Who did they build the nav machine for
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- SwordMaster
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Who did they build the nav machine for
What point in the timeline was the auto navigator machine created?
why did they build it >> ?
who did they build it for >> ?
why did they build it >> ?
who did they build it for >> ?
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It was GEoD. They built it... to see if they could. Because with the extreme scarcity of the spice Guild shipping was so expensive that they needed to find a way to replace Guild Navigators.A Thing of Eternity wrote:I feel really rusty on this, but wasn't it mentioned in CoD? Or maybe I'm just loosing it and it wasn't mentioned until GEoD...
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It was late in Leto's reign and yes, it was invented in the no-chamber where Hwi was born.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Interesting point about the true beginning. Safe to say thenby HoD navigators were fairly redundant then?Freakzilla wrote:It was late in Leto's reign and yes, it was invented in the no-chamber where Hwi was born.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
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No, flipping the switch in the Hieghliner cockpit was not all Guild Navigators were good for. The SG never fully trusted the INM either, even in ships with the INM they still had a navigator present. The Guild practiced business as usually, but a lot of their covert sales were lost to the no-ship.SwordMaster wrote:Interesting point about the true beginning. Safe to say thenby HoD navigators were fairly redundant then?Freakzilla wrote:It was late in Leto's reign and yes, it was invented in the no-chamber where Hwi was born.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
In the post-Tyrant Old Empire, if you wanted garanteed safe passage your only choice was the SG. If you had dirty work to do, no-ship.
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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I was thinking with the Siona gene spread their "other" powers were less valuble anc clearly those from the scattering did not need Navigators anymore. I think the SG lost its hold on space travel after this invention. There is little mention of them in CHoD that I can recall... What else were they useful for?Freakzilla wrote:No, flipping the switch in the Hieghliner cockpit was not all Guild Navigators were good for. The SG never fully trusted the INM either, even in ships with the INM they still had a navigator present. The Guild practiced business as usually, but a lot of their covert sales were lost to the no-ship.SwordMaster wrote:Interesting point about the true beginning. Safe to say thenby HoD navigators were fairly redundant then?Freakzilla wrote:It was late in Leto's reign and yes, it was invented in the no-chamber where Hwi was born.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
In the post-Tyrant Old Empire, if you wanted garanteed safe passage your only choice was the SG. If you had dirty work to do, no-ship.
I am a turd. Do not emulate me, or Omphalos shall mock you as well.
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Searching for Duncan Idaho, for one. Providing neutral meeting places (Waff and the Honored Matres), and of course secure banking, communications and shipping.SwordMaster wrote:I was thinking with the Siona gene spread their "other" powers were less valuble anc clearly those from the scattering did not need Navigators anymore. I think the SG lost its hold on space travel after this invention. There is little mention of them in CHoD that I can recall... What else were they useful for?Freakzilla wrote:No, flipping the switch in the Hieghliner cockpit was not all Guild Navigators were good for. The SG never fully trusted the INM either, even in ships with the INM they still had a navigator present. The Guild practiced business as usually, but a lot of their covert sales were lost to the no-ship.SwordMaster wrote:Interesting point about the true beginning. Safe to say thenby HoD navigators were fairly redundant then?Freakzilla wrote:It was late in Leto's reign and yes, it was invented in the no-chamber where Hwi was born.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
In the post-Tyrant Old Empire, if you wanted garanteed safe passage your only choice was the SG. If you had dirty work to do, no-ship.
They are still a powerfull faction in the Old Empire, they just lost their monopoly. The SG remains the "safe" transportation.
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
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But the HM used no-ships? Safe to say most of the people of the scattering were transport based in no-ships?Freakzilla wrote:Searching for Duncan Idaho, for one. Providing neutral meeting places (Waff and the Honored Matres), and of course secure banking, communications and shipping.SwordMaster wrote:I was thinking with the Siona gene spread their "other" powers were less valuble anc clearly those from the scattering did not need Navigators anymore. I think the SG lost its hold on space travel after this invention. There is little mention of them in CHoD that I can recall... What else were they useful for?Freakzilla wrote:No, flipping the switch in the Hieghliner cockpit was not all Guild Navigators were good for. The SG never fully trusted the INM either, even in ships with the INM they still had a navigator present. The Guild practiced business as usually, but a lot of their covert sales were lost to the no-ship.SwordMaster wrote:Interesting point about the true beginning. Safe to say thenby HoD navigators were fairly redundant then?Freakzilla wrote:It was late in Leto's reign and yes, it was invented in the no-chamber where Hwi was born.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
In the post-Tyrant Old Empire, if you wanted garanteed safe passage your only choice was the SG. If you had dirty work to do, no-ship.
They are still a powerfull faction in the Old Empire, they just lost their monopoly. The SG remains the "safe" transportation.
I am a turd. Do not emulate me, or Omphalos shall mock you as well.
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I was talking about the "Old Empire", the core from which the scattering spread, where all the books are set.SwordMaster wrote:But the HM used no-ships? Safe to say most of the people of the scattering were transport based in no-ships?Freakzilla wrote:Searching for Duncan Idaho, for one. Providing neutral meeting places (Waff and the Honored Matres), and of course secure banking, communications and shipping.SwordMaster wrote:I was thinking with the Siona gene spread their "other" powers were less valuble anc clearly those from the scattering did not need Navigators anymore. I think the SG lost its hold on space travel after this invention. There is little mention of them in CHoD that I can recall... What else were they useful for?Freakzilla wrote:No, flipping the switch in the Hieghliner cockpit was not all Guild Navigators were good for. The SG never fully trusted the INM either, even in ships with the INM they still had a navigator present. The Guild practiced business as usually, but a lot of their covert sales were lost to the no-ship.SwordMaster wrote:Interesting point about the true beginning. Safe to say thenby HoD navigators were fairly redundant then?Freakzilla wrote:It was late in Leto's reign and yes, it was invented in the no-chamber where Hwi was born.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
In the post-Tyrant Old Empire, if you wanted garanteed safe passage your only choice was the SG. If you had dirty work to do, no-ship.
They are still a powerfull faction in the Old Empire, they just lost their monopoly. The SG remains the "safe" transportation.
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
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I don't have anything to add to this discussion,Freakzilla wrote:I was talking about the "Old Empire", the core from which the scattering spread, where all the books are set.SwordMaster wrote:But the HM used no-ships? Safe to say most of the people of the scattering were transport based in no-ships?Freakzilla wrote:Searching for Duncan Idaho, for one. Providing neutral meeting places (Waff and the Honored Matres), and of course secure banking, communications and shipping.SwordMaster wrote:I was thinking with the Siona gene spread their "other" powers were less valuble anc clearly those from the scattering did not need Navigators anymore. I think the SG lost its hold on space travel after this invention. There is little mention of them in CHoD that I can recall... What else were they useful for?Freakzilla wrote:No, flipping the switch in the Hieghliner cockpit was not all Guild Navigators were good for. The SG never fully trusted the INM either, even in ships with the INM they still had a navigator present. The Guild practiced business as usually, but a lot of their covert sales were lost to the no-ship.SwordMaster wrote:Interesting point about the true beginning. Safe to say thenby HoD navigators were fairly redundant then?Freakzilla wrote:It was late in Leto's reign and yes, it was invented in the no-chamber where Hwi was born.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
In the post-Tyrant Old Empire, if you wanted garanteed safe passage your only choice was the SG. If you had dirty work to do, no-ship.
They are still a powerfull faction in the Old Empire, they just lost their monopoly. The SG remains the "safe" transportation.
I just wanted to contribute to the raising of another quote-ziggurat ...
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SandRider wrote:I don't have anything to add to this discussion,Freakzilla wrote:I was talking about the "Old Empire", the core from which the scattering spread, where all the books are set.SwordMaster wrote:But the HM used no-ships? Safe to say most of the people of the scattering were transport based in no-ships?Freakzilla wrote:Searching for Duncan Idaho, for one. Providing neutral meeting places (Waff and the Honored Matres), and of course secure banking, communications and shipping.SwordMaster wrote:I was thinking with the Siona gene spread their "other" powers were less valuble anc clearly those from the scattering did not need Navigators anymore. I think the SG lost its hold on space travel after this invention. There is little mention of them in CHoD that I can recall... What else were they useful for?Freakzilla wrote:No, flipping the switch in the Hieghliner cockpit was not all Guild Navigators were good for. The SG never fully trusted the INM either, even in ships with the INM they still had a navigator present. The Guild practiced business as usually, but a lot of their covert sales were lost to the no-ship.SwordMaster wrote:Interesting point about the true beginning. Safe to say thenby HoD navigators were fairly redundant then?Freakzilla wrote:It was late in Leto's reign and yes, it was invented in the no-chamber where Hwi was born.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
In the post-Tyrant Old Empire, if you wanted garanteed safe passage your only choice was the SG. If you had dirty work to do, no-ship.
They are still a powerfull faction in the Old Empire, they just lost their monopoly. The SG remains the "safe" transportation.
I just wanted to contribute to the raising of another quote-ziggurat ...
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Ok. The HM were fully No-Ship based though correct?Freakzilla wrote:I was talking about the "Old Empire", the core from which the scattering spread, where all the books are set.SwordMaster wrote:But the HM used no-ships? Safe to say most of the people of the scattering were transport based in no-ships?Freakzilla wrote:Searching for Duncan Idaho, for one. Providing neutral meeting places (Waff and the Honored Matres), and of course secure banking, communications and shipping.SwordMaster wrote:I was thinking with the Siona gene spread their "other" powers were less valuble anc clearly those from the scattering did not need Navigators anymore. I think the SG lost its hold on space travel after this invention. There is little mention of them in CHoD that I can recall... What else were they useful for?Freakzilla wrote:No, flipping the switch in the Hieghliner cockpit was not all Guild Navigators were good for. The SG never fully trusted the INM either, even in ships with the INM they still had a navigator present. The Guild practiced business as usually, but a lot of their covert sales were lost to the no-ship.SwordMaster wrote:Interesting point about the true beginning. Safe to say thenby HoD navigators were fairly redundant then?Freakzilla wrote:It was late in Leto's reign and yes, it was invented in the no-chamber where Hwi was born.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
In the post-Tyrant Old Empire, if you wanted garanteed safe passage your only choice was the SG. If you had dirty work to do, no-ship.
They are still a powerfull faction in the Old Empire, they just lost their monopoly. The SG remains the "safe" transportation.
I am a turd. Do not emulate me, or Omphalos shall mock you as well.
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Correct. The Guild did not expand with The Scattering AFAIK.SwordMaster wrote:Ok. The HM were fully No-Ship based though correct?Freakzilla wrote:I was talking about the "Old Empire", the core from which the scattering spread, where all the books are set.SwordMaster wrote:But the HM used no-ships? Safe to say most of the people of the scattering were transport based in no-ships?Freakzilla wrote:Searching for Duncan Idaho, for one. Providing neutral meeting places (Waff and the Honored Matres), and of course secure banking, communications and shipping.SwordMaster wrote:I was thinking with the Siona gene spread their "other" powers were less valuble anc clearly those from the scattering did not need Navigators anymore. I think the SG lost its hold on space travel after this invention. There is little mention of them in CHoD that I can recall... What else were they useful for?Freakzilla wrote:No, flipping the switch in the Hieghliner cockpit was not all Guild Navigators were good for. The SG never fully trusted the INM either, even in ships with the INM they still had a navigator present. The Guild practiced business as usually, but a lot of their covert sales were lost to the no-ship.SwordMaster wrote:Interesting point about the true beginning. Safe to say thenby HoD navigators were fairly redundant then?Freakzilla wrote:It was late in Leto's reign and yes, it was invented in the no-chamber where Hwi was born.
When RM Anteac lead the Fish Speaker attack on IX, the people and technology were scattered and this was the true begining of The Scattering.
In the post-Tyrant Old Empire, if you wanted garanteed safe passage your only choice was the SG. If you had dirty work to do, no-ship.
They are still a powerfull faction in the Old Empire, they just lost their monopoly. The SG remains the "safe" transportation.
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
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Re: Who did they build the nav machine for
A part of LetoII's legacy was to create people invisible to prescience.
Before Paul's time, the Navigators were prescient.
After the Tyrant their abilities are concentrated more upon fold~space than on social observation, primarily because they could not see most people. They could still see Idaho ghola though which is why he vanishes into the No~Ship on Chapterhouse.
Don't forget that the Guild also 'accidentally' (?) crash a Highliner into Chapterhouse.
Before Paul's time, the Navigators were prescient.
After the Tyrant their abilities are concentrated more upon fold~space than on social observation, primarily because they could not see most people. They could still see Idaho ghola though which is why he vanishes into the No~Ship on Chapterhouse.
Don't forget that the Guild also 'accidentally' (?) crash a Highliner into Chapterhouse.
That's how I wrote the novel, wanting you to participate with the best of your own imagination. I did not aim for the lowest common denominator and 'write down" to anyone. You and I have a compact and my responsibility is to entertain you as richly as possible, always giving you as much extra as I can. I assume you are intelligent and will enlist your own imagination. You'll see that when you read the Dune excerpt and the other stories in this collection.
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Re: Who did they build the nav machine for
True. It's one initial leg of the Golden Path.semuta wrote:A part of LetoII's legacy was to create people invisible to prescience.
True. And they were prescient after him as well.Before Paul's time, the Navigators were prescient.
Their essentially linear abilities were always more concentrated on navigation. And it took time for the Siona Gene to be transmitted through the population.After the Tyrant their abilities are concentrated more upon fold~space than on social observation, primarily because they could not see most people.
Which is why the BG kept him on the no-ship, true.They could still see Idaho ghola though which is why he vanishes into the No~Ship on Chapterhouse.
Mmm ... refresh my memory on this one?Don't forget that the Guild also 'accidentally' (?) crash a Highliner into Chapterhouse.
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Re: Who did they build the nav machine for
I think that the Ixians were some of the most driven by Leto's golden path.
Remember, part of what he wanted to do was challenge people to think in new and creative ways, always looking outwards.
It was precisely the break from tradition the golden path needed. Leto caused it by decimating spice supply.
I think it was built primarily FOR the ixians themselves. Navigators colluded. But if i remember rightly there were several technologies the ixians were trying to develop (borrowing tleilaxu techniques for hwi and malky, for one) and that they were all somehow related.... Prescience bestows immunity to prescience, and at/around the same time, the ixians develop both artificial prescience... and artificial immunity to prescience chambers? Coincidence?!?
Had the ixians managed to develop these two AND leto had put off dying for a few more years, then there would have been a SERIOUS shift of power. Leto's rule was maintained in part by having the guild submissive. Without any need for spice one the technology had developed, the ixians could transport things without running it by leto/the guild first.
Combine this with the immunity to prescience, it would have meant things could now exist in the universe beyond the god emperors reach.... forgetting of course that he KNEW about the hwi Chamber anyway, and didnt interfere because that was kind of the point..... he WANTED technologies which removed the prescient grasp on humanity.
So yeah, i think they built it for themselves. Partly as a test of the god emperors real powers, partly as an attempt to topple him, and partly to gain power amongst third parties, who would pay dearly to be beyond the GE's vision (the BG? Tleilaxu? etc)
Remember, part of what he wanted to do was challenge people to think in new and creative ways, always looking outwards.
It was precisely the break from tradition the golden path needed. Leto caused it by decimating spice supply.
I think it was built primarily FOR the ixians themselves. Navigators colluded. But if i remember rightly there were several technologies the ixians were trying to develop (borrowing tleilaxu techniques for hwi and malky, for one) and that they were all somehow related.... Prescience bestows immunity to prescience, and at/around the same time, the ixians develop both artificial prescience... and artificial immunity to prescience chambers? Coincidence?!?
Had the ixians managed to develop these two AND leto had put off dying for a few more years, then there would have been a SERIOUS shift of power. Leto's rule was maintained in part by having the guild submissive. Without any need for spice one the technology had developed, the ixians could transport things without running it by leto/the guild first.
Combine this with the immunity to prescience, it would have meant things could now exist in the universe beyond the god emperors reach.... forgetting of course that he KNEW about the hwi Chamber anyway, and didnt interfere because that was kind of the point..... he WANTED technologies which removed the prescient grasp on humanity.
So yeah, i think they built it for themselves. Partly as a test of the god emperors real powers, partly as an attempt to topple him, and partly to gain power amongst third parties, who would pay dearly to be beyond the GE's vision (the BG? Tleilaxu? etc)
The HLP hasnt released Frank's notes yet, Brian hasn't got the handwriting quite right!
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Re: Who did they build the nav machine for
Isn't that from KJA's books? You sure about Chapterhouse?Quote:
Don't forget that the Guild also 'accidentally' (?) crash a Highliner into Chapterhouse.
Mmm ... refresh my memory on this one?
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Re: Who did they build the nav machine for
NEVER did a heighliner crash in one of FH's books.Rakis wrote:Isn't that from KJA's books? You sure about Chapterhouse?Quote:
Don't forget that the Guild also 'accidentally' (?) crash a Highliner into Chapterhouse.
Mmm ... refresh my memory on this one?
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Re: Who did they build the nav machine for
I thought soFreakzilla wrote:NEVER did a heighliner crash in one of FH's books.Rakis wrote:Isn't that from KJA's books? You sure about Chapterhouse?Quote:
Don't forget that the Guild also 'accidentally' (?) crash a Highliner into Chapterhouse.
Mmm ... refresh my memory on this one?
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Re: Who did they build the nav machine for
I think that the DE has legends of lost heighliners.
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Re: Who did they build the nav machine for
Thanks for confirming that, Freak.
And Chapterhouse Planet was NOT Wallach IX. Sheesh.![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon/rolleyes.gif)
And Chapterhouse Planet was NOT Wallach IX. Sheesh.
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Re: Who did they build the nav machine for
I think Wallach IX was destroyed by Honord Matres in either HoD or CH:D. Either Tarazza or Odrade lists the BG planets they've lost...
The Guild's safety record was one of it's selling points, heighliners didn't crash.
The Guild's safety record was one of it's selling points, heighliners didn't crash.
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Re: Who did they build the nav machine for
House Corrino, page 323 of the US PB edition.
I Googled it. Have no recollection of the actual plot of this book.
HBJ
I Googled it. Have no recollection of the actual plot of this book.
HBJ
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Re: Who did they build the nav machine for
It's hard to crash if you always remain beyond the effective gravity well of a planet.Freakzilla wrote:I think Wallach IX was destroyed by Honord Matres in either HoD or CH:D. Either Tarazza or Odrade lists the BG planets they've lost...
The Guild's safety record was one of it's selling points, heighliners didn't crash.
Even more so if you have a prescient driver to watch for meteors etc.
The HLP hasnt released Frank's notes yet, Brian hasn't got the handwriting quite right!