And that C.E.T. "neutral island" is...(drum roll).
SandChigger
Jeez...can this have been any more obvious? Hasn't anyone noticed this before?
(FH in the Religion Appendix of Dune) wrote:Troubadours composed witty, biting songs about the one hundred and twenty-one "Old Cranks" as the C.E.T. delegates came to be called. (The name arose from a ribald joke which played on the C.E.T. initials and called the delegates "Cranks-Effing-Turners.") One of the songs, "Brown Repose," has undergone periodic revival and is popular even today:
"Consider leis.
Brown repose—and
The tragedy
In all of those
Cranks! All those Cranks!
So laze—so laze
Through all your days.
Time has toll'd for
M'Lord Sandwich!"
Um...Leis, people? Brown repose? A toll (atoll?) for Lord Sandwich? (Yeah, that last's a bit of a stretch...but then again....) Lazing through the days...those damned lucky Pacific Island Types!
Any reason NOT to think that the location intended is the Sandwich Islands? AKA Hawai'i?
What would be so witty about including those references if the CET meeting was on Crete, Madagascar, or the Isle of Man, for example?
chanilover
Would Hawaii have sunk by then? I remember seeing maps on the wall in school of the continents shifting so I wonder what the Earth would look like in 11,000 years time (is that when the Butlerian Jihad is due?)
SandChigger
Nah, 11~13,000 years is nothing in geological time. (I think the oldest island is supposed to be something like 5 million years old; they get younger as you move south-east down the archipelago, with Hawai'i itself being the youngest, with still active volcanoes.)
The islands sit pretty much right in the middle of the Pacific plate, so they're not going to "sink" for a long time...they might erode away before that? Anyway, as soon as one island moves far enough away from the "hot spot" below, a new one forms....
Too bad it wasn't Bali Hai...all those great songs...
Freakzilla
I thought the Hawaiian Islands were still growing.
The tectonic plate is moving to the Northwest while the hotspot that creates the volcanoes remanes stationary, periodically creating new volcanoes. This is why only the SW islands are still active.
In the distant future there will be more islands.
Omphalos
Freakzilla wrote:I thought the Hawaiian Islands were still growing.
The tectonic plate is moving to the Northwest while the hotspot that creates the volcanoes remanes stationary, periodically creating new volcanoes. This is why only the SW islands are still active.
In the distant future there will be more islands.
Yea, I was gonna say I would think with all theunderground volcanic activity that more land would build up by then.
Great eye, Sandchigger. I never would have put that together.
And didnt FH live for some time in Hawaii? Or like to go there for family vacations?
Joe 90
I try not to get too exercised about differences in the traditions handed down over millenia (JRRT's explanation for discrepancies) but I have been idly wondering how the CET met on an island of old Earth when the timing seems to indicate it was not very long after the Earth was comprehensively nuked by the Jihad.
Maybe in a time of long established space travel island might mean orbiting facility?
Or did I miss something?
Freakzilla
Joe 90 wrote:I try not to get too exercised about differences in the traditions handed down over millenia (JRRT's explanation for discrepancies) but I have been idly wondering how the CET met on an island of old Earth when the timing seems to indicate it was not very long after the Earth was comprehensively nuked by the Jihad.
Maybe in a time of long established space travel island might mean orbiting facility?
Or did I miss something?
No, you didn't miss anything, I think the authors missed it.
Don't worry though, if it's not explained in Sandworms or the official FAQ after that, they will probably write an 1,800 page trilogy about it and explain it all. Or like other issues, they could simply state that they found notes to the contrary of FHs published works and this is what he really meant to write.
SandChigger
Hey, Joe.
JRRT was referring to discrepancies found in his own works, right? This is a potential discrepancy introduced by later writers. (If they say "But it's in the Notes!" then I say "Prove it.")
The bombardment took place at the beginning of the Jihad. According to the timeline on this site (emphasis added):
200 B.G.
Using atomics, the League wipes out the thinking machines of Earth. The nuclear attack renders Earth uninhabitable for centuries. [The Butlerian Jihad]
No definite date is given for the C.E.T. meeting on Earth, but based on the Religion appendix it has to take place early in the A.G. period.
Joe 90 wrote:Maybe in a time of long established space travel island might mean orbiting facility?
Sure...that seems reasonable and makes perfect sense, doesn't it? But it's not what the text says and there is absolutely nothing in the passage or elsewhere which would support such a reading. Particularly if you take the song into consideration. (Or was the songwriter just playing off the old allusions of "island"? Why the reference to Lord Sandwich then? Who's going to remember Lord Sandwich in 13,000 years? Especially after all the databases are gone.)
Sorry—and I don't mean this against you personally—but it was a silly idea when Zeus or whoever first suggested it and it's a silly idea now.
And probably very close to what they'll go with.
Joe 90
No worries Chigger, this is something I do to occupy my brain while eating, it's not important.
In fact after watching a recording of the Jeremy Clarkson programme about the St Nazaire raid last night, I don't think anything I ever did was very important! I knew the basic story but, like his similar programme about Arnhem, the testimony of the veterans makes me feel very small and ready to cry!
[BEGIN SECTION OF SOLE MAN BASHING]
Sole man (Post subject: On what-the-Frig is this about?)
Hun? Correct me if I'm wrong, but, what does have Anything to do with DUNE?
guildnavigator
Read the thread. They are discussing whether or not hawaii would exist 10000 years from now. They are talking about this because an island is mentioned that the CET met on in Dune, is suggested to be Hawaii. Thats your explanation.
SandChigger
Sole man wrote:Hun? Correct me if I'm wrong, but, what does have Anything to do with DUNE?
Read much?
(And you don't know me well enough to call me "Hun". ONLY ChiggerBint currently holds that honor.)
Tleilax Master B
Sole man wrote:Hun? Correct me if I'm wrong, but, what does have Anything to do with DUNE?
You're wrong. You have officially been corrected
Omphalos
Tleilax Master B wrote:Sole man wrote:Hun? Correct me if I'm wrong, but, what does have Anything to do with DUNE?
You're wrong. You have officially been corrected
It would be much easier to tell him when he is right. But then we would be silent.
chanilover
Yet another anal grunt from Sloey. Why hasn't he called someone an idiot?
Joe 90
No, my ramble about St Nazaire had nothing to do with Dune other putting our Dune ramblings in perspective. Sorry and all that!
SandChigger
I really don't think that was what Sloe Thang was on about. Don't worry about it, eh!
Tleilax Master B
Seriously, Joe, you can pretty much blatantly disregard anything that comes from Sloe Man. Soon, we will all be called old farts and idiots. Once that happens, you have officially been accepted into the brotherhood of Dune fans on this site
Eru
Tleilax Master B wrote:Seriously, Joe, you can pretty much blatantly disregard anything that comes from Sloe Man. Soon, we will all be called old farts and idiots. Once that happens, you have officially been accepted into the brotherhood of Dune fans on this site
I've always said, the villiage idiot is an intregral to our society! Here, he is a part of our hazing rituals. But, Joe's not accepted until he "responds" appropriately against the Sloester. That is a very important part of the hazing.
Omphalos
Joe 90 wrote:No, my ramble about St Nazaire had nothing to do with Dune other putting our Dune ramblings in perspective. Sorry and all that!
Actually, Im pretty sure he wasnt even responding to you. He just read the first post and decided to be an a$$ and ask what Hawaii has to do with Dune. Not like we can expect him to read a whole thread, as that may make his little head hurt too much.
[END SOLE MAN BASHING]
nessus7487
I think if youre going to compare the Butlerian Jihad in the LEgends series with Frank's statements in the appendicies youre going to be frustrated. The evolution of the major schools as well as the changes in religon and descriptions of the Jihad are completely different.
Bridge of Hrethgir anyone?
Omphalos
Here's a new one! ABANDON ALL LOGIC, YE WHO ENTER THESE 8 NEW BOOKS!