Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

I haven't found any prior mention of this (even on Khalid Baheyeldin's page), but one possible origin of this odd word might be the Arabic verb faṭara, "to make, create, bring into being, bring forth (something; used of God)". Among the words derived from this verb is fiṭra "creation"; (plural fiṭar) "nature, (natural) disposition, constitution, temperament, innate character, instinct."

There is also faṭûr, meaning "breakfast", which is semantically far from the mark, but the form of the word is suggestive. A bit of vowel shortening and order switching (metathesis) and presto, change-o, futar! Not so inconceivable when you consider what FH did to other words to come up with some of the other language in the books. Like subakh al kuhar from sabaḥ al-khair.

Purely speculation, but the artificial, "created" nature of the Futars in the books makes it seem at least possible.

SandChigger wrote: There is also faṭûr, meaning "breakfast", which is semantically far from the mark, but the form of the word is suggestive.
.

I am certain that a Honored Matre on the run from one wouldn't think it was so far from the mark since she's about to become breakfast.

Ha ha, yeah, there is that aspect of it. Could FH have been having some fun with it?

Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words - did he learn Arabic, or had any speakers among his friends? BTW, SandChigger, you mentioned a book in your blog that could have been a source of some Arabic words in Dune, has further investigation shown anything else of interest in that direction?

MrFlibble wrote:Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words...

From the Arabic language. You should see all of the Arabic words there are there.

Nekhrun wrote:

MrFlibble wrote:Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words...

From the Arabic language. You should see all of the Arabic words there are there.

Beat me to that one.

Don't mind the yuck-yucks, MrFlibble. They mean well. Sort of. I think.

That one book didn't turn up too much more, but it was an interesting read, like many British travelogues from that period. I'll go back and review the blog post and see what else has to be added (probably in a new post).

Nekhrun wrote:

MrFlibble wrote:Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words...

From the Arabic language. You should see all of the Arabic words there are there.

Captain Obvious to the rescue, eh?

SandChigger wrote:That one book didn't turn up too much more, but it was an interesting read, like many British travelogues from that period. I'll go back and review the blog post and see what else has to be added (probably in a new post).

It's still a very interesting find. Do you intend on compiling some sort of database of possible sources of words, notions and maybe other things in Dune akin to (or in addition to) Khalid's Arabic themes page? Oh, and speaking of that, is there any in-depth research of Dune as work of literature concerning its sources, themes etc. apart from McNelly's writings and a few other online articles like the Star Wars Origins: Dune page? Any academic papers or books?

MrFlibble wrote:

Nekhrun wrote:

MrFlibble wrote:Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words...

From the Arabic language. You should see all of the Arabic words there are there.

Captain Obvious to the rescue, eh?

I don't get it.

Nekhrun wrote:

MrFlibble wrote:

Nekhrun wrote:

MrFlibble wrote:Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words...

From the Arabic language. You should see all of the Arabic words there are there.

Captain Obvious to the rescue, eh?

I don't get it.

Captain Obvious doesn't get "Captain Obvious"? What a day for irony!

MrFlibble wrote:It's still a very interesting find. Do you intend on compiling some sort of database of possible sources of words, notions and maybe other things in Dune akin to (or in addition to) Khalid's Arabic themes page?

Haven't really thought that far ahead; I guess it depends on how many interesting items turn up.

Khalid's page is a great resource, but it's incomplete, mainly as a result of his not having read the books, I suspect.

Oh, and speaking of that, is there any in-depth research of Dune as work of literature concerning its sources, themes etc. apart from McNelly's writings and a few other online articles like the Star Wars Origins: Dune page? Any academic papers or books?

This sounds like a job for the OMPHALOS and his biblio page!

^ agreed. If I wasn't a student who is ironically currently procrastinating, I would engage little projects like this. Hell, If I ever go for graduate studies, I would use Dune as a dissertation for literary analysis.

reverendmotherQ. wrote:If I ever go for graduate studies, I would use Dune as a dissertation for literary analysis.

That would be great By the way, what's your major?

On a related note, I wonder if you need any kind of approval from the copyright holders if you want to quote copyrighted material for the purposes of literary analysis?

MrFlibble wrote:

reverendmotherQ. wrote:If I ever go for graduate studies, I would use Dune as a dissertation for literary analysis.

That would be great By the way, what's your major?

On a related note, I wonder if you need any kind of approval from the copyright holders if you want to quote copyrighted material for the purposes of literary analysis?

English writing, specializing in technical/scientific and creative. I don't believe so unless you are publishing it in mass. Hmm. Very good question actually.

Ah, thanks for the reminder; I knew there was something else I wanted to check and post about here!

MrFlibble wrote:On a related note, I wonder if you need any kind of approval from the copyright holders if you want to quote copyrighted material for the purposes of literary analysis?

Unless you're wanting to use a table, graph, photograph, map or other illustration, you don't need to get the prior approval of the copyright holder.

For textual quotation, the standard of "fair use" applies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically, you're free to quote for purposes of review, analysis, parody, etc. so long as you don't quote too much of the original (depends on the total percentage of the original quoted and whether the quoted parts are the "essential core/heart" of the work ... whatever that means! ).

For example, if we ever decided to do a "Dune Concordance", we probably wouldn't be able to quote the passages in which keywords appear like in a traditional (Biblical) concordance because it might run afoul of the amount restriction. (Maybe not.)

Hm. Thank you. This is quite helpful.
URGH. Damn Herbert Properties and their systematic ruin of our favorite book while banning us from expanding and enriching the resources available to Dune fans.

Well, you just have to be more clever than they are.

And that's not terribly difficult. FH took the family brains with him.

fuck em.
in the neck.

I say the Living Herbert Parasites have abused the copyright to the point it doesn't even exist.

Parasites feel different ?
good, spend some of Frank's money on lawyers ... you assholes. all of you ... everyone ... and the people you married and your spawn ...

fuck you.

swear to God, someone get me the Spanish Dune Film, I'll bootleg around the fucking world and back.
wanna write Dune7 ? I'll get it printed (on newpaper stock up in Abilene, but hey, that's publishing, too; Right, Keith ?)

in fact, I think I'll mosey over to freenetforums and start up about a hundred message boards on the
variation of "The Real Official Dune Forum and Website, approved by the Herbert Estate" ....

fuck 'em all.
in the neck.
twice.

Neck fuck/Tracheaphilia/Trachyphyllia



Sea, he's a sponge want ever way you cut it.

^ahahahahahah!
Yeah, once they spend all of his money, then its possible to have a more open forum for writing on the market about Dune. As long as it alway refers and remains consistent with the original, why prohibit discussion and analytical exposition on what will be a great literary work for study if only some dolts would get off the Herbert High horse and get a real life that isn't trying to badly live under Frank's shadow.

SandRider wrote:swear to God, someone get me the Spanish Dune Film, I'll bootleg around the fucking world and back.
wanna write Dune7 ? I'll get it printed (on newpaper stock up in Abilene, but hey, that's publishing, too; Right, Keith ?)

in fact, I think I'll mosey over to freenetforums and start up about a hundred message boards on the
variation of "The Real Official Dune Forum and Website, approved by the Herbert Estate" ....

You sure have a lot of free time on your hands, don't you I didn't mean anything like that, actually, it's just I have this little paper I wrote for the course in "Linguostylistic Analysis" (whatever that means) a couple years ago, and I was thinking I might sometime have it published somewhere (although it's mostly pure blah-blah anyway). I used the material from Chapterhouse Dune for that analysis ("'Word' as a concept of culture" or something), so I got worrying if I might need to contact the HLP prior to any attempts at sending it anywhere (not that I'm going to try for that anytime soon, just pondering the idea).

SandChigger wrote:Unless you're wanting to use a table, graph, photograph, map or other illustration, you don't need to get the prior approval of the copyright holder.

For textual quotation, the standard of "fair use" applies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically, you're free to quote for purposes of review, analysis, parody, etc. so long as you don't quote too much of the original (depends on the total percentage of the original quoted and whether the quoted parts are the "essential core/heart" of the work ... whatever that means! ).

Thanks for the information.

You're welcome.

MrFlibble wrote:I have this little paper I wrote for the course in "Linguostylistic Analysis" (whatever that means) a couple years ago, and I was thinking I might sometime have it published somewhere (although it's mostly pure blah-blah anyway). I used the material from Chapterhouse Dune for that analysis ("'Word' as a concept of culture" or something), so I got worrying if I might need to contact the HLP prior to any attempts at sending it anywhere (not that I'm going to try for that anytime soon, just pondering the idea).

Nah, this shouldn't be a problem. I personally wouldn't give them the satisfaction of contacting and asking them.

(Keep in mind that unofficial/unauthorized Science of Dune that came out a year or so ago. It was a collection of essays by various people, and in the front says something about the book not being approved or authorized by the HLP.)

SandChigger wrote: (Keep in mind that unofficial/unauthorized Science of Dune that came out a year or so ago. It was a collection of essays by various people, and in the front says something about the book not being approved or authorized by the HLP.)

I totally forgot about that, I should grab it some time...

Meh. If you can find it at the library, or in the bargain bin, yeah, grab it. I was considerably underwhelmed.

Fibble - Omph's got a thread @ T(A)U that lists a bunch of academic papers on Frank's Dune ....
(don't have it bookmarked & won't search, Omph will be by and link you - or search yourself,
I think it's "Dune Resources" or somesuch.

me being no respecter of copyright whatsoever (fuck you, ideas are free)
copied some of them to the archive I started to do about a year and a half
ago - you may be able to get in - these netforum people are flaky -
sometimes I can get it, sometimes not - maybe my fault, Omph says
it's still there ...

http://sandridersdunearchive.netforums. ... d84195877a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

>>edit<<

it's still there - and fuck, did we get spammed ....
If I was any kind of a forum admin, I'd clean that up; but I learned all I know about adminning from Byron Merritt, so ...


Chig- firefox spelchek don't like "adminning" - wouldn't that be the correct form, if we be makin' up words an' shit ?