My skin is not my own...


Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ

User avatar
TheDukester
Posts: 3808
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 13:44
Location: Operation Enduring Bacon

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by TheDukester »

I feel your pain ... well, second-hand. My wife is ready to ship her 6th-grade class off to some remote island that does not appear on any known map.
"Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by Freakzilla »

I have a seventh grader. :cry:
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
MrFlibble
Posts: 314
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by MrFlibble »

Robspierre wrote:I asked my Grammar professor about this. Technically, because could of and should of do not exist, it is not case of mixed-up homophones. Technically, to be considered homophones, could of and should of need to exist. Also to be considered a homophone, could of and could've must have different meanings. They can be considered contrived contractions similar to I'll and eye'll (as in my eye'll be on you.) Contrived contractions come out of conversation, which brings us back to, it is a case of how people speak that finds its way into written English.

Yes, this all hinges on could of and should of not " technically existing." if they did "technically exist" it would be a case of mixed-up homophones.
Okay, my point was that 've and of are homophonic enclitics - SandChigger, any input on this? Okay, regardless of terminology, I see your point, thanks for filling me in :) (And everyone else, sorry for this distraction)
WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by SandChigger »

Well, damn, I was just going to ignore this and let it go away. :roll: :lol:

"should of" is, well ... it's just wrong. That's me with my prescriptivist hat on speaking. But even if I swap it for the descriptivist hat, it's not interesting except, minimally, as an orthographic error that indicates some of the things that go on in some people's heads when they write. It's no different than, say, something like "I new what he mint." It's just someone unthinkingly substituting a homophonous but erroneous (because meaningless) series of written words for the correct one. I can't see any evidence for supposing there's some kind of linguistic change in progress here.

Duke Leto would no doubt censure Robbo ("Damn sloppy way to [communic]ate!"), but I know we all make mistakes. ;)

Edit: Oh, right: the homophonic clitics bit. Of course 've is a clitic, but in general I wouldn't think of of as being one, although it definitely acts as one in things like adverbial kind of and sort of, as shown by their reduced forms kinda and sorta. Maybe that's where the verb usage originates, by some sort of weird analogy? ???
User avatar
Hunchback Jack
Posts: 1983
Joined: 30 May 2008 15:02
Location: California, USA

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by Hunchback Jack »

Maybe the fact that "kind of " and "sort of" exist makes "should of" sound like it might be correct, which is why some people interpret "should've" that way.

HBJ
"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
- Carl Sagan

I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
- Iain Banks
User avatar
Robspierre
Posts: 2162
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 10:49
Location: Cascadia

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by Robspierre »

MrFlibble wrote:
Robspierre wrote:I asked my Grammar professor about this. Technically, because could of and should of do not exist, it is not case of mixed-up homophones. Technically, to be considered homophones, could of and should of need to exist. Also to be considered a homophone, could of and could've must have different meanings. They can be considered contrived contractions similar to I'll and eye'll (as in my eye'll be on you.) Contrived contractions come out of conversation, which brings us back to, it is a case of how people speak that finds its way into written English.

Yes, this all hinges on could of and should of not " technically existing." if they did "technically exist" it would be a case of mixed-up homophones.
Okay, my point was that 've and of are homophonic enclitics - SandChigger, any input on this? Okay, regardless of terminology, I see your point, thanks for filling me in :) (And everyone else, sorry for this distraction)
No worries. Language and the differences between how it is spoken and written can be interesting.

I'm thinking that should of and could of MAY of come about due to people hearing could've and should've spoken and when they tried to spell them,ended up with the "of" instead of have. Which would then bring about the your point as far as writing goes and then Chigger goes all College Professor. :D

Rob
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by Freakzilla »

I think the worst brain fart I ever had... and I will always remember it for its magnitude... was when once I forgot how to spell "of". I think some strong narcotics were wearing off at the time.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
User avatar
Robspierre
Posts: 2162
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 10:49
Location: Cascadia

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by Robspierre »

Freakzilla wrote:I think the worst brain fart I ever had... and I will always remember it for its magnitude... was when once I forgot how to spell "of". I think some strong narcotics were wearing off at the time.

What's the number for 911!

Rob
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by SandChigger »

Robspierre wrote:No worries. Language and the differences between how it is spoken and written can be interesting.
Always! :D
and then Chigger goes all College Professor
:oops:
User avatar
reverendmotherQ.
Posts: 274
Joined: 05 Feb 2010 15:38
Location: Cylon Colony
Contact:

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by reverendmotherQ. »

Borrace wrote:I was thinking about something...kind of a "what if" scenario...and this thought came from reading another thread in this paticular forum about Leto's "four deaths"...

WHAT IF...

After Leto II dies and goes back into the sand...and 1000 years pass...and sandworms retake the face of arrakis...and sandtrout once again flop in the sand...

WHAT IF another Atreides (or other person) who is capable of supersaturating their body with spice put the Leto II "pearl of awareness" skin on their own body and underwent the transformation??? Would Leto II reappear?

just thoughts.
I would imagine that each pearl would be required to completely reassemble Leto's consciousness.
MrFlibble
Posts: 314
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by MrFlibble »

SandChigger wrote:Well, damn, I was just going to ignore this and let it go away. :roll: :lol:
Thank you for finding some time to comment on this :)
SandChigger wrote:I can't see any evidence for supposing there's some kind of linguistic change in progress here.
Well, the cases of could of/should of certainly stand out as strikingly unusual because the reader expects something different from a preposition between the modal verb and the main verb, so I thought I'd ask :) I wonder if such errors, given that they become regular, could actually affect grammar to any extent in the future?
SandChigger wrote:Oh, right: the homophonic clitics bit. Of course 've is a clitic, but in general I wouldn't think of of as being one, although it definitely acts as one in things like adverbial kind of and sort of, as shown by their reduced forms kinda and sorta.
Oh yes, I had kind of and sort of in mind when talking about of as an enclitic :)
SandChigger wrote:Maybe that's where the verb usage originates, by some sort of weird analogy? ???
Heh, analogy is generally a pretty weird thing :lol:

Once again, sorry for going astray of the discussion! :oops:
reverendmotherQ. wrote:I would imagine that each pearl would be required to completely reassemble Leto's consciousness.
Don't give KJA ideas! I've already imagined a new novel (series?): "Heroes of Dune on the Quest of Assembling the Pearls of Leto's Consciousness" (which are now scattered across the universe) :shock:
WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by Freakzilla »

If Duncan could get all his serial life memories back without a complete set of cell samples, I think a KH could share Leto's OM with an incomplete set of sandtrout.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by SandChigger »

The Franklin-Habanaya Mint is Proud to Present

For Discriminating Connoisseurs throughout the Universe

A Complete Partial Set of Beautifully Hand-Bound Arrakeen Sandtrout

Each Guaranteed to Contain a Limpid Pearl of Awareness

of the God Emperor Leto Atreides II


:shock:


I don't know, something about the phrase "incomplete set" set me off! :P
User avatar
SadisticCynic
Posts: 2053
Joined: 07 Apr 2009 09:28
Location: In Time or in Space?

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by SadisticCynic »

SandChigger wrote:

...A Complete Partial Set...[/i]

:think: ... :lol:
Ah English, the language where pretty much any word can have any meaning! - A Thing of Eternity
User avatar
Robspierre
Posts: 2162
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 10:49
Location: Cascadia

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by Robspierre »

MrFlibble wrote:
Once again, sorry for going astray of the discussion! :oops:

Don't apologize, nothing wrong ith thread drift, especially when it brings about new understanding or clarification. I know that there are area's concerning and grammar I want to explore more for my understanding, despite the extensive education I received, there are area's that I feel were lacking.

So, relax, pull up a chair and keep on participating.

Rob
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by SandChigger »

SadisticCynic wrote:
SandChigger wrote:
...A Complete Partial Set...
:think: ... :lol:
Liked that one, did ya? :D
D Pope
Posts: 1504
Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
Location: Grubville

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by D Pope »

Freakzilla wrote:If Duncan could get all his serial life memories back without a complete set of cell samples, I think a KH could share Leto's OM with an incomplete set of sandtrout.
According to an interview I read, it depends on what his "Star Wars rulebook" says.

http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/intkja.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos
User avatar
merkin muffley
Posts: 1584
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
Location: War Room

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by merkin muffley »

D Pope wrote:According to an interview I read, it depends on what his "Star Wars rulebook" says.

http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/intkja.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hack wrote: Wells himself has always been a huge influence on me, and Dickens is a spiritual brother (a popular tale-spinner).
:puke: :puke: :puke:
Dickens is rolling in his grave.


EDIT:
However, there is an interesting quote from the review of KJA's Hopscotch from the same website:
Infinity Plus wrote: "a couple of times Anderson is moved to notch up the hellish pathos of it all by starting to quote Sidney Carton from Dickens's A Tale of Two Cities: "It is a far, far better thing..." At this stage this reviewer entered a state of paralysis, unable to decide whether to throw the book at the wall or just to fold up in giggles."
And a review of Book 1 of The Saga of Seven Suns
Ibid wrote: Hidden Empire is not simply bad, it's embarrassingly bad, especially when you realise just how many books Kevin J. Anderson has produced previously. The individual motivations, galactic politics, technologies, culture - everything, in fact, seems crushingly predictable, poorly reasoned and frankly rather na&iumlve.

Earthlight publish a lot of good sf, so why they should feel the need to print this monstrosity is beyond me. Innocent trees have died to make this book, and such senseless slaughter should make you angry!

But I digress... (maybe this should be in a KJA review discussion)
"I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."
User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by A Thing of Eternity »

EDIT: Nevermind.
Image
User avatar
Robspierre
Posts: 2162
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 10:49
Location: Cascadia

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by Robspierre »

I like to view my best novels as literary "widescreen CinemaScope" productions, such as my Dune prequels with Brian Herbert, or my forthcoming multi-volume science fiction epic, The Saga of Seven Suns.
Emphasis mine.

So they are HIS prequels, Bobo is just along for the ride.
Brian Herbert, of course, brings with him a legitimacy and a deep understanding of Frank Herbert's work,
Rob
User avatar
TheDukester
Posts: 3808
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 13:44
Location: Operation Enduring Bacon

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by TheDukester »

Well, that was just cruising right along as the typical Journeyman cut-and-paste interview ... until the Dickens thing. ZOMG! :shock:

After the shock wore off, my first thought was: "Well, there's the one and only time Anderhack will ever be mentioned in the same breath as Dickens."
"Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.
User avatar
Hunchback Jack
Posts: 1983
Joined: 30 May 2008 15:02
Location: California, USA

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by Hunchback Jack »

KJA has compared the Chapterhouse:Dune cliffhanger to Dickens' "The Mystery of Edwin Drood" a few times in interviews, just to show his familiarity with the classics. So I'm not surprised he would take that one step further and claim a spiritual kinship with the guy.

I imagine we'll soon be hearing that he was going to send a signed copy of his first novel to Dickens, but Dickens passed away before he had the chance.

HBJ
"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
- Carl Sagan

I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
- Iain Banks
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by SandChigger »

Hunchback Jack wrote:I imagine we'll soon be hearing that he was going to send a signed copy of his first novel to Dickens, but Dickens passed away before he had the chance.
ZING!!! :laughing-rolling:

Dayum, are you on a roll today or what? :lol:
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
User avatar
Hunchback Jack
Posts: 1983
Joined: 30 May 2008 15:02
Location: California, USA

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by Hunchback Jack »

Heh. Thanks, but this is KJA we're talking about. Easy target. ;)

HBJ
"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
- Carl Sagan

I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
- Iain Banks
User avatar
merkin muffley
Posts: 1584
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
Location: War Room

Re: My skin is not my own...

Post by merkin muffley »

Hunchback Jack wrote:I imagine we'll soon be hearing that he was going to send a signed copy of his first novel to Dickens, but Dickens passed away before he had the chance.
Yeah, I thought Frank Herbert was his spiritual brother from a different mother. I've always thought, though, that Omnius was like the Ghost of Christmas Past with some Mengele.
"I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."
Post Reply