Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

I always thought that of all the things that were screwed up in the movie, they pretty close to nailed the worms. That said, how the worms looked was what I hated most about the mini-series.
I know FH definitly endorsed the three jawed version, and this goes right back to the original artwork done by John Schoenherr, who in Franks own words was the only person he beleived to have truely visisted Arrakis.
If the new movie goes ahead, this is a big deal-breaker for me (amonst many other thing of course). I also really got ticked off when in the mini-series they kept calling worms a Shai-Hulud. Or the Shai-hulud. Completely ruins the meaning of the word. Shai-Hulud is an abstraction, a word for the spirit of all worms whom are just manifestations of god. Not some cool word that translates to worm. Pissed me right off.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I always thought that of all the things that were screwed up in the movie, they pretty close to nailed the worms. That said, how the worms looked was what I hated most about the mini-series.
I know FH definitly endorsed the three jawed version, and this goes right back to the original artwork done by John Schoenherr, who in Franks own words was the only person he beleived to have truely visisted Arrakis.
If the new movie goes ahead, this is a big deal-breaker for me (amonst many other thing of course). I also really got ticked off when in the mini-series they kept calling worms a Shai-Hulud. Or the Shai-hulud. Completely ruins the meaning of the word. Shai-Hulud is an abstraction, a word for the spirit of all worms whom are just manifestations of god. Not some cool word that translates to worm. Pissed me right off.

first off..i couldnt disagree more...i prefer the 2 sided mouth to the 3..ive always thought the 3 looked bad...this is actually one of the things i like about the mini series alot ... i would be just as disappointed if its 3 instead of 2 ..as you would if its 2 instead of 3

now second of all.....shai-hulud translates to both "imo" (which means dick) .... it is as you say " a word for the spirit of all worms whom are just manifestations of god" ... but i also think its a cool word for worm

now puff puff pass... stop bogarting the joint

Umm, I do agree with AToE(jeez, can't you guys all get short, easy to spell or abbriviate names?) about the shai-hulud bit, but I don't really recall there being 2 or 3 mouth sides per-se as more of a rounded, symetrical mouth in the mini-series, which is much better IMO.

It's a worm after all, it's supposed to be rounded and symetrical, and I don't remember any mention of big mouth-piece projections(could be wrong though, as I'm sure Freak would point out in that case).

They are never described in the books as having lips like in the movie, their mouths were just open. I assumed round too.

There's a fan made picture of a sandworm somewhere, maybe a rough sketch type, that shows it with a round mouth...Maybe LSF made it?
I think it's part of the series of Leto-to-worm sketches.

FH in Dune: Terminology of the Imperium wrote:SHAI-HULUD: Sandworm of Arrakis, the "Old Man of the Desert," "Old Father Eternity," and "Grandfather of the Desert." Significantly, this name, when referred to in a certain tone or written with capital letters, designates the earth deity of Fremen hearth superstitions. Sandworms grow to enormous size (specimens longer than 400 meters have been seen in the deep desert) and live to great age unless slain by one of their fellows or drowned in water, which is poisonous to them. Most of the sand on Arrakis is credited to sandworm action. (See Little Maker.)

So Shai-Hulud is the worm as deity and grammatically is a proper noun or name; as such, it takes no articles in English.

But shai-hulud is a common noun, and while a foreign loan in English, as a common count noun takes articles. Even FH used it that way on occasion:

FH in Dune wrote:There would be a small shai-hulud in this place, a creature no more than nine meters long, kept stunted and trapped by surrounding water ditches.

A question for B, perhaps: Can worms with round mouths close them?

(Huh...quote malfunction. )

The illustration in the DE has a round mouth.

Umm, don't terran worms have round mouths?

Common earthworm anatomy(I know this isn't that close, and the mouth is quite tiny):


Now if you really want to see the mouth of a sandworm, here it is:

The earthworm is a great analog, because it burrows. But a lamprey is a whole different fish...it's a(n aquatic) worm that as a matter of fact latches onto fish and sucks their blood...a parasite in other words, like Kevin. I don't know if it can close that mouth or not.

But it's a great visual model for a worm mouth, all full of teeth, no?

Maybe the mouth could close with the circle becoming smaller all along its circumference...the whole contracting inward...maybe with a big of swivel in the teeth area.

Kinda hard to describe...do you get what I mean?

(Of course, mouth closed might make it look too phallic for middle America? )

SandChigger wrote:But it's a great visual model for a worm mouth, all full of teeth, no?

That was my intent in producing that picture(could be that was what inspired FH in the first place?).

Maybe the mouth could close with the circle becoming smaller all along its circumference...the whole contracting inward...maybe with a big of swivel in the teeth area.

Kinda hard to describe...do you get what I mean?

(Of course, mouth closed might make it look too phallic for middle America? )

Yea, I get the meaning, that's what I think too.
And when it borrows the mouth is closed anyway, no? It can't swallow all that sand all the time or it won't move fast enough(look at sea-cucumbers, I think that's the name, they digest, or rather sift for nutrients, all the sand they swallow so they have to move slowly).

Basically it works like a huge anus. Yep. That's the best analogy.

orald wrote:Basically it works like a huge anus. Yep. That's the best analogy.

Here we go again...someone will ask if the anus should be shaved to burrow better in the ground...

That wouldn't be an issue unless the worm were burrowing ass-backwards, no?

I think the best, widely understandable answers would be human body parts- in this case, the anus.
It's round and is the end of a round tube, it's muscular and it contracts to close in a circular fashion.
Just add teeth to it and you've got a sandworm.

I could probably search for other organisms apart from earthworms, but everyone already knows how their body looks, so why bother(OK, I won't search cuz I'm lazy and I suck at searches)?

Tyrant wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I always thought that of all the things that were screwed up in the movie, they pretty close to nailed the worms. That said, how the worms looked was what I hated most about the mini-series.
I know FH definitly endorsed the three jawed version, and this goes right back to the original artwork done by John Schoenherr, who in Franks own words was the only person he beleived to have truely visisted Arrakis.
If the new movie goes ahead, this is a big deal-breaker for me (amonst many other thing of course). I also really got ticked off when in the mini-series they kept calling worms a Shai-Hulud. Or the Shai-hulud. Completely ruins the meaning of the word. Shai-Hulud is an abstraction, a word for the spirit of all worms whom are just manifestations of god. Not some cool word that translates to worm. Pissed me right off.

first off..i couldnt disagree more...i prefer the 2 sided mouth to the 3..ive always thought the 3 looked bad...this is actually one of the things i like about the mini series alot ... i would be just as disappointed if its 3 instead of 2 ..as you would if its 2 instead of 3

now second of all.....shai-hulud translates to both "imo" (which means dick) .... it is as you say " a word for the spirit of all worms whom are just manifestations of god" ... but i also think its a cool word for worm

now puff puff pass... stop bogarting the joint

Actually Shai-Hulud is Arabic, and translates to "a Thing of Eternity"
Also, I agree with everyone else, round mouthed would make the most sense, and is closest to what is described in the books. However, somethings just don't look that good on film, and I think this is one. Either way, I prefer the original artwork (tri-jawed) as it just looks more majestic, and that's how I feel the worms should look.

Well, if a gigantic, 3-sided mutated penis is what you consider majestic...
Personally I think a giant anus is way more majestic.

orald wrote:Personally I think a giant anus is way more majestic.

which is exactly why we like you so much orald

The nematode worm have three lips.

http://www.stanford.edu/class/humbio103 ... age034.gif

That looks very menacing.

Can anyone find out where Lynch and the mini-series people took their design ideas from? Did they talk about the process of desiging their respective worms?

But nevertheless, a round mouthed worm seems most canonical if there's no mention of anything like those big shell projections, 2/3 in number, in the canon, and I don't recall there ever being one.

Speaking of worm design on film, what did you guys do for worms, Med?
I haven't seen your trailer, so I'm not sure you even made worms or something. I half supposed you made it all more theatrical(i.e mostly indoor sets etc like you show in theater) for lack of budget.

SandChigger wrote:That wouldn't be an issue unless the worm were burrowing ass-backwards, no?

I just had a thought about a 200 meters wide giant ass burrowing in the ground to hide...

Oh wait...It's KJA...

orald wrote:Can anyone find out where Lynch and the mini-series people took their design ideas from? Did they talk about the process of desiging their respective worms?

They got the idea from John Schoenherr's artwork, he is the original Dune artist, having done the art for both of the Analog issue's Dune was first published in, the first edition cover, all the art for the Illustrated Dune, as well as the 1978 Dune calendar. Only the first two of the following links show worms.
http://www.arrakis.co.uk/illustrated.html
http://www.geocities.com/fantasticrevie ... 1965_3.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/fantasticrevie ... 63_dec.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/fantasticrevie ... dcover.jpg

Rakis wrote:

SandChigger wrote:That wouldn't be an issue unless the worm were burrowing ass-backwards, no?

I just had a thought about a 200 meters wide giant ass burrowing in the ground to hide...

Oh wait...It's KJA...

My eyes... how they burn!

(Rakis, I missed this one somehow. LOVE it!)

I put this up in the art section, but for those who like obscene flower type mouth this might be a bit more along those lines.
http://teyekanik.deviantart.com/art/But ... d-52492022

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I put this up in the art section, but for those who like obscene flower type mouth this might be a bit more along those lines.
http://teyekanik.deviantart.com/art/But ... d-52492022

Kind of old for Paul, huh?