Re: ATTN: Redbugpest Winds v. Dune
Posted: 08 Aug 2009 13:20
Now I will show you how an OH answers questions. Hopefully you will recognize my point in asking these questions. I’m going to rearrange some of the questions since some need to be answer before others. I commend you for actually responding. Time for school.
redbugpest wrote: “Page 24, Shaddam's envoy arrives. They say it was less than a month since Paul died. Page 25 Alia comments on how "it's been a month" since Paul died”
The difference is that one is the voice of the narrator, while the other is actual dialog. People do have a tendency to round dates and times to approximate in conversation. I think that it is just as correct for Alia to refer to 27 days as a month.
Sure we round dates, but Alia seems one moment to be amazed how fast he got there and also dismissive of ‘well, it has been a month’ in the same page; yet she still hasn’t told her own mother that Paul died.
My earlier comment was meant as a tongue and cheek response. In all reality, Alia would have been the one to make the decision on when and how to inform Jessica, as Isbar mentioned on Page 32. I direct you to the next question.
Why does Shaddam know about Paul's Death before Jessica?
Shaddam, being a rival for the throne, would have had a spy network, and would know of these events rapidly.
Excellent! Yes, he'd have a spy network. +1 point for the redbug. Now, here's where you lose. Why does Shaddam's spy network come as a surprise to Alia? Alia(KJA) seems to act like she’s the only one with a spy network. Jessica has her own feelers in Alia’s court, as does Gurney. Why then is this information all over the universe in a few days yet Jessica doesn’t hear about it?
Which leads us to:
“We needed to make the proper arrangements, and gather a party of appropriate importance. It was necessary to obtain a sufficiently impressive Guild ship to bring this terrible news”
Isbar – Page 32
“…we took the first vessel available after Regent Alia…”
Here we have two conversations. In the context of the first conversation, Isbar is upset by Jessica’s angry outburst, and is obviously searching for excuses for the long delay in getting word to Jessica. No.
In the second conversation, Isbar is now trying to impress Jessica with the power of Alia and the priesthood by claiming that they took the first ship available, forcing all the passengers to be delayed. No, its just because you either have 2 writers who don’t check each other’s work, or you have a dicta-hiking ‘author’ who ‘edits’ his books while watching summer blockbusters on DVD. And borrows/lifts heavily from them.
Isbar is now being pushed into the role of a sycophant, which is in keeping with the tenor of the religion as it evolves into what we see in later in CoD. Yes, because in KJA dune, if you are a high priest all you love is power and you want to kill your gods so you can rule supreme in their name. Because Korba did it. Because Javid is going to do it. Therefore High-Priest= assassination plot. Fanboys rejoice. BTW Isbar’s assassination plot is all announced and dealt with in less than a page. But we do get a wayku scene where Gurney kills him all Godfather style.
The main point of this question leads into KJA’s complete disregard for how a monopoly on space travel: The Guild, would operate. Imagine if the only way to get around on Earth was the 747. No radio, no satilites, the 747’s are the fastest and only method of travel. Okay a crisis breaks out in France, and the French Premire needs to get to NYC as fast as possible. Do they delay a passenger 747 to get him there? Or is it possible, just maybe, they they have a 747 set aside for diplomatic measures. France isn’t the richest country on Earth, but they sure as shit will put aside cash to keep one of those 747s on standby for such emergencies. I'm also pretty sure 747s travel from place to place more than once every few weeks
Just because the Heighliner is the only Guild ship mentioned in Dune doesn’t mean the Guild ONLY uses Heighliners. KJA himself seems to switch often between Houses using diplomatic couriers to send messages quickly. In fact if it fits the story, the message gets there instantly via courier, yet main characters have to travel passenger class, usually taking days to get somewhere.
In Winds he even mentions one of the private frigates that House Atredies uses to travel via heighliner, yet it seems like Gurney, Jessica, and Duncan are always out in the passenger areas. Oh, right, to build tension.
In regards to some of the other questions:
Why does Jessica not know Chani is pregnant?
Not sure - don’t remember if she knew in the originals
They have almost nine months in which to tell her (the pregnacy was accelerated, but I don't think that means it happend overnight). The Bene Gesserit Breeding Program is a major component in Dune lore. The Bene Gesserit would be extremely interested in Paul’s kids, don’t you think? Shaddam has a spy network, Jessica and Gurney have a spy network, the Bene Gesseritt absolutely know that Chani is pregnant, they tell Irulan she might have to abort any pregnancy in Dune Messiah. Aside from their multiple concerns over Chani’s wild bloodline, there are multiple political concerns surrounding Paul’s having an heir to his empire.
Why is security in nuDune a complete joke?
Security was a joke all throughout the novels. HO(w) come there was a seeker hunter in Paul’s bedroom? How did Duncan get a weapon into Leto II’s presence? Security have to be flawed for the story to move along.
Security is never perfect. However I’m insulted personally and intellectually when Dune was OCD about security and nuDune seems to consider security as an annoyance. Flawed to move the story along? Having a Harkonnnen assassin sealed in a false wall for a hopeful attempt on Paul’s life is one thing. The fact that Marie Fenring wasn’t immediately wrestled to the ground by Fremen guards when she crawled under the table is insulting (iirc, the guards actually chuckle and think its cute...). Fremen are insane about security, and they see Paul as their messiah. Yet Marie secrets a blade on Muad’dib’s table for later use. Don’t you think the Fremen and Atredies security teams in charge of Paul’s personal security would be a bit more careful than just relying on scanners? In Winds, Paul’s funeral urn is tampered with and Bronso of IX secrets a holo projector in it. Unidentified ornithopters fly over and spray clouds for the projection. Alia seems puzzled at their appearance. Wouldn’t her first reaction to their appearance be worry that they might be part of an attack? How did they get into that airspace? If you are going to require mental acrobatics ‘to build tension’ you at least need to answer obvious questions at how it’s so easy to breech Imperial security.
Why are all of the Female characters, even Royals and Regents forced to use public landing zones when male characters can take off from the Palace landing pad?
Security question: Why are high-risk targets walking through a public landing zone. Do we make our leaders use public transportation? To move the story along? The assassination attempt is all of 3 paragraphs and then ignored. “Oh well people are going to try to kill me…la te da.”
How are Paul and Bronso hiding on the Cargo lander for "several hours" and then on the Heighliner and gone before anyone notices?
To build drama in the story.
Having something happen simply to ‘build drama’ is never a good enough answer. I was half waiting for a magic hobo to show up and show the boys how to play harmonica and ride the rails. They could even have brought in a mean old conductor! Again, this is a security question. Sure the boys would be able to slip their escorts and run off and disappear, but the fact that it takes several hours before anyone notices is rather insulting.
Why does the Guild punish Paul and Bronso for attempting (and in Bronso's case succeeding) to see a Navigator with exile to the Jongleur troop?
They know who the boys are. If we go by Dune Canon, this kind of security breach would have cost House Atredies and House Vernius their guild travel privileges. Imagine your cousin stealing his dad’s car and taking it for a joyride and getting caught. Instead of a ticket, they revoke his license to drive and everyone else he is related to as well. Oh and apparently the Guild doesn’t wonder at how they got there. This is a serious breach of the guilds Security and heads will roll. The mutation of the Guild Navigators is their most closely guarded secret at this point in time.
Why do House Atredies and House Vernius (sic) take so long to find their heirs?
I forgot, its to build tension. The Guild representative shows up and demands payment for the time Paul and Bronso spent on their ship. Why would the Guild be totally unwilling to redirect runaway members of House Atredies and House Vernius (sic) home at the families expense as well? No, they’d rather be dicks. To build tension.
Why does Leto punish Paul only by sending him to his room to think about his actions.
Since we are in magic KJA tension land, lets not deal with the real life consequence of having the family trade rights revoked and House Atredies relegated to minor house status for such a major-fuck up.
Why does a planetary governor pardon and release Jongleur dancers when Paul knows they are assassins who tried to assassinate said governor? What, no answer? Seriously? That’s like the Secret Service letting James Wilkes Boothe go because he was friends with the Stage Manager. He was just a scapegoat anyway.
Why do the Bene Gesseritt not care at all that Young Paul has gone missing?
They were mad a Jessica, and punishing her. Besides, if Paul died young, they would be able to get Jessica to bear the girl she was ordered to in the first place.
This answer shows that you know or care very little about how and why the Dune universe works the way it did and why the original was such great sci-fi.
What about Paul do the Bene Gesseritt fear?
Why would he be of interest to them?
WHY WAS JESSICA SUPPOSED TO BEAR A DAUGHTER?
WHY WOULD THEY BE MAD THAT SHE DEFIED THEM?
WHAT ARE THE TWO MAJOR INTERESTS OF THE BENE GESSERIT AND THEIR WHOLE REASON FOR EXISTING?