Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

loremaster wrote:

loremaster wrote:I actually thought one plausible hypothesis was going to be a "time protein" aspect of genetics.

Gibberish? but when you look at how mutation occurs, it is quite conceivable that any sort of protein structure which manipulated time to the tiniest degree would be the basis of the whole books.

By then taking commonly known mechanisms in genetics (such as copy number or expression) you could vary strength. Translocation of the time-bending coding region into other proteins would generate many new proteins which might have new abilities. Mutation would generate similar, non/semi functional proteins a la Siona.

In much the same way as i once wanted to explain OM via oscillations in molecules, i think time-proteins might explain prescience AND om.

Imagine that one somehow quantumly unstable protein could come about, which had implications for time. If that protein could oscillate in such a way as to generate a signal, where everything occuring around it could subtly alter the frequency/variation of the many-dimensional wave it generated, then potentially another receptive protein might be able to pick up and decode that signal, which might have come from the past or the future in time. Interference would also explain how prescients were shielded from other prescients. Guildsmen might be poor recievers but good transmitters, Or it might be the converse (not transmitting therefore unable to be seen.) Someone like Leto would probably be both good at recieving AND transmitting. I dont know, its a method, not a mechanism :p .

Being biological would instantly validate any and all breeding/hereditary links too, since thats the whole basis for biology.

On the other hand my understanding of physics is cack, so signals which travel in time much like others travel in 3 might be total bollocks. But to me, any wave which DID travel in time would explain lots, especially if that wave had the ability to "collapse" any quantum uncertainties, thus "Locking" the future in place.


Feel free to pick that apart at your leisure. I'll be dissapointed if i dont provoke a reaction in at least 'Chig and Phaedrus.

Shameless self bump, but i noticed what Terimikitirmasu (sp?) said about only reading six pages and figured, if im on the seventh, i have no chance!

Sadistic - epigenetics is a fascinating field, but it never encodes anything new, it only modifies pre-existing genes. methylation can reduce expression etc but it will almost never, due to it's massive resetting during meiosis and embyrogenesis, produce novel ideas. Errors in epigenetics (for example, imprinting[/] in prada-willis/angelmann syndrome) modify expression of existing sequences, they dont have any potential to recombine.

Cellular memory does NOT have to be DNA based. There are dozens of examples of cells remembering "simple" past which can then be transmitted to decended cells. Cells have mechanisms for remembering recent bouts of oxidative stress, of damage. RNA, Proteins and hundreds of other messenger molecules can remain in/around cells for years. Cells contains lots of marks and signals showing their history.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I love wave interferance patterns. Once you understand how phase cancellation works they make more sense (I would imagine, I learned wave physics long before partical physics), but I just get so much enjoyment out of not understanding why the wave pattern fails to show up when you monitor which path the particle takes. Good mental gymnastics!

SandChigger wrote:...why there aren't multiple versions of a persona in the OM of someone who received from different sources. (I didn't recall that last having come up as an issue in the books. ???)

SandChigger wrote:(The Hack seems to think that OM personae learn and remember and share information as well, as indicated by the Serena-in-memory crowing to Sheeana about how she taught Muad'Dib about the art of jihad, in one or the other of the "Dune 7" tragequels. Just to be clear, that's an example of an RM accessing the memories of a non-RM female persona who remembers what interactions she had with a male ancestor as an OM persona in the mind of that male ancestor. Yeah, that makes sense. )

lotek wrote:

SandChigger wrote:(The Hack seems to think that OM personae learn and remember and share information as well, as indicated by the Serena-in-memory crowing to Sheeana about how she taught Muad'Dib about the art of jihad, in one or the other of the "Dune 7" tragequels. Just to be clear, that's an example of an RM accessing the memories of a non-RM female persona who remembers what interactions she had with a male ancestor as an OM persona in the mind of that male ancestor. Yeah, that makes sense. )

but my head hurts now

Computation: A reflected Lady Jessica lived out a pseudo-life in Alia's awareness. He saw this as he saw the reflected pre-ghola Duncan Idaho which remained a constant in his own awareness. Alia had this awareness by being one of the pre-born. He had it out of the Tleilaxu regeneration tanks. Yet Alia denied that reflection, risked her mother's life. Therefore Alia was not in contact with that pseudo-Jessica within. Therefore Alia was completely possessed by another pseudo-life to the exclusion of all others.

loremaster wrote:Lotek - you're absolutely right, my issue is with Duncan's assertion that "Alia wouldnt try to harm jessica if she was still in touch with jessica-within".

Why? is there some moral compulsion which prevents you attacking your OM ancestors?

loremaster wrote:Why? is there some moral compulsion which prevents you attacking your OM ancestors?

reverendmotherQ. wrote:Alia's possession by the Baron no doubt strengthened her desire to obliterate her mother, but certainly before the onslaught of total possession she had personal motives too.
Alas, I do not have the copy of Children of Dune I have been in need of for a long time to back up my claim and it's been years since I have read it. But I remember sensing personal motives intermingling with the Barons and by the time she was completely subjugated by his control in her consciousness she had no way of enacting inhibitions or accessing her own sense of moral restraint.

trang wrote:Of the first three books,(Paul is a given) Alia, just below Chani, leaves my heart hurting. She is set up from birth and just has no path of her own. I would tend to agree that she had motives but I feel that her soul deep love for Paul would have prevented that at any cost. That is, up until Paul walked into the dessert and before the barons eventual corruption of her.

The window between those is small, and her feelings could have built rapidly. Counterpoint, FH brings us the preacher and I think her curiosity about it being Paul would have the reins back again.

IMHO.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I think they were about on par with eachother for vulnerability, but the twins saw what was happening to Alia and avoided large amounts of spice, keeping their inner voices a bit quiter and more managable. Until Leto wound up being severely overdosed again and again of course, at which point he did have to deal with possesion.