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Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 04 Feb 2011 14:25
by A Thing of Eternity
There's obviously more to it than "seeing the future creates the future", because prescients see multiple possible futures and they don't all happen.
Seeing it causes the prescient to DO something that causes those events to come to pass or be avoided. We had this discussion not too long ago, basically the topic was "if a prescient had no way to influence the world/universe then their visions amount to nothing".
Leto II saw lots of things that did not come to pass, I'm sure Paul did as well.
The self fulfilling prophecy effect I'm sure is what FH meant when he said seeing the future creates the future. It locks the seer into certain actions, sometimes against their will, sometimes I'm sure without their knowledge at all.
Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 04 Feb 2011 14:30
by baudib
A very limited one. The only example we get of someone actively using the Tarot is RM HGM, who gleans very little useful information from it.
Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 04 Feb 2011 15:39
by Freakzilla
baudib wrote:A very limited one. The only example we get of someone actively using the Tarot is RM HGM, who gleans very little useful information from it.
I think she was just playing with them, I don't think she took it seriously.
Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 16 Aug 2011 01:02
by A Thing of Eternity
Epic spammer gibberish, the force is strong with this one.
Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 16 Aug 2011 02:40
by Omphalos
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Epic spammer gibberish, the force is strong with this one.
Hmmm?
Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 16 Aug 2011 13:58
by A Thing of Eternity
Omphalos wrote:A Thing of Eternity wrote:Epic spammer gibberish, the force is strong with this one.
Hmmm?
Well it's gone now, but it was epic.
Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 16 Aug 2011 14:23
by Omphalos
There's a lot of these bastards popping up lately. Freak must have gotten the one you were referring to. By the time I logged on last night, there were three more, all of whom had posted.
Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 21 Jul 2012 17:12
by Kralizec
baudib wrote:Is it fair to assume all of Leto's inner dialogue presented in GEoD is also recorded by the Ixian dictatel, thus available in his journals at Dar-es Balat?
Apart from every other consideration, it's difficult to imagine that Leto II, the controller
par excellence, would have allowed every stray thought to go into the journals, unedited. I don't think even writers who present themselves as writing a stream of consciousness actually do so; it's just a twentieth-century vanity, a pretense of total honesty that is really not honest at all. However, as for indications in the texts themselves, the Journals are never represented as having been written as a stream-of-consciousness, except in the final moments of bedlam, as Leto II is dying. Moreover, I think Siona would never have wasted her time on such reading; nor would Leto Ii have expected anyone to do so.
Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 22 Jul 2012 10:13
by Freakzilla
He had to think in a particular mode for the dictatel to record.
But I have a certain sympathy for the Ixians. They believe so strongly in their
technology, their science, their machines. Because we believe (no matter the
content) we understand each other, the Ixians and I. They make many devices for
me and think they earn my gratitude thus. These very words you are reading were
printed by an Ixian device, a dictatel it is called. If I cast my thoughts in a
particular mode, the dictatel is activated. I merely think in this mode and the
words are printed for me on ridulian crystal sheets only one molecule thick.
Sometimes I order copies printed on material of lesser permanence. It was two of
these latter types that were stolen from me by Siona.
Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 21 Aug 2017 19:46
by pcqypcqy
When was Dar es balat found, and the presentation at the start of GEOD held?
Events at the end of Heretics suggest it must have happened in between those two books, but reading GEOD currently suggests that the discover is more than 1500 years away.
Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 22 Aug 2017 06:16
by Freakzilla
pcqypcqy wrote:When was Dar es balat found, and the presentation at the start of GEOD held?
Events at the end of Heretics suggest it must have happened in between those tworking books, but reading GEOD currently suggests that the discover is more than 1500 years away.
I believe the discovery was relatively close to the events in HoD. I'd have to do some research to find an exact quote.
Re: Leto's Journals
Posted: 22 Aug 2017 06:21
by pcqypcqy
There's this on page 29 of my GEoD pdf, at the start of the chapter where we first meet the new Duncan:
You, the first person to encounter my chronicles for at least four thousand years, beware. Do not feel honored by your primacy in reading the revelations of my Ixian storehouse. You will find much pain in it. Other than the few glimpses required to assure me that the Golden Path continued. I never wanted to peer beyond those four millennia. Therefore, I am not sure what the events in my journals may signify to your times. I only know that my journals have suffered oblivion and that the events which I recount have undoubtedly been submitted to historical distortion for eons. I assure you that the ability to view our futures can become a bore. Even to be thought of as a god, as I certainly was, can become ultimately boring. It has occurred to me more than once that holy boredom is good and sufficient reason for the invention of free will.
-Inscription on the storehouse at bar-es-Balat
For this to be true, it had to have been written about 1000 years into Leto II's reign.
Which is fine, but throws into question the timeline of no-room development. I always understood that to have only been perfected just before the time setting of GEoD, and indeed was one of Leto's goals.
I've always wondered as well about the timeline of the Harkonnen's no globe, and when it was built. I'm surprised that they hadn't been wiped out during Paul's Jihad, there would have been plenty of willing Fremen.