Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

Thanks Baraka, what is so great in terms of Canadians and our form of discussion is the civility of the debate and the intelligent discussion without becoming belligerent or abusive. We all are entitled to our opinion and our vote, and by the same token we are open to hearing new ideas or changing our perspective towards a new party, or platform.

But if I can just say that Justin and I have met on a few occasions and we stay in touch occasionally via email although he is very busy these days, I have clearly expressed to Justin that I will be involved in his leadership nomination and campaign for Prime Minister. I would like to share more of my experience knowing Justin. I can say for sure, that he is not his father and will not emulate his father, he is his own man.

Here is a quick photo of Justin and I after he spoke at a conference I was involved in organizing for "engaging youth within the community"



Not my best picture, but Justin as usual always looks good. We speak less about Politics and more about our sons who are around the same age.

Sacha also has a completely different politics then Justin. Both highly intelligent and informed, just share a difference political perspective.

Justin is by no means ready to run for Prime Minister and has no set plan to do so. He is very much focused strictly on being a strong MP for his riding and learning the inner workings of parliament.

One of his difficulties is that people like me; want to push him towards the leadership too early on. The media has done this as well to some extent, and he has expressed his frustration with the "Messiah Lore" that seems to follow him when speaking with those who are highly loyal to his father's legacy. He really does not like that at all and loathes the idea of it.

He wants to be judged by his own work and his own ability. Not his father's. This is a main factor to his hesitation to become involved in politics in the first place. I do not want to speak for him, so this is my sharing of a piece of his public speech. It is extremely refreshing to see a man who is so humble and aware of his situation in the hearts and minds of Canadians. He is equally aware of those who already hate him, and dislike him, because of his father. He hopes to show both of these groups that he is not his father and have all Canadians look at his as an individual, not an extension of his father.

He ran in one of the more difficult ridings in all of Quebec, he was ridiculed for his english/french approach, often saying 1 sentence in English and the next in French. He went up vs. a difficult Bloc incumbent that was of savvy political intellect, but won based not on his name that carried very little weight in this particular riding where many Francophone dislike his father, and many new immigrants do not even know who is father is.

Suffice to say he did not take the easy road and worked very hard to win the vote of his constituency. I am confident he will keep his seat for many years to come.

Baraka, do you in any way fear the popularity of Justin and worry about his ability to build a Liberal majority in the future?

Any other comments or questions welcome.

I didn't vote in this "what are you poll", I have no party allegiances in particular. Voted NDP last time just to send a message to the Conservatives, voted Liberal the time before that.

I'm a liberal person when it comes to morality (not really sure what that means though, I believe in strong morals and sticking to them strictly, but my values have VALUE, and are based on reality rather than some preconceived arbitrary version of "right"), and pretty much in the middle of the economic spectrum leaning much more towards capitalism than socialism. I don't have a party for my beliefs, it angers me to no end that if I want "tough on crime" I have to vote for the party who's caveman morality shuts down the safe injection site downtown. I'm all for tough on crime, I actually would go miles farther than the Cs want to go, but the directions they go in make no sense to me sometimes. If I want to vote for some capitalist shifts in certain areas, I have to vote against human rights for homosexuals and women, what a fantastic combination that is. Tough decisions to make, vote for my wallet, or for my morals?

And of course it's never that cut and dry.


There Swordmaster, that's roughly my politics. As you can also maybe see from my writing, I progressivly get riled up and then calm myself back down.

You down with N.D.P?

Yeah, you know ME!



Layton is my man. It's too bad that by the time NDP's could ever be eligible to take office, Jack will be long retired. Hopefully they'll continue to elect intelligent, straight-talking, legal-pot-advocating leaders! During the debates in October, layton was the only one who doesn't give me the impression of a sleaze-bag or a mental-patient. May was pretty down to earth, but she doesn't count. Jack was the only one who made any sense at all.

I can appreciate the NDP as a further left alternative to the Liberals; obviously they have no hope of switching a conservative to their cause where as the Liberals do on a number of fronts. That being said, the further the liberals go left the closer they are to the NDP and fringe movement known as the Green Party. As a red, I want more party platforms, and more representation however currently its at the cost of loosing a liberal vote...

All this considered, I was sad to see the Alliance party absorbed into the Tory fold. Because of course they were splitting conservative votes in the same way the NDP have split many liberals or outright converted them.

Jack is a really great person, if you run into him on the TTC you can come right up to him and speak with him, he will shake your hand and look you in the eye. He does hold a charisma and his wit in clever and at times, he is quite funny. He dominated the debate this year because of his snappy one liners, but has yet to present a clear and realistic platform.

A Thing of Eternity - Your politics sound very close to mine. And your correct we do not have a party to represent our politically mixed set of values. And so your left with that difficult choice of what is the lesser of two evils? I wonder if a party with a left leaning set of values, but conservative on crime and fiscal responsibility.

One of the extreme examples of a rift between the conservative part and all the other platforms, (other then bloc because a provincial party in federal politics is a sad joke on the Canadian nation) would be the choice of sending our military to Iraq. Not that our small force would have made a huge difference in the conflict or fallout but it was a choice that most Canadian's aged with heavily and extended Chretien's popularity.

Drunken Idaho wrote:You down with N.D.P?

Yeah, you know ME!



Layton is my man. It's too bad that by the time NDP's could ever be eligible to take office, Jack will be long retired. Hopefully they'll continue to elect intelligent, straight-talking, legal-pot-advocating leaders! During the debates in October, layton was the only one who doesn't give me the impression of a sleaze-bag or a mental-patient. May was pretty down to earth, but she doesn't count. Jack was the only one who made any sense at all.

Jack seems like he's probably a good guy, and I like a lot about his party, but I think they would be wise to replace him. He pretty much spends his time insulting the other party members, and comes off as very immature in my opinion. I really liked him until I watched the debate this time around, his behaviour/performance seriously almost made me reconsider my NDP vote.

SwordMaster wrote:
All this considered, I was sad to see the Alliance party absorbed into the Tory fold. Because of course they were splitting conservative votes in the same way the NDP have split many liberals or outright converted them.

Ha, never thought of it that way. I was just a bit scared of them and glad to see them get mellowed out... didn't consider the effect on reuniting the conservative vote.

A Thing of Eternity - Your politics sound very close to mine. And your correct we do not have a party to represent our politically mixed set of values. And so your left with that difficult choice of what is the lesser of two evils? I wonder if a party with a left leaning set of values, but conservative on crime and fiscal responsibility.

That would make my day, and I see no reason why it isn't possible. Actually, I think adding liberal values to conservative fiscal policy would actually improve the economy more than conservative values with concervative fiscal policy.

As far as crime goes it gets complicated though. I think we should be BY FAR lessoning the penalties for, if not legalizing entirely, some aspects of the drug and sex industries. This is extremely anti-conservative. BUT, I think we should put penalties through the roof for violent crimes, especially those involving firearms and sex offenses. So does that make me conservative or liberal when it comes to crime?

Baraka Bryan wrote:

SwordMaster wrote: One of the extreme examples of a rift between the conservative part and all the other platforms, (other then bloc because a provincial party in federal politics is a sad joke on the Canadian nation) would be the choice of sending our military to Iraq. Not that our small force would have made a huge difference in the conflict or fallout but it was a choice that most Canadian's aged with heavily and extended Chretien's popularity.

the bloq is just a waste of breath. separatism is dead.

as for the iraq thing being so far off... Harper said that he would support it because at that time he really was a bit of a Bush lapdog. He's matured since then and think's differently now that he has power. Ignatieff was actually a huge proponent of the war back at the same time that Harper has, (while living in the states rather than being in the country he now wants to lead), and now he's leading your party... how is that any different?

I am not a fan of Iggy, he is not even Candian, to me he is an American lite... But you will love this one Baraka, I supported Bob Rae as the next Liberal Leader so chew on that peice of grizzle! But in all honesty, Iggy is not going to unite the party or the nation... He is a case of this is all we have right now, clearly as it was shown during the most recent Liberal convention, a complete lack of solid leadership at the top of the party. A lot of potentail for the future but nothing right now. So Harper has a good chance to convince the Nation that he can b e trusted with a Majority Govt. If he cant pull that off now, while the Libs are hurting, then he cant pull it off ever.

I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT SAY THAT!

LOLz. My father worked with Rae during those years. I know many of the ideas did not set off a political legacy, but I would love to discuss the fine points of his time in Ontario, because if nothing else can you admit that he tried a lot of new ideas that were mabye too progresive but did do some highly positive things for Ontario on two major fronts. Education and Jobs created.

Its ok, you can tell me what you really think of Mr. Rae's stint as P

In all honesty you are right about the current shift towards the Tory platform, it has a real chance over the next few years to become the power house that was the liberals of the past.

Baraka Bryan wrote:

SwordMaster wrote:I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT SAY THAT!

LOLz. My father worked with Rae during those years. I know many of the ideas did not set off a political legacy, but I would love to discuss the fine points of his time in Ontario, because if nothing else can you admit that he tried a lot of new ideas that were mabye too progresive but did do some highly positive things for Ontario on two major fronts. Education and Jobs created.

Its ok, you can tell me what you really think of Mr. Rae's stint as P

In all honesty you are right about the current shift towards the Tory platform, it has a real chance over the next few years to become the power house that was the liberals of the past.

to be honest, I was quite young during Rae Days, but some of the things I've read on it (the skydome debacle for example) are pretty scathing.

i think the shift is a natural result of the aging population. eventually there will be another big shift to the left as a younger generation becomes politically engaged. it seems to be a natural pattern.

A good observation.

How do we feel about the new tuition hikes in Ontario?

Now I actually have to rob a bank to send my son to University

You must be single. Oh just an extra $500

Good luck on the schoolerships!