Dune Movies, opinions wanted


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twistedmentat
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Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by twistedmentat »

Fellow fanatics i'm curious on you opinions of the various Dune Movies (theatrical release/miniseries)? Likes/Dislikes? While the miniseries is closer to the book (they ommitted Usul which i don't understand), which one do you think is better in terms of costume and set design? Which one more closely resembles the Landsraad as you pictured it in your mind? Is their a particulair actor you think looked and portrayed their respective character spot on (subquestion A : which Chani is hotter?)? If you think they are all trash please provide an explanation. I've combed this particulair board and seen some of your opinions but i'd like to refresh the topic if i may (hoping not to overstep my boundaries as the new guy). Also do you think a Dune reboot would do well present day? I know their is a supposed one in the works, but how would it fare amongst audiences today that prefer style over substance. While Dune(lit) does have action its strength to me was always plot,dialogue,character development,etc. Traits which are less and less common amongst todays sci-fi movies. Is Dune too complex for today's audiences? I think we've all had that friend that we handed our well worn copy of Dune over too, just to have it returned days later with the following review,"man this was way too hard to read". That dissapointment you felt as you watched your friend/loved one's cool points plummet. My fear is the present day film machine will butcher Dune, like they did with I Robot and I am Legend ("come out Neville!!"). Picture Will Smith as Paul (shhhhuudderrr). Anyways i'd like to hear your input.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Aquila ka-Hecate »

Well, I've seen the 1984 Lynch movie and the miniseries of Dune; I've only seen YouTube clips of the Children of Dune Miniseries.

This is from someone who eschews movies on the whole and doesn't watch telly for weeks on end. But I can say that, for me, a lot of the atmospherics of the Lynch movie were alright -better than the miniseries, although the casting was horrible.

The miniseries, while obviously a low budget studio thing, got the Guild Navigator a lot closer to right than the Lynch monstrosity. Alec Newman was no better than whatshisface as Paul, although he did make a very good Preacher.Neither Jessica was anywhere near good enough. Sean Young made a slightly better Chani than the Eastern European actress, and William Hurt was a tad better as the Duke.

I have serious problems with the screwing around both films did with the script, but nothing -nothing - took the biscuit the way those uproariously incongruous hats did in the miniseries.Except maybe the Transylvanian accents.

The Lynch Bene Gesserit were also quite a bit better than the telly series ones.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Freakzilla »

Dune (1984)
Good.
Sets
Score
The hats the costume design crew spent six months designing for the Fremen didn't make it into the film.

Bad
Heart plugs
Cat milking
Bug Juice Boxes
Cow tongue
Weirding Modules
Thopters
Rain
Bald BG
Giant tadpoles vomiting planets
Kyle McLaughlin's hair
Diseased Baron
Sardaukar garbage bag and chemlight costumes
David Lynch not sharing that really, really good acid

Minis

Good
Accuracy
Navigator

Bad
Hats
Costumes
Sets
Image
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Omphalos »

CoD Mini:

Good: Daniella Amivala

Bad: Leto roaring like a pertrubed kitty-cat at the end.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by DuneFishUK »

Aquila ka-Hecate wrote:William Hurt was a tad better as the Duke.
Disagree. Hurt was comatose.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Tleszer »

Yeah, Hurt was definitely one of the worse things about the mini. Although Alec Newman's "Paul" was terrible, I enjoyed his Muad'Dib and Preacher.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Aquila ka-Hecate »

I've also not seen a convincing Stilgar to date.
Lynch's Stil was pretty much sidelined, or perhaps didn't make it out of the cuts, but the miniseries one just looked like a small thug.
Yes, I know - I'm too visual.

I think I remember someone mentioning a better Stilgar - was it in the CoD miniseries?
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Omphalos »

Lynch's Stilgar was a nighttime DJ.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Kojiro »

While I do like both versions, I was less pleased with the Lynch film than the miniseries. For example, there's that spot in the Lynch film that summarizes about a couple hundred pages of the book in just a couple minutes. It was like Lynch went "Oh crap! We're running out of film, we'd better fast forward through all the other stuff." The miniseries was more accurate, although those costumes they had were ridiculous.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Serkanner »

Never compare a book with a movie or TV series. Period.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Freakzilla »

Kojiro wrote: The miniseries was more accurate, although those costumes they had were ridiculous.
I liked the stilsuits in the minis better.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Serkanner »

Freakzilla wrote:
Kojiro wrote: The miniseries was more accurate, although those costumes they had were ridiculous.
I liked the stilsuits in the minis better.
They at least had face masks.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

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Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by DuneFishUK »

Serkanner wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Kojiro wrote: The miniseries was more accurate, although those costumes they had were ridiculous.
I liked the stilsuits in the minis better.
They at least had face masks.
I didn't think the design held water.


As in I couldn't imagine them containing water - they were too baggy. The lynch suits, even without facemasks and over-cloaks, looked like they could actually hold and filter water.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Freakzilla »

DuneFishUK wrote:
Serkanner wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Kojiro wrote: The miniseries was more accurate, although those costumes they had were ridiculous.
I liked the stilsuits in the minis better.
They at least had face masks.
I didn't think the design held water.


As in I couldn't imagine them containing water - they were too baggy. The lynch suits, even without facemasks and over-cloaks, looked like they could actually hold and filter water.

Maybe so,but they looked more as described in the book.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Jodorowsky's Acolyte »

Admittedly, I didn't read DUNE before watching the David Lynch film. Actually, I watched a recording my family did of the "Alan Smithee" DUNE miniseries long before I could watch the original theatrical cut and read the book. The book my father had, coincidentally, featured cover art which resembled Jodorowsky's film poster exactly, with color, of course (others may know what I'm talking about). Due to the circumstances on how I was exposed to DUNE, I may not be eligible to judge which would be a better adaptation. Nonetheless, I'm familiar with the original novel enough to have my likes and dislikes with either adaptation.

I liked Lynch's version for it's artistic style, it's film style, effects, and it's use of tense inner-thought dialogue. The sonic weapon concept now looks stupid, but I still find it cool in the way the Fremen used them while on Worm-back. My main quibble with the movie is that it needed to be longer, longer than even the extended cut version (and without reusing old footage inappropriately!!!). I wanted to get to know David Lynch's interpretation of the characters more. I wanted to fully explore the dystopian city life of Giedi Prime, the shores of Caladan, and the deep caverns of the Fremen.

I also wanted to learn more about Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam's psychology, feelings, and motivations behind the betrayal of Duke Leto along with Jessica and Paul. Since Mohiam in the film already knew that the Atreides would be destroyed and Paul and his mother would be in danger, did she allow them to be betrayed because she hoped they would survive, or because she really thought they had died?

Lynch's addition of having all the Bene Gesserit prone characters feeling each other's pain and Paul's pain after drinking the water of life indicates that Mohiam knew that Paul and Jessica were alive. In the book, Mohiam seems to already to have shifted her hopes on Feyd to produce the Kwisatz Haderach, but the film opens an whole array of new questions. If in the film she knew that Jessica and Paul were still alive, did she hope that Paul, by overthrowing the Emperor, give the Bene Gesserit what they needed to attain their long sought for ends?

Even Lynch's addition in having the Guild's Navigators personal request of the Emperor to kill Paul intrigued me, especially the part where all the Navigators and Guildsmen are almost totally omniscient and thorough in their oracular visions. I liked that even though they saw everything, and effectively knew how to put pressure upon Shaddam to accommodate their interests. The bald Guildsman with the translator staff, and his use of a stillsuit tube by connecting it between his head and nose fascinated me too, because it indicated that the Guild's navigators and initiates were depleted on spice, and were struggling to recycle every last bit of spice which was left in their bodies.

One expectation I had you may find odd, but I was hoping there would be a sequence in the extended film where Paul and his men go on a brief espionage mission to Selusa Secundas.

You may find this laughable, but I wanted actual sex scenes between Paul and Chani in the movie. All we got were kisses and lying in bed sleeping.

As for John Harrison's miniseries, when I first saw the first part, I thought it was absolutely stupid. I couldn't understand why they were pronouncing the words I heard in the first film differently (i.e. Harkonnen: "Hark-KO-none" into "Har-KUH-nun). The dramatic pace I didn't like, and the lines sounded terrible or arranged badly. William Hurt was boring and his lines were softly spoken to the point where I couldn't understand a word he was saying. I disagree with John Harrison's assessment that Leto is fatalistic. His direction downplayed Hurt's acting to the point of a poor performance.

Is anybody else bothered by how during the hunter seeker sequence, Paul and the Fremen maid are MOVING! Paul is TALKING in this scene, and that doesn't constitute as MOVEMENT! The Fremen maid's face is moving, and that doesn't constitute as movement either. In the views of the filmmakers, the hunter seeker only constitutes walking as movement.

The bringing in of Yueh's wife in the coffin, accompanied with Baron making it even more obvious that he killed her, made my Dad once say "The producers must think the audience is stupid!"

The Guildsman, nicknamed the "Thumbhead" my Dad (with scheming postures akin to Mr. Burns), looked and sounded stupid the way he performed his lines as well. I found Mohiam's expression funny when the Guildsman started to hug himself in front of her.

Another stupid moment was when a Fremen shouted "Don't run, intruders! There is no escape!" when Jessica and Paul were not even trying to run! I also felt it was a poor choice for Hurt to remove the scene where Paul tells Mohiam "Silence!," because that was one of the most satisfying parts of the book and first film.

In spite of my criticisms, I do give the miniseries credit for explaining things about the book that I missed. Even a friend told me that the only reason he understood what was going on in the books was because of the miniseries. I am a big fan of this particularly voluptuous Chani in the miniseries. I still have problems with the director's writing, adaptation, direction, and interpretation, and the performances of the actors. It was also severely dumbed down at times.

What I liked most in the miniseries was the scene where the giant worm slams into the sand in front of Dr. Kynes and Paul. The other worm scenes were very disappointing, and looked more like giant asparagus than worms. I wanted the worms to be bigger, and at least play a bigger role in the final battle. What happened to the worms when the Fremen came off them to battle the Harkonnens?

The tapestries were not totally convincing, especially when the tapestries where orange when it was nighttime. Was the sun shining on that end of Arrakis, while the two moons shined on the other end?

Unlike other critics, I rather liked the fluorescent blue within blue eyes. At least they were blue within blue, rather than in Children of Dune, where the eyes were barely blue within blue. There should be no whites in the eyes of the Fremen. Did the spice in the air decline after the planet was irrigated?

If the Dune miniseries had better direction, better writing, and acting, it would have been much better. I toyed with the idea of adapting the appearances of the actors and the art design of the miniseries, and creating a fan comic book maintaining more of the original book's complexity. Because I still admire the style of the Lynch film, I've tried to imagine Lynchian versions of how the sequels to the film would have looked like. That's something I'd want to pursue when I'll draw pseudo posters for imaginary David Lynch directed film posters of Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, and the other Dune chronicles.

To sum up, I love the first Dune film for stylistic reasons and sentimental reasons. I admire the art style and look and the miniseries and some of its approaches, but I dislike many of the approaches John Harrison made upon it.

Please excuse the length of my likes and dislikes. (Excuse the lack of paragraph separation in the earlier version of my post. I did not wish to bring such agony upon the Jacurutu sietch).
Last edited by Jodorowsky's Acolyte on 25 Jul 2010 20:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by RedHeadKevin »

One expectation I had you may find odd, but I was hoping there would be a sequence in the extended film where Paul and his men go on a brief espionage mission to Selusa Secundas.
wait, what?

I have to echo a lot of what was said about each version of the Dune movies. They each had strong points and weak points. Personally, I think if you took the visual design from Lynch's movie, (except for the stillsuits and 'thopter) and used it in the script from the miniseries, you'd have had a Dune which was much more accurate to the book, and more audience-pleasing. I always defend the wierding modules, although I hate them. They were a convenient way to show the audience that the BG had their own methods of combat, and since they used The Voice so much in the movie, it was only natural to make it based on sound. Without extreme closeups or bullet-time (which wasn't around in 1984) or the wierd blurry motion from the miniseries, or 20 minutes of expository dialogue, it would be difficult for a movie director to really show what the "Wierding Way" is. It's hard to get across that the characters rely on the minutiae of observation in a movie, without leaving the audience confused. Just look at how awkward the extreme closeups of Dean Stockwell's sweaty mustache were. Honestly, they could have replaced the weirding modules with any weapon. They just wanted to tie in the Voice as an example of the WW, show the incredible dominance of the Fremen with Paul's/Jessica's teachings, and to show that the Atreides were building an army to rival the Sardaukar.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by A Thing of Eternity »

RedHeadKevin wrote:
One expectation I had you may find odd, but I was hoping there would be a sequence in the extended film where Paul and his men go on a brief espionage mission to Selusa Secundas.
wait, what?
What indeed? Who wrote that? There are a couple posts in this thread where people didn't seperate paragraphs with either indents nor spaces so I frankly can't be bothered to wade through them.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Redstar »

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
RedHeadKevin wrote:
One expectation I had you may find odd, but I was hoping there would be a sequence in the extended film where Paul and his men go on a brief espionage mission to Selusa Secundas.
wait, what?
What indeed? Who wrote that? There are a couple posts in this thread where people didn't seperate paragraphs with either indents nor spaces so I frankly can't be bothered to wade through them.
Ctrl + F is your friend. :wink:

Found it as the first sentence of the third "paragraph" by Jodorowsky's Acolyte.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by A Thing of Eternity »

Redstar wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
RedHeadKevin wrote:
One expectation I had you may find odd, but I was hoping there would be a sequence in the extended film where Paul and his men go on a brief espionage mission to Selusa Secundas.
wait, what?
What indeed? Who wrote that? There are a couple posts in this thread where people didn't seperate paragraphs with either indents nor spaces so I frankly can't be bothered to wade through them.
Ctrl + F is your friend. :wink:

Found it as the first sentence of the third "paragraph" by Jodorowsky's Acolyte.
Hey neat, I didn't know that could be done.

Anyways, why (and just as importantly how?) would Paul go SS?
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Robspierre »

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Redstar wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
RedHeadKevin wrote:
One expectation I had you may find odd, but I was hoping there would be a sequence in the extended film where Paul and his men go on a brief espionage mission to Selusa Secundas.
wait, what?
What indeed? Who wrote that? There are a couple posts in this thread where people didn't seperate paragraphs with either indents nor spaces so I frankly can't be bothered to wade through them.
Ctrl + F is your friend. :wink:

Found it as the first sentence of the third "paragraph" by Jodorowsky's Acolyte.
Hey neat, I didn't know that could be done.

Anyways, why (and just as importantly how?) would Paul go SS?

Sounds like they are confusing the bit form Dune, the novel, where Duke Leto sent a tea that hit the Harkonnen's spice supplies.

Rob
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by TheDukester »

Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:One expectation I had you may find odd, but I was hoping there would be a sequence in the extended film where Paul and his men go on a brief espionage mission to Selusa Secundas.
I'm sorry, but that sounds a bit ... Spanky-esque.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Serkanner »

TheDukester wrote:
Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:One expectation I had you may find odd, but I was hoping there would be a sequence in the extended film where Paul and his men go on a brief espionage mission to Selusa Secundas.
I'm sorry, but that sounds a bit ... Spanky-esque.
Hmm ... I would even call this VERY spanky-esque.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by merkin muffley »

It's Spanktastic. What if Fenring fought Wolverine.
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by TheDukester »

merkin muffley wrote:What if Fenring fought Wolverine.
Kevin J. Anderson would write a book about it.

88 chapters. Outlined in a day. Dictahiked in a week. Daily emails to publisher saying "Where's my check"?
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Re: Dune Movies, opinions wanted

Post by Nekhrun »

merkin muffley wrote:It's Spanktastic. What if Fenring fought Wolverine.
You could discuss that in my Stilgar v. Iron Man thread for Paul of Dune at Amazon.
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