Paul of Dune spoilers

Serkanner · Post by **Serkanner** » 03 Oct 2008 10:28

I read on dumbnovels a post by Simon about the fate of the Tleilaxu Kwisatz Haderach. According to the hacks he was killed by Marie "wunderkind" Fenring ... but ... when we read Dune Messiah we can read:

"Because we once bred a kwisatz haderach of our own," Scytale said.
With a quick movement of her old head, the Reverend Mother looked up at him.
"You didn't tell us that!" she accused.
"You didn't ask," Scytale said.
"How did you overcome your kwisatz haderach?" Irulan asked.
"A creature who has spent his life creating one particular representation of his selfdom will die rather than become the antithesis of that representation," Scytale said.
"I do not understand," Edric ventured.
"He killed himself," the Reverend Mother growled.
"Follow me well, Reverend Mother," Scytale warned, using a voice mode which said: You are not a sex object, have never been a sex object, cannot be a sex object.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 03 Oct 2008 10:31

Serkanner wrote:I read on dumbnovels a post by Simon about the fate of the Tleilaxu Kwisatz Haderach. According to the hacks he was killed by Marie "wunderkind" Fenring ... but ... when we read Dune Messiah we can read:

"Because we once bred a kwisatz haderach of our own," Scytale said.
With a quick movement of her old head, the Reverend Mother looked up at him.
"You didn't tell us that!" she accused.
"You didn't ask," Scytale said.
"How did you overcome your kwisatz haderach?" Irulan asked.
"A creature who has spent his life creating one particular representation of his selfdom will die rather than become the antithesis of that representation," Scytale said.
"I do not understand," Edric ventured.
"He killed himself," the Reverend Mother growled.
"Follow me well, Reverend Mother," Scytale warned, using a voice mode which said: You are not a sex object, have never been a sex object, cannot be a sex object.

D'oh!

I wonder how they will retcon that?

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » 03 Oct 2008 10:56

Margot isn't a BG anymore?
Or not playing along them

Again, find dificult to believe that Margot didn't send a message about the KH to the Sisterhood.

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 03 Oct 2008 11:45

Freakzilla wrote:
Serkanner wrote:I read on dumbnovels a post by Simon about the fate of the Tleilaxu Kwisatz Haderach. According to the hacks he was killed by Marie "wunderkind" Fenring ... but ... when we read Dune Messiah we can read:

"Because we once bred a kwisatz haderach of our own," Scytale said.
With a quick movement of her old head, the Reverend Mother looked up at him.
"You didn't tell us that!" she accused.
"You didn't ask," Scytale said.
"How did you overcome your kwisatz haderach?" Irulan asked.
"A creature who has spent his life creating one particular representation of his selfdom will die rather than become the antithesis of that representation," Scytale said.
"I do not understand," Edric ventured.
"He killed himself," the Reverend Mother growled.
"Follow me well, Reverend Mother," Scytale warned, using a voice mode which said: You are not a sex object, have never been a sex object, cannot be a sex object.
D'oh! I wonder how they will retcon that?

OO! I know! They'll say that Irulan wrote down the Tleilax History wrong! Secret agenda y'know?

Ghanima Atreides · Post by **Ghanima Atreides** » 03 Oct 2008 11:51

I can predict how they're going to explain this: they'll claim it's the character's point of view, and that Scytale was lying. After all, that's the card they always play.

Serkanner · Post by **Serkanner** » 03 Oct 2008 11:51

At first I thought they would immediatly defend their mistake by stating Scytale wanted the BG to think their KH had commited suicide ... then I realized Mohiam is a truthsayer...

Ghanima Atreides · Post by **Ghanima Atreides** » 03 Oct 2008 11:54

Good point...though it would be just the kind of plot loophole they'd use. Or say Mohiam had her own reasons to keep the truth to herself.

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » 03 Oct 2008 14:08

Page 301, Dune Encyclopedia Margot Fenrig entry

..of a blessed female child among
the Bene Tleilax. It is speculated that,
despite Emperor Paul's directives,
enormous prices were exacted by the
Spacing Guild for transporting the
shattered remains of Shaddam IV's
court to Salusa Secundus, and Shaddam
incurred continued debts with the Bene
Tleilax and the Ixians in covert
attempts to reestablish himself. Lady
Margot's valuable three-year-old
daughter may have sufficed as payment
to the Bene Tleilax. The existence of
such a female child would coincide
with the legends of a "mater matrix"
that began to develop among the Bene
Tleilax in the early 10200s, a woman
who contributed astoundingly virile
heredity to their genetic machinations.
Indeed, the evolving legend of a
parthenogenetically reproduced female
of enormous power living on Tleilax...

Coincidence...yeah right, faggots.
Expect more in Jessica and Irulan...

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 03 Oct 2008 14:51

Yeah, because if the three of them went to Tleilax, you just know they got some DNA samples...

Oooo maybe they'll have Ghola Marie mate with all the Ghola Duncan's, that's how he becomes the Uber KH.

Sweet now I don't have to read Leto of Dune.

I say it again, in KJA's universe, the only thing that matters is the moment in which you are reading. All other rules are fluid.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 03 Oct 2008 21:58

Does anyone know who owns the copyright to The Encyclopedia at present? Do you think anyone from McNelly's family is watching this situation?

The Hacks say that they don't refer to the DE in their writing. If we point out similarities like this, they can just claim that FH was the originator of the idea (because they found it in the Holy Notes) and must have related it at some point to McNelly, who incorporated it himself or passed it along to the relevant DE contributor. With McNelly dead, who is left to contradict them?

The Margot Fenring article bears the initials "R.C.S." or Ray C. Shiflett. He and the other contributors besides McNelly might be worth tracking down, to see if they remember where various ideas came from.

Lundse · Post by **Lundse** » 04 Oct 2008 03:21

SandChigger wrote:Does anyone know who owns the copyright to The Encyclopedia at present? Do you think anyone from McNelly's family is watching this situation?

The Hacks say that they don't refer to the DE in their writing. If we point out similarities like this, they can just claim that FH was the originator of the idea (because they found it in the Holy Notes) and must have related it at some point to McNelly, who incorporated it himself or passed it along to the relevant DE contributor. With McNelly dead, who is left to contradict them?

The Margot Fenring article bears the initials "R.C.S." or Ray C. Shiflett. He and the other contributors besides McNelly might be worth tracking down, to see if they remember where various ideas came from.

In a perfect world they would go to court and have to show the notes...

inhuien · Post by **inhuien** » 04 Oct 2008 04:54

I don't think that we need a perfect world necessarily, just a court room that wishes evidence presented to it substantiated.

Mr. Teg · Post by **Mr. Teg** » 04 Oct 2008 05:29

Ghost wrote:Page 301, Dune Encyclopedia Margot Fenrig entry

..of a blessed female child among
the Bene Tleilax. It is speculated that,
despite Emperor Paul's directives,
enormous prices were exacted by the
Spacing Guild for transporting the
shattered remains of Shaddam IV's
court to Salusa Secundus, and Shaddam
incurred continued debts with the Bene
Tleilax and the Ixians in covert
attempts to reestablish himself. Lady
Margot's valuable three-year-old
daughter may have sufficed as payment
to the Bene Tleilax. The existence of
such a female child would coincide
with the legends of a "mater matrix"
that began to develop among the Bene
Tleilax in the early 10200s, a woman
who contributed astoundingly virile
heredity to their genetic machinations.
Indeed, the evolving legend of a
parthenogenetically reproduced female
of enormous power living on Tleilax...
Coincidence...yeah right, faggots.
Expect more in Jessica and Irulan...

I smell blood...we got 'em.

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » 04 Oct 2008 07:13

inhuien wrote:I don't think that we need a perfect world necessarily, just a court room that wishes evidence presented to it substantiated.

We dont need a ''court room'', just a ''dark room'' with us, the hacks and sticks...many sticks.

sparafucile · Post by **sparafucile** » 04 Oct 2008 08:55

Baraka Bryan wrote:
Ghost wrote:Margot isn't a BG anymore?
Or not playing along them

yeah of course..FH made a rebellious BG so of course KJA has to have one that's has a child that's even more super-uber-KHish and wiser than alia.

stupid moron doesn't know how to do anything by try and one-up the people whose legacy he's destroying.

GET AN ORIGINAL IDEA DUMBASS!

don't you see? having the tleilaxu kh not actually kill himself is as original as they can get.

Seraphan · Post by **Seraphan** » 04 Oct 2008 16:40

Ghost wrote:
inhuien wrote:I don't think that we need a perfect world necessarily, just a court room that wishes evidence presented to it substantiated.
We dont need a ''court room'', just a ''dark room'' with us, the hacks and sticks...many sticks.

Preferably pointy sticks.
At this point the notes issue no longer matters, they've had ample time to forge them and say: "See?! We told you they existed!"
Too many contradictory stories were told by that pair. Even if the notes exist, the real ones will never see the light of day.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 04 Oct 2008 17:14

And the retcon explaining why Scytale said the BT KH killed himself will be very original as well.

Rakis · Post by **Rakis** » 04 Oct 2008 23:12

SandChigger wrote:And the retcon explaining why Scytale said the BT KH killed himself will be very original as well.

10 bucks Scytale is a hybrid facedancer/ghola of the BT KH with false memories of his actual death...

Serkanner · Post by **Serkanner** » 05 Oct 2008 04:47

Baraka Bryan wrote:
Rakis wrote:
SandChigger wrote:And the retcon explaining why Scytale said the BT KH killed himself will be very original as well.
10 bucks Scytale is a hybrid facedancer/ghola of the BT KH with false memories of his actual death...

damnit, that's so stupid it's plausible for them to write it

EDIT TO ADD: i just picked up PoD from the library today.. i'm going in :S

It was nice knowing you ... farewell my friend.

Seraphan · Post by **Seraphan** » 05 Oct 2008 08:48

Baraka Bryan wrote:
Rakis wrote:
SandChigger wrote:And the retcon explaining why Scytale said the BT KH killed himself will be very original as well.
10 bucks Scytale is a hybrid facedancer/ghola of the BT KH with false memories of his actual death...

damnit, that's so stupid it's plausible for them to write it

EDIT TO ADD: i just picked up PoD from the library today.. i'm going in :S

Requiescat in pace.

DuneFishUK · Post by **DuneFishUK** » 05 Oct 2008 12:41

I listened to the first 2 hours of the audiobook at work on Friday. It's actually pretty well read (by that Scott Brick) - I'd quite like to hear his reading of the originals, I reckon they'd be quite good.

Tomorrow though I'm thinking about putting "How to piss glass" onto my mp3 player instead...

('nuff said)

Robspierre · Post by **Robspierre** » 05 Oct 2008 12:44

DuneFishUK wrote:I listened to the first 2 hours of the audiobook at work on Friday. It's actually pretty well read (by that Scott Brick) - I'd quite like to hear his reading of the originals, I reckon they'd be quite good.

Tomorrow though I'm thinking about putting "How to piss glass" onto my mp3 player instead...

('nuff said)

I have all of them, they are very well done.

Rob

DuneFishUK · Post by **DuneFishUK** » 05 Oct 2008 12:57

Robspierre wrote:
DuneFishUK wrote:I listened to the first 2 hours of the audiobook at work on Friday. It's actually pretty well read (by that Scott Brick) - I'd quite like to hear his reading of the originals, I reckon they'd be quite good.

Tomorrow though I'm thinking about putting "How to piss glass" onto my mp3 player instead...

('nuff said)
I have all of them, they are very well done.

Rob

I like the sound of that.

I downloaded an audiobook of Dune ages ago - and it was horrible. Read in a really annoying boring voice that managed to put me off all audibooks until recently...

[Connor O'Brien is a cock end]

Post by **Freakzilla** » 05 Oct 2008 13:04

I have the Dune audio book by Audio Rennaisance, it's great.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 05 Oct 2008 16:13

I forget if anyone's brought this up yet, but it would make a great trivia question. (If we allowed CRAP questions!)

What is the one thing in the known universe that could make Stilgar scream like a woman?