Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

A Thing of Eternity wrote:The way I see it, unless it was with Ix's help there is simply no way they'd be tweaking anything. That kind of tech would almost certainly have required computer assistance to develope and fine tune, so I would guess that it was in effect before the Jihad, then when the Jihad wiped out the computers they just switched over the navigation systems. From that time forward they were almost certainly just blindly copying the original designs, I would assume (note the word assume) that the mechanics that go into folding space would be far to complex to decypher and understand for someone un-aided by a computer.

Maybe mentats would be an exception, but still, I'm guessing that very little tinkering would have taken place post-Jihad.

Just my opinion.

Eru wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:The way I see it, unless it was with Ix's help there is simply no way they'd be tweaking anything. That kind of tech would almost certainly have required computer assistance to develope and fine tune, so I would guess that it was in effect before the Jihad, then when the Jihad wiped out the computers they just switched over the navigation systems. From that time forward they were almost certainly just blindly copying the original designs, I would assume (note the word assume) that the mechanics that go into folding space would be far to complex to decypher and understand for someone un-aided by a computer.

Maybe mentats would be an exception, but still, I'm guessing that very little tinkering would have taken place post-Jihad.

Just my opinion.

With all due respect, that's just silly. Of course Ix would be continually researching and modifying EVERYTHING in the Duniverse. That's what they do. And they DO develop navigation devices later on in the series which would imply a rather in-depth understanding of space-folding tech. And why wouldn't everyone, including the Ixians, employ Mentats? They are functionally a replacement for computers in the Duniverse, and with the incredible capacity and potential of the human mind, I see no reason Mentats couldn't surpass the capabilities of computers.

SandChigger wrote:

Lionel Horsepackage wrote:cum grano salis

Oooh ... Latin! Sling some more at us! The other lawyers around here are stingy with it.

Freakzilla wrote:The INM was a joint Ixian-Guild project.

chanilover wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:The INM was a joint Ixian-Guild project.

What's an INM?

Eru wrote:And why wouldn't everyone, including the Ixians, employ Mentats? They are functionally a replacement for computers in the Duniverse, and with the incredible capacity and potential of the human mind, I see no reason Mentats couldn't surpass the capabilities of computers.

inhuien wrote:

Eru wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:And why wouldn't everyone, including the Ixians, employ Mentats? They are functionally a replacement for computers in the Duniverse, and with the incredible capacity and potential of the human mind, I see no reason Mentats couldn't surpass the capabilities of computers.

But is it mentioned. That's all I was wondering.

Freakzilla wrote:

inhuien wrote:

Eru wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:And why wouldn't everyone, including the Ixians, employ Mentats? They are functionally a replacement for computers in the Duniverse, and with the incredible capacity and potential of the human mind, I see no reason Mentats couldn't surpass the capabilities of computers.

But is it mentioned. That's all I was wondering.

I can think of only like four Ixians appearing in the books, Bronso, Malky, Hwi and the Inquisitors. None were mentats that I remember.

Besides, mentats were illegal durring Leto II's reign.

Eru wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

inhuien wrote:

Eru wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:And why wouldn't everyone, including the Ixians, employ Mentats? They are functionally a replacement for computers in the Duniverse, and with the incredible capacity and potential of the human mind, I see no reason Mentats couldn't surpass the capabilities of computers.

But is it mentioned. That's all I was wondering.

I can think of only like four Ixians appearing in the books, Bronso, Malky, Hwi and the Inquisitors. None were mentats that I remember.

Besides, mentats were illegal durring Leto II's reign.

So? The Bene Gesserit employed Mentats during Leto's reign.

At least one of Leto's Duncans was a Mentat. There were still Mentats during that period.

*edit* Any of Leto's Duncans being mentats is from DE isn't it?

Eru wrote:True. The INM is really just a computer, right?

Freakzilla wrote:Plus, he tolerated the Ixians because of the illegal toys they made for him and no-ships were part of his plan. They probably could get away with using computers openly on their homeworlds.

Lionel Horsepackage wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:Plus, he tolerated the Ixians because of the illegal toys they made for him and no-ships were part of his plan. They probably could get away with using computers openly on their homeworlds.

Precisely. Their very existence and their technology is a great example of the "Unexpected Hanging Paradox" (i.e.,the day of the hanging will be a surprise, so it cannot happen at all, so therefore it will be a surprise). Leto can't see the No-Room because it's a No-Room, and he can't see those, for whatever technological reasons there are. But he also wasn't able to see the construction of the No-Room, which, presumably, he should have been able to see.

As in, at some point, the a No-Room is its components, which are not a No-Room, and thus, not hidden from prescience, so Leto should have been able to see those. Yet, somehow, he did not. I postulate that he did not because this was an independent action on his part.

Lionel Horsepackage wrote: Leto can't see the No-Room because it's a No-Room, and he can't see those, for whatever technological reasons there are. But he also wasn't able to see the construction of the No-Room, which, presumably, he should have been able to see.

As in, at some point, the a No-Room is its components, which are not a No-Room, and thus, not hidden from prescience, so Leto should have been able to see those. Yet, somehow, he did not. I postulate that he did not because this was an independent action on his part.

merkin muffley wrote:

Lionel Horsepackage wrote: Leto can't see the No-Room because it's a No-Room, and he can't see those, for whatever technological reasons there are. But he also wasn't able to see the construction of the No-Room, which, presumably, he should have been able to see.

As in, at some point, the a No-Room is its components, which are not a No-Room, and thus, not hidden from prescience, so Leto should have been able to see those. Yet, somehow, he did not. I postulate that he did not because this was an independent action on his part.

I'm lost. Are you saying that Leto should have been able to detect the No-Room because of the Room-ness of every other thing and event, including the construction of the No-Room itself? Leto needs Ixian devices to see things and his prescience isn't omnipotent.

Why do I feel like I have no idea what I'm talking about, and my brain hurts...

SandChigger wrote:

Lionel Horsepackage wrote:cum grano salis

Oooh ... Latin! Sling some more at us! The other lawyers around here are stingy with it.