Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

rain_maker wrote:

redbugpest wrote: His getting the idea to do it from the OH is NOT a fact (Duh). I never said anything about if he did or did not use it in PoD. Another shining example of ignoring what was actually said in favor of creating controversy.

You should have included the movie name in italics - or am i supposed to know every line of every move ever made?

Like I said, why would he want to? It would be an enormous wast of time. So, of course, because he(an adult) wont pay attention to you, you (an adult) resort to name calling....

Nanner, nanner, nanner! LOL!

1. There isn't any controversy. "X" was not in Paul of Dune, but is in Winds of Dune. The lack of "X" in Paul of Dune was repeatedly noted by various OH'ers prior to Winds of Dune. You tried to insinuate that, basically, this didn't happen and as such the OH'ers pointing it out was irrelevant. You have now admitted that a major aspect of a primary character from Dune was entirely and completely omitted by the Hack in Paul of Dune. THAT is major FAIL (note: pretending to have neither confirmed or denied it after the fact is not relevant, similar to how you refuse to confirm or deny your membership in the very "Special" forces)

2. It's one of the most famous lines from a very recent cult-classic. Not knowing this quote is like not knowing the "cannot take our FREEDOM" quote from Braveheart.

3. I'm betting the Hack can't type. With all the dicta-hicking, he's never had to actually be able to write anything on his own. Additionally, we don't want him to pay attention to us, but rather, we'd prefer to not have to deal with him indirectly through his sycophants.

1. Actually, I said: "Unbelievable. He ties in with an obscure fact from the originals, and you think it is because of the OH.... And you think HE thinks his shite don't stink..." Was a simple statement on your ego, not any kind of commentary on x not being in PoD, but then in WoD. Sheesh.

2. Again - you assume that everyone has seen it. Fail.

3. He's not, and that is what you get for having an open board. You just cannot have the best of both worlds....

SandChigger wrote:

redbugpest wrote:Oh my, Did someone call you cause I was online?

Wow, talk about your inflated senses of self-importance.

I'm just trying to be more like you!

NOT!

redbugpest wrote:

rain_maker wrote:

redbugpest wrote: His getting the idea to do it from the OH is NOT a fact (Duh). I never said anything about if he did or did not use it in PoD. Another shining example of ignoring what was actually said in favor of creating controversy.

You should have included the movie name in italics - or am i supposed to know every line of every move ever made?

Like I said, why would he want to? It would be an enormous wast of time. So, of course, because he(an adult) wont pay attention to you, you (an adult) resort to name calling....

Nanner, nanner, nanner! LOL!

1. There isn't any controversy. "X" was not in Paul of Dune, but is in Winds of Dune. The lack of "X" in Paul of Dune was repeatedly noted by various OH'ers prior to Winds of Dune. You tried to insinuate that, basically, this didn't happen and as such the OH'ers pointing it out was irrelevant. You have now admitted that a major aspect of a primary character from Dune was entirely and completely omitted by the Hack in Paul of Dune. THAT is major FAIL (note: pretending to have neither confirmed or denied it after the fact is not relevant, similar to how you refuse to confirm or deny your membership in the very "Special" forces)

2. It's one of the most famous lines from a very recent cult-classic. Not knowing this quote is like not knowing the "cannot take our FREEDOM" quote from Braveheart.

3. I'm betting the Hack can't type. With all the dicta-hicking, he's never had to actually be able to write anything on his own. Additionally, we don't want him to pay attention to us, but rather, we'd prefer to not have to deal with him indirectly through his sycophants.

1. Actually, I said: "Unbelievable. He ties in with an obscure fact from the originals, and you think it is because of the OH.... And you think HE thinks his shite don't stink..." Was a simple statement on your ego, not any kind of commentary on x not being in PoD, but then in WoD. Sheesh.

2. Again - you assume that everyone has seen it. Fail.

3. He's not, and that is what you get for having an open board. You just cannot have the best of both worlds....

Once again you avoid the point.

And yet, within 24 hours of us posting something mildly inflammatory yet reiterating the Hackness of KJA, the redbug is back to defend him. Perhaps I truly am a fisher of men...

THE POINT here:

1. "EARL" Gurney-- Paul asked for an "Earldom for Gurney, CHOAM directorship in the fief of Caladan", a paragraph later, when he asks Jessica what she wants, she asks for "maybe Caladan". Frank never mentions the Earldom again.

WHY?

1 Not important
2 Doesn't need to tell that story
3 Plum Forgot (which proves how important he considered it)

PoD -Not mentioned, we jokingly say what about Earl Gurney?
WoD - Not mentioned for the first half of the book, last half... EARL GURNEY!

Not to mention most of the 'tension' from the last half of the book centers around Earl Gurney not being around and pouting in the woods while Caladan's democratic government secedes from the Empire. (Yeah, a democratic government, we cant have DUNE be run by evil feudal lords! Caladan was not a democracy in DUNE, why is it now?).

Yet for the first half of the book Gurney is running around playing Atreides Henchman with no mention at all of his political duties. Way to leave a ditch in the road if the last part of the book centers on his ironic sentimentality causing him to miss the 'revolution'.

I won't bother to call KJA on the whole Protocol of Earldom in the DUNE universe. Who was it that Frank used to remind us of Protocol surrounding lords in the DUNE universe?

redbugpest wrote:Unbelievable. He ties in with an obscure fact from the originals, and you think it is because of the OH.... And you think HE thinks his shite don't stink...

Isn't it amazing how much he cares about staying true to the obscure facts (which he often gets wrong), yet can't grasp why people would be upset that he ignores facts presented on the first page?

Ampoliros wrote:Not to mention most of the 'tension' from the last half of the book centers around Earl Gurney not being around and pouting in the woods while Caladan's democratic government secedes from the Empire. (Yeah, a democratic government, we cant have DUNE be run by evil feudal lords! Caladan was not a democracy in DUNE, why is it now?).

You've GOT to be shitting me.

I won't bother to call KJA on the whole Protocol of Earldom in the DUNE universe. Who was it that Frank used to remind us of Protocol surrounding lords in the DUNE universe?

Gurney?

rain_maker wrote: The Hack may want to come over here to defend himself .... himself. Hiding behind sycophants is embarrasing, or at least it would be for me.

I think you assign way too much importance to how your opinions affect him and what he does. It's a way of self validation...

Freakzilla wrote:

Ampoliros wrote:Not to mention most of the 'tension' from the last half of the book centers around Earl Gurney not being around and pouting in the woods while Caladan's democratic government secedes from the Empire. (Yeah, a democratic government, we cant have DUNE be run by evil feudal lords! Caladan was not a democracy in DUNE, why is it now?).

You've GOT to be shitting me.

But don't all of The Hack's book's have riveting political commentary and drama?

1. Actually, I said: "Unbelievable. He ties in with an obscure fact from the originals, and you think it is because of the OH.... And you think HE thinks his shite don't stink..." Was a simple statement on your ego, not any kind of commentary on x not being in PoD, but then in WoD.

I think you miss a major point, there is nothing, I repeat nothing, OBSCURE, about the originals, especially where OH are involved. ANY... ANY detail from the originals that is utilized in an inconsistent way in the Nu Dune, Fan Fic or otherwhere,
will be called out here, for sure.

If you read the boards, that is about as obvious as the color of grants white horse.

I cant testify that the Earl title was not used in POD. I cant yet for WOD (have been putting off that brain hemorrhage)

If KJA did/didnt do things based on comments here? Only "the Jacket and the Hair" would know.

I will lean towards Freaks deductions, it seems a bit fishy in Denmark.

going back, here are some some quotes (provided by an anonymous tipster ) from PoD that DO mention the earldom.

Paul of Dune wrote:Officially, Gurney had been granted an earldom on Caladan as part of Shaddam's surrender terms, but Paul had given Gurney no chance to settle here.

Affable Gurney, the troubadour warrior whose talent with a baliset was as well known as his skill with a sword. He had made the man an earl of Caladan, then denied him any time to settle there and make a real life. Gurney, I am sorry. And you did not complain for a moment.

He already had an earldom on Caladan, but Jessica had taken the title of Duchess, and the people there loved her. He didn't want to take anything away from her. But... Giedi Prime? Paul was doing him no favors.

So I was wrong, for some part.

However, being wrong on one point ("Earl" Gurney) doesn't dismiss the fact that KJA is able to mention obscure facts from the book, and yet patently ignore blatant facts (Birthplace, Trips off world, Mentat training, the role of a secure home in Hero mythology...)

trang wrote:I will lean towards Freaks deductions, it seems a bit fishy in Denmark.

They eat fish for breakfast over there.

You've never started your day with a couple of Kippers?

Paul of Dune wrote:Officially, Gurney had been granted an earldom on Caladan as part of Shaddam's surrender terms, but Paul had given Gurney no chance to settle here.

Affable Gurney, the troubadour warrior whose talent with a baliset was as well known as his skill with a sword. He had made the man an earl of Caladan, then denied him any time to settle there and make a real life. Gurney, I am sorry. And you did not complain for a moment.

He already had an earldom on Caladan, but Jessica had taken the title of Duchess, and the people there loved her. He didn't want to take anything away from her. But... Giedi Prime? Paul was doing him no favors.

Jesus, I could have written that. It sounds like the inner monologue from that freaking Cher movie Mermaids or whatever.

When Gurney and Jessica return to Arrakis in CoD, doesn't FH say that Gurney had been on Caladan the whole time learing BG tricks from Jessica?



I'll have to check on that...

I do believe you are correct

(Needs a quote, tho. I looked around a little the other morning, but didn't find anything definite.)

But Jessica saw that Javid had no pleasure in this attention, marked him for
Gurney's special study. And there came Gurney with five trusted men, signaling
that they had the suspicious laggards under interrogation. He walked with the
rolling stride of a powerful man, glance flicking left, right, all around, every
muscle flowing through the relaxed alertness she had taught him out of the Bene
Gesserit prana-bindu manual. He was an ugly lump of trained reflexes, a killer,
and altogether terrifying to some, but Jessica loved him and prized him above
all other living men. The scar of an inkvine whip rippled along his jaw, giving
him a sinister appearance, but a smile softened his face as he saw Stilgar.

I assume prana-bindu training takes more than a few months. She was training him to test Leto II.

Closest I've found in a quick search... I'll keep looking.

There is a bit about him chosing to return to Caladan after Paul's "death" but it doesn't say he stayed there.

Alia is counting on the meeting between Gurney & Leto to put Leto somewhat off balance ... so there hasn't been a lot of contact between them, meaning that wherever Gurney has been, it wasn't on Arrakis.

I'm listening to to COD at work atm (managed 4 hours today ) and I've been listening out for that sort of thing... I don't remember hearing anything concrete so far...

This has been in the back of my mind while reading this thread.Giedi Prime was renamed by Gurney Halleck to Gammu, did he have any involvement in the Planets administration beyond that?

inhuien wrote:This has been in the back of my mind while reading this thread.Giedi Prime was renamed by Gurney Halleck to Gammu, did he have any involvement in the Planets administration beyond that?

He appearantly renamed lots of planets, including Caladan to Dan. It was called the great remapping. I don't think that implies he had official duties there.

Freakzilla wrote:

inhuien wrote:This has been in the back of my mind while reading this thread.Giedi Prime was renamed by Gurney Halleck to Gammu, did he have any involvement in the Planets administration beyond that?

He appearantly renamed lots of planets, including Caladan to Dan. It was called the great remapping. I don't think that implies he had official duties there.

Actually i think it is said in Heretics that the change of Caladan to Dan was due to the common evolution of shortening names.

Seraphan wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

inhuien wrote:This has been in the back of my mind while reading this thread.Giedi Prime was renamed by Gurney Halleck to Gammu, did he have any involvement in the Planets administration beyond that?

He appearantly renamed lots of planets, including Caladan to Dan. It was called the great remapping. I don't think that implies he had official duties there.

Actually i think it is said in Heretics that the change of Caladan to Dan was due to the common evolution of shortening names.

HoD wrote:When the Harkonnens were forced to abandon it, colonists left behind by the
Scattering came from the Danian group, calling it by the Halleck name given to
it in the great remapping. The colonists had been known as Caladanian in those
days but millennia tended to shorten some labels.

101 on my PDF.