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Lisan Al-Gaib
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Post by Lisan Al-Gaib »

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Hunchback Jack wrote:The Serena retconn makes me want to weep with anger and frustration.

If they want to write fucked up novels with lame plot devices outside the main sequence, then that's tolerable - barely. We can just squint the right way so that only the FH novels are visible. But inserting Serena/Omnius/Norma nonsense between canon novels to explain away complexities of character?

That's just wrong, wrong, wrong.

Thing, your Norma/Leto II prediction is all too likely. God help us.

HBJ
When I first realized that Chig had posted a real chapter I was so livid I stopped working for the first few hours (I read it shortly after I'd started my work in the morning).

Freak - we should start a bet with Byron that one of the new characters (probably Norma or Serena) ends up guiding LetoII and undermines everything about what FH wrote around the GP.

Either A: He'll accept the bet, not believing that KJABH would stoop that far, then he'll have to pay up when they do insist on doing so.
Or B: He accepts the bet and then tells KJABH not to do something that retarded - we have to pay up, but we don't have to hear about FH's legacy being further destroyed. I'm fine with that, I'd pay to stop them from doing all kinds of things.
Or C: He refuses the bet. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
Would be a nice movement toward them.

They already screw up everything on the expanded universe, and I think they can't go on kicking the old fans, or the fans that don't like their work.
They are old people, they have to start accepting critics.
The singular multiplicity of this universe draws my deepest attention. It is a thing of ultimate beauty.

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Hunchback Jack
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Post by Hunchback Jack »

SandChigger wrote:Or D: Delete the post and pretend it never happened! :lol:
D would be my bet. But I'm feeling cynical today.

HBJ
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TheDukester
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Post by TheDukester »

Hunchback Jack wrote:D would be my bet.
Mine too. The guy is a bigger pussy than Bri-Bri The Airplane Guy. And who has time for any sort of "discussion" when you're busy gushing about how the Hiking Hack and The Other Guy "outdid themselves"? :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Tleszer
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Post by Tleszer »

The Serena thing makes even less sense since this chapter takes place before Dune Messiah. As we all know, Hayt/Duncan was the first ghola to have his memories restored. Wouldn't this effectively nullify Duncan's significance in Dune Messiah?
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Ampoliros
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Post by Ampoliros »

It's a KJA signature to attempt to inject his own "creations" (that took a lot of strength to write, I'll put it in quotation marks) as major characters in the Universe he hacks.

I'd suggest this answer:

E He doesn't accept the bet because he already knows they have done this.

KJA will pre-retconn Leto II's mentioning of Norma with the 'writers' establishing a sick romantic relationship between the two because: "Norma is the only one who truly understands what its like to be a supreme omnipotent being. Let me tell you, it's not easy! But she has loved me for over 3500 years!" fin
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Mr. Teg
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Post by Mr. Teg »

Sounds to me like you all are plain jealous of Kevin :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Brian, Kevin & Byron :? :cylon101: :roll: The HLP
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Post by SandChigger »

Oh...gawd. Teg...Bint's at work and her cell-phone is off...call an ambulance for me, I can't crawl to the phone...I think my heart's giving out.

Oh...oh...it's because of this:
As before, Paul felt all sensation of his own body grow distant with the approach of the transcendent presence that called itself The Oracle.
:shock:
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
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Hunchback Jack
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Post by Hunchback Jack »

Oh great. So there is no prescience, there is only The Oracle.

Please tell me this is just a bad dream.

HBJ
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SimonH
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Post by SimonH »

SandChigger wrote:Oh...gawd. Teg...Bint's at work and her cell-phone is off...call an ambulance for me, I can't crawl to the phone...I think my heart's giving out.

Oh...oh...it's because of this:
As before, Paul felt all sensation of his own body grow distant with the approach of the transcendent presence that called itself The Oracle.
:shock:
:shock: :(

it appears all of our fears are have come true.

what could possibly be worse? I commend you sandchigger for being able to read this tripe. I hope you have a vomit bucket handy!
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Ampoliros
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Post by Ampoliros »

called it. what a piece of shit. rather than try to understand prescience, KJA just creates his own uber-power and uses that to answer all questions.

I think of all the things they've done to Dune, this one is truely unforgivable.
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Post by Serkanner »

"Read it and weep" was never more true. :cry:
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and wrote a Dune Novel."
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Seraphan
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Post by Seraphan »

Oh for fucking fuck's sake! The Oracle?! Are you shiting me?! I know their shiting on Franks work but seriously. Kevin? Stop using other peoples work to try climbing the latter and go fuck your own work.
SandChigger you sure you dont need a chicken soup? You're probably sick at this point. You have guts for reading that shit man, you have guts.
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Post by Ghost »

Well, that is sad a silly.

Surely they will explain (yeah, like they explained serena inside sheanna in Sandworms :? ), that it is a clone of the original Serena and so on...pretty lame.

I don't undestand the necessity to include every prequel/sequel/whatever shit character that they created (or not, pointing the finger to Hunters and Sandworms )in the most absurd and unexplicable situations.

I hate how thanks to the prequels everyone and every organization is related to everyone by ''family ties'' or whatever these dipshit heads made.
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Post by Secher_Nbiw »

i think to say you fit in quite well Ghost is a grave understatement!
I am a mortal god.
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Ampoliros
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Post by Ampoliros »

Ghost wrote:Well, that is sad a silly.

Surely they will explain (yeah, like they explained serena inside sheanna in Sandworms :? ), that it is a clone of the original Serena and so on...pretty lame.

I don't understand the necessity to include every prequel/sequel/whatever shit character that they created (or not, pointing the finger to Hunters and Sandworms )in the most absurd and unexplicable situations.

I hate how thanks to the prequels everyone and every organization is related to everyone by ''family ties'' or whatever these dipshit heads made.
Again this is Classic KJA. He's 'writing' himself so deep into the legend so as to make it require microsurgery and radiation therapy to get him out. Unfortunately his own work will never be considered Dune Canon, so it matters little in the long run. For the present, it makes us angry and nauseous to watch him shit all over something we hold dear.

He did this with Star Wars, its no surprise here. If anything it is more fuel to fire the furnace of the Orthodox Herbertian movement.
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Post by Freakzilla »

It continually amazes me that I have said this more than once, on several occasions in fact:

This is worse than I could have imagined.

:cry:
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A Thing of Eternity
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Post by A Thing of Eternity »

Freakzilla wrote:It continually amazes me that I have said this more than once, on several occasions in fact:

This is worse than I could have imagined.

:cry:
This is a million times worse than I'd ever imagined. This is worse than Sadworms.
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Freakzilla
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Post by Freakzilla »

I wish I'd heard about this before Dragon-Con.
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A Thing of Eternity
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Post by A Thing of Eternity »

Baraka Bryan wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I wish I'd heard about this before Dragon-Con.
methinks we'd be celebrating a funeral if that were the case
I was pretty upset after Sadworms, that doesn't even touch how I feel now.
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TheDukester
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Post by TheDukester »

Freakzilla wrote:This is worse than I could have imagined.
But ... but ... Byron said KJA and The Other Guy "outdid themselves." That, they, in fact, "kicked it into high gear." That it was, by God, "the best thing they'd ever written." So how can it not to be totally, like, awesome?
"Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.
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Re: Scan finished!

Post by Purge »

SandChigger wrote:10,197 AG

Four Years After the Fall of Shaddam IV

So many lives within me, so many voices! A lifetime would not suffice to listen to them all!
—Paul-Muad’Dib Atreides, Meditations of an Emperor

Night had come to Arrakeen, replacing the searing bedlam and broiling clamor of the day with something of the cool silent serenity of the deep desert. And yet Paul could not sleep. He lay awake on the luxurious bedding beside his beloved Chani and waited until her soft, measured breathing told him she was asleep, and then he arose and quietly wrapped himself in a light robe of fine Terrinian broccato before stepping out onto the wide balcony adjoining their bedroom. He signaled for the guard at the far end of the balcony to leave and watched as the man disappeared into a secret passage behind a cleverly concealed door.

At last the Emperor of the Known Universe was alone and stood gazing down upon the sleeping form of the city he had made his capital. How different the face it presented now from that which sweated in the dust and heat of the midday sun. Arrakeen of Dune . . . the name itself was enough to make the hearts of devoted converts leap within their breasts across the Imperium. The daytime streets of the city were choked to impassibility with the pilgrims who flocked to Arrakis, millions every year, overflowing from the shuttles which travelled back and forth all day between the Guild Heighliners in orbit and the growing spaceport on the outskirts of the city. From this vantage point he could see the lights of the landing fields, greatly expanded over the last couple of years to handle the increased volume of traffic.

Paul looked up at the almost unflickering stars and thought of the worlds that circled them, planets from which so many pilgrims came to worship him. And he thought about how many of those worlds were even now the scene of bloody battles in his name. He wanted to close his eyes but knew that doing so would only bring dreams . . . that would give way to the frightening visions that haunted his soul. And also bring the voices. . . .

The Jihad progressed, his fanatical holy warriors spreading ever further afield, bringing destruction to many of the star systems in their path. Paul was wracked with guilt over what he had unleashed on the universe, but still could see no way to rein in the bloodthirsty hordes of his followers. Every solution he imagined led only to even bloodier visions of the future. He was near to despair, made worse by the certain knowledge that his own suicide or death would only intensify the horrors still to come.

“What can I do?!” he implored of the night.

“Perhaps you need counsel other than your own.”

The woman’s voice had come from the far end of the balcony, in the shadows that hid the door to the passage the guard had used. Had some spy or assassin managed to invade his sanctum? A Reverend Mother of the hated Bene Gesserit?

He strained but could see no one there. Then, slowly, as if coalescing from the darkness itself, a figure moved slowly towards him.

“Who are you?!” he challenged, but the woman said nothing and continued to approach. Something about the figure reminded him of the stately, green-eyed beauty he called mother—Jessica. But no, she was on Caladan and he had not seen her since he had returned there with her for a visit three years before. Finally the woman came to a place where her face was lit by the lights of the city below and she stopped. Although by no means old, the face he saw was lined with care. Paul thought to himself that she had probably possessed a classical beauty when younger. Her hair was brown but streaked with gray, and her eyes were piercing. She looked familiar, but he didn’t recognize her.

“My name is the least important of the things that I can tell you,” she said. “I can teach you of the art of jihad, which you desperately need to learn!”

“Who are you?!”

“Never mind that. We haven’t much time this time. You fret and worry that your army is but a horde of fanatics yet seem to forget that a force of fighting fanatics is able to overcome any number of enemy soldiers and weapons!”

“I worry because I have seen the future. I disturbed and awed. The masses-”

“And I have lived the past. To guide, to manipulate the masses who flock to your banner is the only way to defend what must be preserved. To oppose them is to become a rock on the beach, broken and worn away by the tide.”

“Who ARE you?!” Paul cried, growing exasperated.

“Have you not figured it out by now? I am Serena Butler, the mother of all jihads.”
OK, this jerkass deserves a beheading.
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Ampoliros
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Post by Ampoliros »

I'll chip in for Bail money on whoever goes to the next Con.
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Re: Scan finished!

Post by Frybread »

SandChigger wrote:10,197 AG

Four Years After the Fall of Shaddam IV

So many lives within me, so many voices! A lifetime would not suffice to listen to them all!
—Paul-Muad’Dib Atreides, Meditations of an Emperor

Night had come to Arrakeen, replacing the searing bedlam and broiling clamor of the day with something of the cool silent serenity of the deep desert. And yet Paul could not sleep. He lay awake on the luxurious bedding beside his beloved Chani and waited until her soft, measured breathing told him she was asleep, and then he arose and quietly wrapped himself in a light robe of fine Terrinian broccato before stepping out onto the wide balcony adjoining their bedroom. He signaled for the guard at the far end of the balcony to leave and watched as the man disappeared into a secret passage behind a cleverly concealed door.

At last the Emperor of the Known Universe was alone and stood gazing down upon the sleeping form of the city he had made his capital. How different the face it presented now from that which sweated in the dust and heat of the midday sun. Arrakeen of Dune . . . the name itself was enough to make the hearts of devoted converts leap within their breasts across the Imperium. The daytime streets of the city were choked to impassibility with the pilgrims who flocked to Arrakis, millions every year, overflowing from the shuttles which travelled back and forth all day between the Guild Heighliners in orbit and the growing spaceport on the outskirts of the city. From this vantage point he could see the lights of the landing fields, greatly expanded over the last couple of years to handle the increased volume of traffic.

Paul looked up at the almost unflickering stars and thought of the worlds that circled them, planets from which so many pilgrims came to worship him. And he thought about how many of those worlds were even now the scene of bloody battles in his name. He wanted to close his eyes but knew that doing so would only bring dreams . . . that would give way to the frightening visions that haunted his soul. And also bring the voices. . . .

The Jihad progressed, his fanatical holy warriors spreading ever further afield, bringing destruction to many of the star systems in their path. Paul was wracked with guilt over what he had unleashed on the universe, but still could see no way to rein in the bloodthirsty hordes of his followers. Every solution he imagined led only to even bloodier visions of the future. He was near to despair, made worse by the certain knowledge that his own suicide or death would only intensify the horrors still to come.

“What can I do?!” he implored of the night.

“Perhaps you need counsel other than your own.”

The woman’s voice had come from the far end of the balcony, in the shadows that hid the door to the passage the guard had used. Had some spy or assassin managed to invade his sanctum? A Reverend Mother of the hated Bene Gesserit?

He strained but could see no one there. Then, slowly, as if coalescing from the darkness itself, a figure moved slowly towards him.

“Who are you?!” he challenged, but the woman said nothing and continued to approach. Something about the figure reminded him of the stately, green-eyed beauty he called mother—Jessica. But no, she was on Caladan and he had not seen her since he had returned there with her for a visit three years before. Finally the woman came to a place where her face was lit by the lights of the city below and she stopped. Although by no means old, the face he saw was lined with care. Paul thought to himself that she had probably possessed a classical beauty when younger. Her hair was brown but streaked with gray, and her eyes were piercing. She looked familiar, but he didn’t recognize her.

“My name is the least important of the things that I can tell you,” she said. “I can teach you of the art of jihad, which you desperately need to learn!”

“Who are you?!”

“Never mind that. We haven’t much time this time. You fret and worry that your army is but a horde of fanatics yet seem to forget that a force of fighting fanatics is able to overcome any number of enemy soldiers and weapons!”

“I worry because I have seen the future. I disturbed and awed. The masses-”

“And I have lived the past. To guide, to manipulate the masses who flock to your banner is the only way to defend what must be preserved. To oppose them is to become a rock on the beach, broken and worn away by the tide.”

“Who ARE you?!” Paul cried, growing exasperated.

“Have you not figured it out by now? I am Serena Butler, the mother of all jihads.”
Oh for fuck's sake! WHY WHY does KJA feel the need to bring his shitty characters into the timeline of the original six books?!?! This further proves my theory that he is trying to hijack Dune from FH by one-upping him.

For example, Leto 2 was the God Emperor so KJA has the super-duper-KH in Duncan and the Normacle. Paul had a jihad but he must learn from the Mother of All Jihads, Serena Butplug!

I'm pissed. I will now not read any more books by KJA and BH and will trash the ones I have already purchased!!!!!!
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Freakzilla
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Re: Scan finished!

Post by Freakzilla »

Frybread wrote:I'm pissed. I will now not read any more books by KJA and BH and will trash the ones I have already purchased!!!!!!
I decided around this time last year that it would be best for my sanity if I left it up to others to do the dirty work of reading this pulp crap. Sandchigger seems to thrive on it. I think his body heat comes from hating KJA.
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Hunchback Jack
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Post by Hunchback Jack »

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I was pretty upset after Sadworms, that doesn't even touch how I feel now.
Likewise. This isn't worse than I feared, but it's very much the worst I feared.

(My original reply to Chig's "Oracle retconn" quote was "FUCK! FUCK! FUCK FUCK! FUCK! FUCK!" but I toned it back a bit for the sake of coherance. But yeah, the anger is there.)

HBJ
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