Experts on Biblical Satire?


Moderators: Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Omphalos

Post Reply
User avatar
Jodorowsky's Acolyte
Posts: 370
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 10:55

Experts on Biblical Satire?

Post by Jodorowsky's Acolyte »

This is a bit random for me (though I am admittedly a very random person). I'm now doing a scholarly paper on John Dryden's "Absalom and Achitophel," a satirical mock-epic poem which allegorizes the Popish Plot and the Monmouth Rebellion during Charles II's and James II's time with Absalom's rebellion and the betrayal of Ahitophel (spelled differently in The Bible). I've been looking at sources from Winston Churchill's biography of the Duke of Marlborough to The Jerusalem Bible, as well as two scholarly books of satire in The Bible. Recently, when I was watching Life of Brian and the making of documentary, it got me wondering about Biblical satire as a whole. I know that Geoffrey Chaucer was known for his satires of Churchmen in The Canterbury Tales, and Mark Twain wrote some pretty far out sci-fi satires about Christianity in Captain Stomfield's Visit to Heaven and The Mysterious Stranger. I'm just wondering how many authors out there have tried to fuse Biblical material with comedy or satire. Dryden used The Bible to make witty arguments, like noting that Charles II and King David are both very libidinous with the womenfolk. Dune has elements of dry satire, in how in critiques how religious leaders and followers can get a little too carried away with religious and political causes.

I'm sure some of you have ventured into some study of religion from reading Dune, so I was wondering if any of you were knowledgeable of any other Biblical satires I haven't heard about, or know of any clever satires of religion anywhere else I haven't looked.
'...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
User avatar
Apjak
Posts: 519
Joined: 30 Jun 2008 12:06
Location: Kansas City

Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

Post by Apjak »

The important thing to understand about the bible is that it is not one book. It is a collection of the literature of the Ancient Hebrews: the Old Testament and then you have the literature of the early Christians: the New Testament. It spans hundreds of years of history and culture, and is written in a few different languages. It's a compilation of ancient texts held sacred, which includes Myths, Laws, Histories, Journalism, Personal Letters, a Songbook, and a Book of Erotic Poetry.

So if you're looking for religious satire, you don't even have to leave the bible to find it. The Book of Job is a morality tale where the hero's whole life falls apart due to a wager between God and the Devil, but the bulk f the work is mostly his pious friends blaming Job's problems for being sinful. Job tells them off pretty spectacularly, all in Ancient Hebrew poetry.

Jesus' main enemies are the religious establishment. He says all their good works are equal to "menstrual rags" in the sight of God. &c. &c.
I don't think the author should make the reader do that much work - Kevin J. Anderson
We think we've updated 'Dune' for a modern readership without dumbing it down.- Brian Herbert
There’s an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money(energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. - Frank Herbert
User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

Post by SandRider »

Christians for Michele Bachmann on Facebook.
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
User avatar
Jodorowsky's Acolyte
Posts: 370
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 10:55

Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

Post by Jodorowsky's Acolyte »

Apjak wrote:The important thing to understand about the bible is that it is not one book. It is a collection of the literature of the Ancient Hebrews: the Old Testament and then you have the literature of the early Christians: the New Testament. It spans hundreds of years of history and culture, and is written in a few different languages. It's a compilation of ancient texts held sacred, which includes Myths, Laws, Histories, Journalism, Personal Letters, a Songbook, and a Book of Erotic Poetry.

So if you're looking for religious satire, you don't even have to leave the bible to find it. The Book of Job is a morality tale where the hero's whole life falls apart due to a wager between God and the Devil, but the bulk f the work is mostly his pious friends blaming Job's problems for being sinful. Job tells them off pretty spectacularly, all in Ancient Hebrew poetry.

Jesus' main enemies are the religious establishment. He says all their good works are equal to "menstrual rags" in the sight of God. &c. &c.
Apjak, I could hug you. I definitely want to use The Book of Job as an example of satire in The Bible. A book I got, called A Serrated Edge, talks about how Jesus satirizes the establishment, and the author uses it to satirize the present day Fundamentalists.
SandRider wrote:Christians for Michele Bachmann on Facebook.
Also perfect. Like many an overzealous follower, they have a tendency to kvetch, and illogically so. Many of the things in the Dryden poem I'm writing about resonate very eerily with many of things going on today in U.S. politics. And Dryden was merely mirroring the politics of his time period during the reign of Charles II.
'...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

Post by Freakzilla »

One of my favorite Christian satire sites is bettybowers.com "America's Best Christian".

Also try landoverbaptist.org "Where the worthwhile worship. Unsaved unwelcome!"
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
D Pope
Posts: 1504
Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
Location: Grubville

Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

Post by D Pope »

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28881.Lamb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos
distrans
Posts: 483
Joined: 04 Jan 2013 01:06

Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

Post by distrans »

Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote: Many of the things in the Dryden poem I'm writing about resonate very eerily with many of things going on today in U.S. politics. And Dryden was merely mirroring the politics of his time period during the reign of Charles II.
no suprise,
given their the evils fucks in room
some 16 hundred and 90 years running at this point

is anyone going to mention archie bunker?

'all in the family' roasted what passed for christian for years
User avatar
Jodorowsky's Acolyte
Posts: 370
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 10:55

Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

Post by Jodorowsky's Acolyte »

Freakzilla wrote:One of my favorite Christian satire sites is bettybowers.com "America's Best Christian".

Also try landoverbaptist.org "Where the worthwhile worship. Unsaved unwelcome!"
My lord Freakzilla, you are awesome! I did check both sites earlier, and I think landoverbaptist is just perfect for looking for satire in The Bible. Just wanted to thank you. :D
Thank you, too, D Pope. I've been curious of about Christopher Moore's books, and this indeed catch my eye one time. If you like reading atypical novels about Jesus, try checking out Robert Graves' King Jesus. Graves, who wrote I, Claudius, makes Jesus' origins very interesting.
distrans wrote:
Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote: Many of the things in the Dryden poem I'm writing about resonate very eerily with many of things going on today in U.S. politics. And Dryden was merely mirroring the politics of his time period during the reign of Charles II.
no suprise,
given their the evils fucks in room
some 16 hundred and 90 years running at this point

is anyone going to mention archie bunker?

'all in the family' roasted what passed for christian for years
I actually revisited some episodes of All in the Family some months ago. Having never grown up in the 70s, I was surprised by the issues that show took on. I was more surprised just to how thin Rob Reiner was in those days, but that's besides the point. The episode where Archie accidentally joined the Ku Klux Klan was an interesting one, especially in the way Archie defied them in the end.
'...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
distrans
Posts: 483
Joined: 04 Jan 2013 01:06

Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

Post by distrans »

you will note
he managed to confront them
at a time when corperations were actually taxed
and the rich paid their full share

a time when the goons had little draw but inbred vile

when time get tough the goon collectors have nearly an unmanagable farm league


have you come across the documentary "the god who wasnt there" ?


it points out the decades between the gospels jesus time
and anyone writting down anything about it

not to give it singular authority or anything

but it might help point your present search for material
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

Post by Freakzilla »

Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:One of my favorite Christian satire sites is bettybowers.com "America's Best Christian".

Also try landoverbaptist.org "Where the worthwhile worship. Unsaved unwelcome!"
My lord Freakzilla, you are awesome! I did check both sites earlier, and I think landoverbaptist is just perfect for looking for satire in The Bible. Just wanted to thank you. :D
I exist only to serve.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
Post Reply