bush's propaganda.

I wouldn't even trust them as far as I could throw them. They're not reputable.

I have no clue why you brought them up. I do not need them - but you apparently need to say something about their evidence, as if that has some bearing on the simple facts:

Oh, they have quite a bit of bearing if you want to bring in the zombie Osama mixed tapes.

(This is it, btw, your last chance, if you cannot by now comprehend this, you never will and this discussion is over. Respond to this, or do not respond at all).


1) If Bin Laden was alive just prior to the attack, it would make no sense for Obama to claim to have killed him, as Bin Laden could the proceed to make him out to be a fool and liar the next day.

Um... am I misreading this? Do you mean after? If he really was alive prior, then that would be the end of the argument, wouldn't it? Unless you're arguing that he's just claiming to kill him despite him remaining alive anyway, then yes, that would be stupid.

2) If Bin Laden was dead just prior to the attack (for however long), Obama could conceivably be lying without being a completely moron.

True.

3) Osama Bin Laden, must, unless we assume Obama to be retarded, both be dead - and be known to a ludicrous amount of certainty to be so, by Obama.

Riiiight.

Do you disagree with any one of these? Is 1, 2 or 3 not all true?

So for your position to make either the slightest sense, you must either prove, or at least prove this to be as likely as "they just caught Bin Laden", either:
A) Obama is retarded.
B) Osama was dead already.


You "proofs" that Osama was dead so far amount to:

- Some people said so on TV.
- I think he needed dialysis and could not afford or procure a dialysis machine.

Are you arguing he didn't need dialysis, because that would be very funny considering the number of medical officials that say otherwise. Presumably there'd have to be records of him procuring a dialysis machine? Doctors and hospitals just don't sell equipment without ensuring it's being used properly. It's like medication and other prescriptional equipment like orthopedic shoes or glasses or home IV systems. If Osama was still alive with his bad kidneys, then there must be medical records. It's that simple.

For some reading on his health:
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/US/02/01/ge ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/no ... .terrorism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.salon.com/people/feature/2001/11/09/marfan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He was a very sick man.

- I have not heard from him personally, nor have the CIA shared with me their intelligence that they heard from him.

See above where I talked about his former TV appearances. This was allegedly a terrorist leader, so he needs to... well... lead and he did quite often by broadcasting on pirate stations or video. Then he's quiet.

Now, do you want to elaborate on any of these "proofs", because they are, and I am straining myself to keep this civil here, so lets just go with "weak".

Says you.

[Robspierre]

You're going to need more than a drank, jizzydam has returned to form and is posting shit flung gibberish at the interwebs on Amazon.

I find browsing the forum is easier with Kojiro on my ignore list. "Scuse me, the girls are beckoning from the hot tub again.

Rob

[SandRider]

after the "escape" from Tora Bora, on 27 Dec 2001, Al Jazeera
released a video of Osama, either made at Tora Bora before
the battle, or in a safe house sometime after. (Osama neither
denied nor claimed "responsibility" for whatever it was that
happened on 9/11/01)

over the next three years, the "Osama is probably dead" stories
started coming and going, depending on who wanted to get on
TeeVee and so forth; speculation that the "Bush Administration"
1) knew Osama had died and kept it a "secret" started in the summer
of 2003, after the search for Saddam's "Weapons" got all hokey ...
2) had kept the targeted killing of Osama by the CIA or COINTELPRO,
or whoever, a secret started during the 2004 primaries; Bush would
"roll out" the body at an expedient time during the fall campaign ...

of course, what happened was that Al Jazeera released another video
tape (the only tape of any type the People Who Decide Shit decided
was actually Osama since the Dec. 2001 tape) in which he claimed
all kinds of "responsibility" for whatever it was that happened on
9/11/01 .... so the idea that the "Bush Administration" had "kept
him alive for a "boogeyman", or had killed him and stuck the body
in a freezer in Dick Cheney's basement both kinda fell thru ...

but of course, Dick's smarter than he looks, and I done warned you
people into buying into George W.'s "Aww shucks, I'm just an old
country boy" bullshit ... the video bumped W. ten points in the
"polls" overnight ...

okay, that's just the recap - you people should know this,
fuck it ain't like we're talking the Korean War or something
you weren't around for ...

the three-year window when all the "conspiracy" talk started
(along with some serious questions about whatever it was that
actually happened on 9/11/01, plus the obvious horseshit that
was shoveled over Saddam's Death Rays) was the period when
nobody knew where the fuck he was ...

[Mandy]

Are you arguing he didn't need dialysis, because that would be very funny considering the number of medical officials that say otherwise. Presumably there'd have to be records of him procuring a dialysis machine? Doctors and hospitals just don't sell equipment without ensuring it's being used properly. It's like medication and other prescriptional equipment like orthopedic shoes or glasses or home IV systems. If Osama was still alive with his bad kidneys, then there must be medical records. It's that simple.

For some reading on his health:
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/US/02/01/ge ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/no ... .terrorism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.salon.com/people/feature/2001/11/09/marfan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He was a very sick man.

None of the links prove anything. It's all speculation!

You know, one of those links says that he ordered a mobile dialysis machine? Also, if he did order the machine and received it the records aren't going to be online for the public to read. Medical records are private, I imagine even in third world countries... especially when the client is a wealthy Saudi.

I'd rather read the statements of the medical professionals who claim Bin Laden needed dialysis than articles with reporters speculating on his health based on his appearance. Do you have any links for those?

[Kojiro]

Are you arguing he didn't need dialysis, because that would be very funny considering the number of medical officials that say otherwise. Presumably there'd have to be records of him procuring a dialysis machine? Doctors and hospitals just don't sell equipment without ensuring it's being used properly. It's like medication and other prescriptional equipment like orthopedic shoes or glasses or home IV systems. If Osama was still alive with his bad kidneys, then there must be medical records. It's that simple.

For some reading on his health:
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/US/02/01/ge ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/no ... .terrorism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.salon.com/people/feature/2001/11/09/marfan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He was a very sick man.

None of the links prove anything. It's all speculation!

You know, one of those links says that he ordered a mobile dialysis machine? Also, if he did order the machine and received it the records aren't going to be online for the public to read. Medical records are private, I imagine even in third world countries... especially when the client is a wealthy Saudi.

I'd rather read the statements of the medical professionals who claim Bin Laden needed dialysis than articles with reporters speculating on his health based on his appearance. Do you have any links for those?

That just kinda proved that you didn't read them all. The third article has a couple professionals quoted in it. Here's an excerpt.

"He is Marfanoid," says Dr. Richard Devereux, a clinician who treats patients with the illness at the Weill Cornell Medical Center in New York. "He seems to have long fingers and long arms. His head appears to be elongated and his face narrow ... It's certainly conceivable that he has the Marfan syndrome and could be evaluated for it."

[TheDukester]

It's all speculation!

The wingnut conspiracy theorist's best friend!

[Mandy]

Kojiro, the doctor you quoted, did he actually examine Bin Laden or just his videos? A doctor can't diagnose someone just by looking at a picture.

[Lawliet]

Am i stoned or is this thread real?

[TheDukester]

Am i stoned or is this thread real?

A little of both ...

[Kojiro]

He can certainly form a hypothesis. If he wasn't dying from failing kidneys and whatever other complications, why was there all the intelligence about it? Hell, a Bush official even pushed that the terrorist leader was in need of dialysis.

http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiap ... .binladen/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In Washington, a senior Bush administration official said Musharraf reached "reasonable conclusion" but warned it is only a guess.

"He is using very reasonable deductive reasoning, (but) we don't know (bin Laden) is dead," said the official, who requested anonymity. "We don't have remains or evidence of his death. So it is a decent and reasonable conclusion -- a good guess but it is a guess."

The official said U.S. intelligence is that bin Laden needs dialysis every three days and "it is fairly obvious that that could be an issue when you are running from place to place, and facing the idea of needing to generate electricity in a mountain hideout."

Then there's the fact that this guy was looking worse and worse as the months passed on.

http://edition.cnn.com/2002/US/02/01/ge ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Take note how he gets paler, thinner, and grayer.

[TheDukester]

Take note how he gets paler, thinner, and grayer.

Right. That is your idea of "proof"?



Koko, listen to me: stop acting like a fucking retard. Seriously.

[Kojiro]

Take note how he gets paler, thinner, and grayer.

Right. That is your idea of "proof"?

Are you implying such a rapid decline in health is normal for someone with ten more years to live? He frankly looks horrible in that third picture when compared to the first.

[TheDukester]

I'm not implying anything. What I will tell you — since you clearly don't have an inkling of a clue — is that the available lighting would account for somewhere between 90 to 99 percent of the differences in those images. If you knew anything at all about photography/videography — which you clearly do not — you'd know how important light is. So, again, we have a stellar example of you speaking directly from your asshole.

As far as the third image goes, here's a radical thought: maybe he was tired. Maybe his terrorist buddies shot that footage just before sleepy-time. Or first thing in the morning. Or just before OBL was going to go take a massive crap, which made him cranky. No massive conspiracy, no forensic analysis of the footage needed ... it's just a tired old man.

If you were to take images of yourself every hour for a day, you would notice changes, too, even though all the shots were from the same day. Our faces (along with posture, attitude, etc., etc.) change as we get tired. Try it some time — it might give you something to do.

You really need to go outside. I'm not even kidding. Just turn off the computer and go do something else. Anything else.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Are you SERIOUS?! THOSE are the pics that show him "dying"? For fucks sake kiddo, he looks FINE in that last pic, and you can't say a single thing about complexion because it's so poorly photographed that it's almost BLACK AND WHITE and as such we cannot tell if it was simply lit differently. Does he look slightly thinner? Sure, but it's not even "for sure" it's just "kinda looks thinner" dude, he looks like he's lost 5-10 pounds at most.

Seriously man, I know some white folks don't see brown people very often but let me tell you something. They have dark circles under their eyes that sometimes are almost gone, sometimes almost look like they've been punched in the face -totally independant of their health. When photographed (even in person actually), they can easily look either overweight or starved, depending on the angle of their head, the lighting, etc, nothing AT ALL to do with their health. It has to do with their bone structure having pronounced cheekbones and their darker skin. And their complexion? Buddy, my exgirlfriend (half Indian, pretty brown looking) would look dark enough to be full-blood Indian after the summer (like that first photo of Osama is right after the SUMMER) and then she'd be almost down to slightly-tanned-white-person by the time January rolled around (note the MONTH OF THAT LAST PHOTO!). EDIT: And if you're going to call BS on that comparison because Osama wasn't "up north" like I am, I'm calling BS on that counter-point in advance. My point isn't that it was winter and thusly he was less tanned, my point is that spending more time inside can degrade a tan very very quickly, a couple months of reduced sunlight can turn someone who's middle eastern/Indian from dark brown to olive coloured no problem at all. So if he was staying out of the sun, that alone would easily explain his colouring getting lighter (and I'm NOT saying that those photos even show that, as they are CLEARLY LIT COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY).

I'm serious man, if you or anyone else looks at those 3 photos and sees a person who is wasting away, getting sick, dying, you are delusional. You should stick to your other evidence, because I spend a lot of time around brown folks, and I can tell you Osama looks totally FINE in that last picture.


Fuck man, my ex looked more haggard and sickly than Osama does in that photo when she was hung over!!!

EDIT: And I should have read Duke's post before mine, he really nailed it pretty clearly. Those pictures look like the difference between a tired person and a person who's well rested, a thirsty person and a hydrated one, a well-lit photoshoot and a poorly lit one (or several different poorly lit ones actually). Seriously, only a complete IDIOT would look at those photos and draw the conclusion that his health was going down the tubes.