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Posted: 28 Jun 2008 16:10
by orald
God Leto was innocent of all sin! Stop yer capitalist powindah propoganda, ya hear?
Ah, tyrant, tyrant, tyrant...what form of gov'
isn't tyranical anyway?
If you control something, and there're obviously going to be some differences in opinions, then you're already a tyrant to some degree.
Western democracy is a laughable tyrany as well, with the rulling classes decieving the common people with illusions of free choice of gov'.
But you and I don't influence the choices they make, only powerful industrialists etc.
On the other hand you have socialist/communist countries that don't even give you that illusion(they do promise better conditions and equality to all, but even that they don't deliever), for the "benefit of the people", of course.
God Leto was a tyrant, yes, because a ruler can't be anythign but a tyrant to at least some groups with every new decision that's made.
But God Leto was the only tyrant who worked for everyone else but himself.
![Crying or Very Sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon/cry.gif)
Posted: 28 Jun 2008 20:13
by SandChigger
(Yeah, yeah, yeah, we get the Leto worship thing already.)
His interests were the long-term interests of the species, so he put those about the short-term interests of his subjects.
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon/wink.gif)
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 04:19
by Phaedrus
Either way, it's a debate about whether or not a ruler in a science fiction novel set 20,000 years in the future fits into a minor detail(connotations?) of a definition from a publicly-edited encyclopedia. I daresay it's not something to get worked up about, especially when we agree that Kevin J. Anderson is a hack.
We can compromise and say that Leto's reign was a species oriented Tyrannical Republic.
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon/wink.gif)
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 04:20
by orald
No,no, no.
It's wor
Ship. You must learn how to worShip him.
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon/biggrin.gif)
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 12:26
by Mandy
Phaedrus,
Who's getting worked up? If every discussion is cut off because we all agree that KJA is a hack, what's the point of visiting this website? EVERY debate in this section of the site is about a "science fiction novel set 20,000 years in the future" are you saying that discussion of it isn't worthwhile? If not, what's your point?
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 13:23
by Phaedrus
Mandy wrote:Phaedrus,
Who's getting worked up? If every discussion is cut off because we all agree that KJA is a hack, what's the point of visiting this website? EVERY debate in this section of the site is about a "science fiction novel set 20,000 years in the future" are you saying that discussion of it isn't worthwhile? If not, what's your point?
I don't mind serious Dune discussion, but isn't this argument just a bit silly and purely semantics?
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 13:27
by inhuien
Phaedrus wrote:Mandy wrote:Phaedrus,
Who's getting worked up? If every discussion is cut off because we all agree that KJA is a hack, what's the point of visiting this website? EVERY debate in this section of the site is about a "science fiction novel set 20,000 years in the future" are you saying that discussion of it isn't worthwhile? If not, what's your point?
I don't mind serious Dune discussion, but isn't this argument just a bit silly and purely semantics?
^^^ Perhaps and yes.
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 15:07
by orald
Hmm, I just thought of a shirt design like "Jesus saves" with the 1d20 die etc, but with God Leto in a GEoD context.
I blame the long work day.
And the gas fumes.
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 16:06
by Mandy
Phaedrus wrote:Mandy wrote:Phaedrus,
Who's getting worked up? If every discussion is cut off because we all agree that KJA is a hack, what's the point of visiting this website? EVERY debate in this section of the site is about a "science fiction novel set 20,000 years in the future" are you saying that discussion of it isn't worthwhile? If not, what's your point?
I don't mind serious Dune discussion, but isn't this argument just a bit silly and purely semantics?
mjb0123 asked a question and we were discussing it. If this thread isn't super serious enough for you, you are free to go to a different thread, no? Should we find out what else you "don't mind" before discussing it?
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 16:23
by orald
Everything about Dune and God Leto is serious business.
![Cool 8)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 16:44
by Phaedrus
Mandy wrote: mjb0123 asked a question and we were discussing it. If this thread isn't super serious enough for you, you are free to go to a different thread, no? Should we find out what else you "don't mind" before discussing it?
Oh, lawd.
In modern usage a tyrant is a single ruler holding vast, if not absolute power through a state or in an organization. The term carries modern connotations of a harsh and cruel ruler who places his or her own interests or the interests of a small oligarchy over the best interests of the general population which the tyrant governs or controls.
That was the definition you posted. The bolded section describes Leto pretty accurately, and that's the meat of the definition. There's a small aside about
connotations of the word. In other words, things that aren't unique to a tyrant, but they come to mind when people think of tyrants. You're saying he's not a tyrant because he fails to meet that tiny little irrelevant criteria. I gave my reasons for why he is a tyrant. The question was answered, either way, and any further discussion is frankly getting more and more off-topic.
I just think it's ridiculous to argue semantics, and since I'm the only person on one side of the argument, I was withdrawing in my own way. If you want to hear the sound of echoes, post away on the semantics of what it means to be a tyrant.
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 17:08
by Mandy
He is a tyrant, just not for the reasons the people think he is. If you weren't so busy being a dick, maybe we'd have come to that understanding. You do get that this is a forum for discussion, right?
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 18:20
by Phaedrus
I think I already understood that. But wait for it:
Mandy wrote:He appeared to be a tyrant to the general population, how could they understand his GP? He wasn't really a tyrant since he had the best interests of the people at heart.
I assumed you were arguing that he
wasn't a tyrant.
I didn't disagree that people didn't understand his reasons.
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 19:55
by Mandy
Yes, I did say that, fuckly. This isn't 4chan, so the idea of a conversation flowing and people rephrasing or clarifying their ideas is probably a new one for you.
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 21:23
by Phaedrus
Mandy wrote:Yes, I did say that, fuckly. This isn't 4chan, so the idea of a conversation flowing and people rephrasing or clarifying their ideas is probably a new one for you.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon/rolleyes.gif)
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 22:17
by HoosierDaddy
Mandy wrote:Yes, I did say that, fuckly. This isn't 4chan, so the idea of a conversation flowing and people rephrasing or clarifying their ideas is probably a new one for you.
(Yes, I had to google it)
Posted: 29 Jun 2008 22:33
by SandChigger
(So maybe you can explain it to me?
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon/confused.gif)
)
Posted: 30 Jun 2008 01:42
by Phaedrus
Apparently, Fuckly is a rapper of some sort.
http://www.afromix.org/html/musique/art ... ex.en.html
I don't get it, myself.
Posted: 30 Jun 2008 02:22
by SandChigger
I kinda gathered that from the image and WHERE HE'S BANDWIDTH-STEALING it from!!!
(I am kidding...seeing how I do it, too!)
Posted: 30 Jun 2008 04:33
by orald
Wait, Mandy, you're in on the powindah conspiracy to denounce God Leto as a tyrant too?!
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon/eek.gif)
Traitor!
God Leto is innocent!!!
Y'all know I can't admit it. Siaynoq!
Posted: 30 Jun 2008 06:44
by inhuien
What's 4chan please:?
Posted: 30 Jun 2008 07:59
by Phaedrus
inhuien wrote:What's 4chan please:?
Something about bitches being nothing but hos and tricks, but god. I don't even know anymore.
Posted: 30 Jun 2008 08:13
by Serkanner
I thought fuckly was a combination of fucking ugly.
Posted: 30 Jun 2008 08:16
by Freakzilla
Serkanner wrote:I thought fuckly was a combination of fucking ugly.
You're thinking of "fugly".
Posted: 30 Jun 2008 13:19
by Mandy