Hehe, I guess it doesn't bother me too much, since they stole it from the master anyway. I sort of like the visual of a ghola being sort of poured out from tank to outside world.
(Now making "synthetic" spice in a tank, that is just fucking stupid.... )
orald wrote:Also, Paul was a sacred figure for the BT, at least AFTER he was gone from the political scene and they stopped trying to sabutage him...like with God Leto. Someone who was just in the room with him would've been fawned upon.
I don't think Bijaz's dwarfism had anything to do with Masters either.
For one thing, as TMB points out, they're normally proportioned though small. Also, they're what, 150 cm in HoD? That's not a dwarf, that's just short, and no way near dwarfed. That's like half a head shorter than me, and I've seen plenty of women that short, some even shorter*.
IIRC, his dwarfism was part of the plan to draw attention to this physical feature. Wasn't he supposed to be a "freak" kind of gift, like a curiosity item on the surface?
*On my job course in the army there was this one CUTE doll instructor about 140-145 cm high. Damn she was cute!
In Children of Dune there's a refernce to the Tleilaxu and it mentions Face Dancers and small people, so it looks like the Masters were midgets from the beginning, before FH fully developed the Tleilaxu in the later books.
Tleilax Master B wrote:He had probably been used for numerous other tasks before the Hayt project.
But, doesn't Hayt/Duncan remember, right around the time he's getting his memories back, seeing Bijaz in the tanks along with himself? I always thought they were grown together.
"You are not Hayt," the dwarf said. "You are Duncan Idaho. I was there when they put your dead flesh into the tank and I was there when they removed it, alive and ready for training."
Bijaz had long since been removed from the tanks when Hayt was decanted. He was there when the corpse was put in and there when it was removed. To shield Hayt from Paul's prescience, IMHO.
There's another quote, from the same conversation, where Bijaz tells Hayt they were both grown in the same tank, "First me, then you," I believe it goes.
I'm also uncertain about Bijaz actually being prescient. Paul puts forth the idea, but just because Paul doesn't see him doesn't make him prescient. The Guild was involved with the Hayt project and the conspiracy from the beginning. There's no reason that Edric couldn't be shielding Bijaz, and the comments Bijaz make to Paul aren't exactly great evidence.
But I do agree in general that it's entirely possible for masters of genetics to change a Face Dancer into a Master. Wasn't it suggested at one point that the Tleilaxu might have made a Face Dancer Duncan Idaho? If they can turn a human into a Face Dancer, they can surely do the reverse.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Tleilax Master B wrote:He had probably been used for numerous other tasks before the Hayt project.
But, doesn't Hayt/Duncan remember, right around the time he's getting his memories back, seeing Bijaz in the tanks along with himself? I always thought they were grown together.
"You are not Hayt," the dwarf said. "You are Duncan Idaho. I was there when they put your dead flesh into the tank and I was there when they removed it, alive and ready for training."
Bijaz had long since been removed from the tanks when Hayt was decanted. He was there when the corpse was put in and there when it was removed. To shield Hayt from Paul's prescience, IMHO.
There's another quote, from the same conversation, where Bijaz tells Hayt they were both grown in the same tank, "First me, then you," I believe it goes.
I'm also uncertain about Bijaz actually being prescient. Paul puts forth the idea, but just because Paul doesn't see him doesn't make him prescient. The Guild was involved with the Hayt project and the conspiracy from the beginning. There's no reason that Edric couldn't be shielding Bijaz, and the comments Bijaz make to Paul aren't exactly great evidence.
But I do agree in general that it's entirely possible for masters of genetics to change a Face Dancer into a Master. Wasn't it suggested at one point that the Tleilaxu might have made a Face Dancer Duncan Idaho? If they can turn a human into a Face Dancer, they can surely do the reverse.
I certainly agree with the latter. I personally am fairly convinced that Bijaz had some level of prescience, and Paul seemed fairly convinced also. But we know they are at least capable of producing such a thing, as we know that the BT made their own KH, which would presumably be prescient.
I believe these questions will be answered in the upcoming Tleilaxu of Dune trilogy: Scytale of Dune, Waff of Dune, and [whatever the name of that castrated midget from Hunters is] of Dune.
Note: I would've looked up the name, but I'm happy to be losing my memory of those books.
So my post isn't wholly off-topic, I will say I agree with TMB, mostly because he seems to know everything on this subject.
To address the point about ebooks, I have some .lit versions if anyone would rather have those instead of .pdf. I'm not sure they're any different though. I also have a majority of Frank's other works in varied formats, if you're looking for a specific non-Dune book.
“But what is the good of friendship if one cannot say exactly what one means? Anybody can say charming things and try to please and to flatter, but a true friend always says unpleasant things, and does not mind giving pain. Indeed, if he is a really true friend he prefers it, for he knows that then he is doing good.” -Oscar Wilde
Illogical Banana wrote:I believe these questions will be answered in the upcoming Tleilaxu of Dune trilogy: Scytale of Dune, Waff of Dune, and [whatever the name of that castrated midget from Hunters is] of Dune.
Note: I would've looked up the name, but I'm happy to be losing my memory of those books.
Let's just hope Kevin doesn't see those and think they're a good idea!
(Remember the last little guy as Fuxtal, like I do. )
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
Nah, I figure the next four or five book trilogy will probably be a last minute decision to expand Leto of Dune. It'll detail Leto's suffering in not being able to bone chicks, and have lots of explosions. This is really the time period that they can have the most special effects fun in. But we'll find out that he had a secret cave filled with worms, and his death actually triggered a device to release those worms - it really wasn't the sandtrout that start the cycle all along! The series will be titled Retcons of Dune.
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Nah, I figure the next four or five book trilogy will probably be a last minute decision to expand Leto of Dune. It'll detail Leto's suffering in not being able to bone chicks, ...
That may be a pretty good series. I would guess that both of the author's have first hand experience of such suffering.
Although I doubt that experience would overcome their writing ability.
“But what is the good of friendship if one cannot say exactly what one means? Anybody can say charming things and try to please and to flatter, but a true friend always says unpleasant things, and does not mind giving pain. Indeed, if he is a really true friend he prefers it, for he knows that then he is doing good.” -Oscar Wilde
Yeah, LOADS of suffering there...the inability to express one's natural desires, forever unrequited love, the pain of being only a mediocrity shot from the loins of genius....
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
SandChigger wrote:Yeah, LOADS of suffering there...the inability to express one's natural desires, forever unrequited love, the pain of being only a mediocrity shot from the loins of genius....
I wonder what the authors will use to inform that?
On the bright side, at least we know(or at least hope) that they can't finish ALL these series, if they plan on doing Hellhole, and if they both keep writing their own books.
How old was Brian again? How old will he be when they finish Leto of Dune, on the current schedule?
I imagine the graph is pretty easy, just a diminishing line of time against potential for ruined Dune books...that's nice to think about, actually.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
And Kim having no literary aspirations that we've heard of to date, the HLP will next turn to Byron to take his place on the low stool, grab them udders with both hands and start pullin'.
Or maybe Kevin will be allowed to continue to hike "Dune" until he dies or runs out of ideas under the conditions of that mysterious MYOB agreement he has with the Dairies?
Brian is 61, Kevin just turned 46. If Timeweb is any indication, Brian's close to drooling already but Kevin could have another twenty or thirty years of books in him to crap out, if God doesn't hurry up with that boulder or meteorite.
2008 Pail of Dung (61, 46)
2009 Smellhole (62, 47)
2010 Jess Icky Dung (63, 48 )
2011 Smellhole Inferno (64, 49)
2012 I rollin' in Dung (65, 50)
2013 Smellhole Impact (66, 51)
2014 Letotard of Dung (67, 52)
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
SandChigger wrote:And Kim having no literary aspirations that we've heard of to date, the HLP will next turn to Byron to take his place on the low stool, grab them udders with both hands and start pullin'.
Or maybe Kevin will be allowed to continue to hike "Dune" until he dies or runs out of ideas under the conditions of that mysterious MYOB agreement he has with the Dairies?
Brian is 61, Kevin just turned 46. If Timeweb is any indication, Brian's close to drooling already but Kevin could have another twenty or thirty years of books in him to crap out, if God doesn't hurry up with that boulder or meteorite.
2008 Pail of Dung (61, 46)
2009 Smellhole (62, 47)
2010 Jess Icky Dung (63, 48 )
2011 Smellhole Inferno (64, 49)
2012 I rollin' in Dung (65, 50)
2013 Smellhole Impact (66, 51)
2014 Letotard of Dung (67, 52)
If they finish this series, I'll take it as proof that there is no God.
Frank Herbert only lived to 65.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.