Those ALIEN Roads

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 17 Dec 2008 01:00

SandChigger wrote:And your little dog 'Noldo, too.

Okay, that's pure comedy gold right there!

chanilover · Post by **chanilover** » 17 Dec 2008 04:19

SandRider wrote:Merritt's on Over There right now - let's see what he does. He may have used up all his energy with this:
Over There » For Lovers of Classic Dune Only » Chapter House Dune finale // all today
murmur wrote:Ok, so I've finished reading through the whole Dune sage for the 3rd time, last time I did it was about 6-7 years ago.

But this time I actually understood the ending with Marty and Daniel (the Face Dancers).

The unkown threat from the Scattering was blatantly supposed to be rogue face dancers (why else would they name them "the enemy of many faces".

I haven't read Hunters or Sandworms of Dune, but I think i'm a bit put off reading them now that I know they have made the unknown threat remnants of the machines from the Prelude to Dune Butlerian Jihad...

If this is the case, i'm really not going to read them.. I must say, I wasn't a big fan of Butlerian Jihad anyway, I think they took it too far making the enemy actual killing cyborgs and robots, but still... thats another thread for another day.

Just sharing my thoughts! I thought Chapter House Dune ended the series perfectly, IMO there is no need for a Dune 7, it ends fantastic
Merritt wrote:Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It might interest you to know, too, that there are face dancer enemies in Hunters and Sandworms. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
murmur wrote:Hehe, so basically what you're saying is, I should read them, because I'm rushing to conclusions?
Merritt wrote:No. You should probably do whatever you think is right for you. Just wanted you to be aware that there are elements that many anti-fans left out of their "toastings" of the sequels.
Is this a new tactic ?
Is he tired today ?
I'm having a mixed reaction to "anti-fan".

"Anti-fan" is a bit lame. Perhaps the HLP have now decided who constitutes a true fan and who an anti-fan.

For some reason I thought of that scene in Dune Messiah where Paul is discussing all the religious followers slaughtered during the jihad.

"But they were anti-fans, Sire"

"No, Still, they were fans."

Post by **Freakzilla** » 17 Dec 2008 11:36

SandChigger wrote:Please tell katee84 to ignore arnoldo. He's just trying to derail the thread.

Time is passing and STILL NO RESPONSE FROM BYRON.

You'd think with all the money the HLP must be raking in from the books and movie deal, that they could at least fork out enough to buy Byron a pair. No?

Tleilaxu balls?

Tleszer · Post by **Tleszer** » 17 Dec 2008 12:31

Freakzilla wrote:
SandChigger wrote:Please tell katee84 to ignore arnoldo. He's just trying to derail the thread.

Time is passing and STILL NO RESPONSE FROM BYRON.

You'd think with all the money the HLP must be raking in from the books and movie deal, that they could at least fork out enough to buy Byron a pair. No?
Tleilaxu balls?

And maybe some metal eyes to go along with those balls?

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 17 Dec 2008 12:39

Over There » All Things Dune » True Aliens in Dune // today
Merritt wrote:I think given enough time and with foldspace technology, Frank believed it inevitable we'd meet aliens of some kind. He knew there were billions and billions of stars and that to have humanity be the only sentient creatures out there is such a waste of space.

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 17 Dec 2008 12:45

A waste of space? What does that mean?

Post by **Omphalos** » 17 Dec 2008 12:54

GamePlayer wrote:A waste of space? What does that mean?

God likes to be efficient? Why else would He have given us Ikea?

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 17 Dec 2008 12:57

All the universe is a kitchen

Lisan Al-Gaib · Post by **Lisan Al-Gaib** » 17 Dec 2008 12:59

Baraka Bryan wrote:
SandRider wrote:
Over There » All Things Dune » True Aliens in Dune // today
Merritt wrote:I think given enough time and with foldspace technology, Frank believed it inevitable we'd meet aliens of some kind. He knew there were billions and billions of stars and that to have humanity be the only sentient creatures out there is such a waste of space.

wow... i don't know if words can describe the stupidity

Someone could tell Byron that there are Scientist who believes life in the universe are not so commom as Star Wars picture for us.

Byron, go read, man.

Tleszer · Post by **Tleszer** » 17 Dec 2008 13:55

I do have some belief that there could be aliens it stems more from the idea that it would be arrogant for humans to think that "we are alone;" if humans can exist, why not other sentient life? That's more to do with trying to have an open mind rather than outright belief, however.

In the case of Dune, though, clearly sentient alien life would have been found by the time the first novel takes place considering how far in the future it takes place. Since there aren't any aliens makes it obvious that FH wasn't intending to include them. He dealt with mankind and the consequences of mankind's actions; to include an "outside intelligence" would undermine the philosophies FH was crafting in these novels.

Lisan Al-Gaib · Post by **Lisan Al-Gaib** » 17 Dec 2008 14:06

Tleszer wrote:I do have some belief that there could be aliens it stems more from the idea that it would be arrogant for humans to think that "we are alone;" if humans can exist, why not other sentient life? That's more to do with trying to have an open mind rather than outright belief, however.

What I am saying is not related with believes or the way aliens or some humans think. What I say is based in data. The information that we have from our galaxy have a uncertainty that when we put then on equations to calculate the most probable number of alien civilizations here the number given goes from aprox. zero to about 200.

The galatic information necessary to these equations (Drake and others) are:
* Stellar Metalicity
* % Stars with habitable planets
* % Stable Stars
* % Life shows up
and many other things.

Seraphan · Post by **Seraphan** » 17 Dec 2008 14:50

Merritt wrote:I think given enough time and with foldspace technology, Frank believed it inevitable we'd meet aliens of some kind. He knew there were billions and billions of stars and that to have humanity be the only sentient creatures out there is such a waste of space.

Talk about a capital What the Fuck?! Go get yourself a brain you cynical passive-aggressive PR bitch!

TheDukester · Post by **TheDukester** » 17 Dec 2008 15:07

Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:Byron, go read, man.

And Byron? ... shut the fuck up.

Hunchback Jack · Post by **Hunchback Jack** » 17 Dec 2008 15:27

Merritt wrote:I think given enough time and with foldspace technology, Frank believed it inevitable we'd meet aliens of some kind. He knew there were billions and billions of stars and that to have humanity be the only sentient creatures out there is such a waste of space.

Okay, he's just making shit up now.

Frank may have believed that aliens probably exist in the real universe based on these arguments, but there's no evidence in the text that he thought they existed in Dune.

(And the "alien" mention in GEoD is obviously poetic, not literal. For the record. Just look at the language Leto uses in his speech around it, fer fooks' sake.)

HBJ

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 17 Dec 2008 15:58

"I think" here = "I believe" or "I want to believe".

[cue X-Files theme, roll credits with Kevin's name]

He's so full of shit.

Tleilax Master B · Post by **Tleilax Master B** » 17 Dec 2008 17:55

Freakzilla wrote:
SandChigger wrote:Please tell katee84 to ignore arnoldo. He's just trying to derail the thread.

Time is passing and STILL NO RESPONSE FROM BYRON.

You'd think with all the money the HLP must be raking in from the books and movie deal, that they could at least fork out enough to buy Byron a pair. No?
Tleilaxu balls?

I can arrange that

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 17 Dec 2008 19:56

Over There » For Lovers of both the Classic Dune AND the Prequels » God Emperor of Dune (Let's Review)
Arnie wrote:Blah blah blah blah. Irrelevent, off-topic, blah.

murmur wrote:
Arnaldo wrote: The following quote from GEoD:

"I point out to you, Marcus Claire Luyseyal, a lesson from past over-machined societies which you appear not to have learned. The devices themselves condition the users to employ each other the way they employ machines.”

A great quote, thank you for sharing.

My interpretation of that quote was always that humans over-processed everything and everyone, for instance, people/workers were over-managed and became stats and numbers, however you do raise a good point.

I guess Dune is like poetry and writing... you make your own interpretations
katee84 wrote:
murmur wrote:I guess Dune is like poetry and writing... you make your own interpretations
Except that words mean things.
This is the original quote (supposedly) under discussion:

in God-Emperor of Dune, Frank Herbert wrote: “Yes, Lord.” Moneo was abashed, yet still curious. And he knew that the God Emperor sometimes waxed loquacious after the death of a Duncan.
“You must have seen many rebellions, Lord.”

Involuntarily, Leto’s thoughts sank into the memories aroused by these words.

“Ahhh, Moneo,” he muttered. “My travels in the ancestral mazes have memorized uncounted places and events which I never desire to see repeated.”

“I can imagine your inward travels, Lord.”

“No, you cannot. I have seen peoples and planets in such numbers that they lose meaning even in imagination. Ohhh, the landscapes I have passed. The calligraphy of alien roads glimpsed from space and imprinted upon my innermost sight. The eroded sculpture of canyons and cliffs and galaxies has imprinted upon me the certain knowledge that I am a mote.”

“Not you, Lord. Certainly not you.”

“Less than a mote! I have seen people and their fruitless societies in such repetitive posturings that their nonsense fills me with boredom, do you hear?”
This is boardadmin's post, which I am trying to discuss :

boardadmin wrote:
Lots of fan speculation on that one. Some say it was "alien" to Leto II only, not
specifically an alien society (i.e., the machine society). Others say since Leto II was heavily prescient, not much could be hidden from him, so there is a high probability that this could be a machine city similar to what Brian and Kevin have written about.
This is my refutation of that post :

katee84 wrote:Others say since Leto II was heavily prescient ....
From the text, it is clear that Leto was speaking from Other Memory; the Past then, and not the Future.

a high probability that this could be a machine city similar to what Brian and Kevin have written about...
How could a "machine city", if it is supposed to exist, be considered by Leto to be "alien" ? Leto's Other Memory extended well before the Butlerian Jihad; therefore (allowing for a "machine empire") Leto would have recongized these "cities", past or future, and not labelled them "alien".

The simplest and most obvious interpretation of "calligraphy of alien roads glimpsed from space" is foreign, exotic, unexplored or untravelled space, seen in the far distance and unreachable by Leto's ancestors.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 17 Dec 2008 20:09

You're going to have as much luck as Lundse did trying to engage 'Noldo in an intelligent discussion.

Let's face it: Byron Merritt has zero personal integrity. He lacks the character to admit he fucked up and misread the original passage. He's a coward and, as Mr Teg loves to call him, a pussy.

Fuck 'im. I'm done with this one.

(Go see Belle Moulé's new thread, "Evidence of Earth's destruction in FH Dune", for examples of what Byron considers "nicely formulated ideas." Moron.)

Hunchback Jack · Post by **Hunchback Jack** » 17 Dec 2008 20:21

SandChigger wrote:Let's face it: Byron Merritt has zero personal integrity. He lacks the character to admit he fucked up and misread the original passage. He's a coward and, as Mr Teg loves to call him, a pussy.

Hear, hear. Any reasonable person would take a second look at the whole quote and say, "You know, you're right; he's talking about Other Memory. What I said doesn't hold up."

Just a sentence or two. In most forums, such a concession isn't even a loss of face.

HBJ

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 17 Dec 2008 20:27

Riiiight ! But in THAT forum, such a concession undermines a whole
stack of retconned bullshit books.

Hunchback Jack · Post by **Hunchback Jack** » 17 Dec 2008 20:29

Oh, right. What was I thinking?

HBJ

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 17 Dec 2008 21:03

That the Dunenovels Discussion Forum was for regular fans to discuss the pros and cons of some science fiction books, instead of a Font for Corporate Propaganda ...

Tleszer · Post by **Tleszer** » 17 Dec 2008 21:46

I used to think that but my eyes have been opened.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 17 Dec 2008 22:52

I've been thinking ... and maybe Byron can't retract it ... not because he doesn't have the balls (I'll return to this point below) ... but because it wasn't really his idea to post the OP in that thread in the first place.

What if it's something he was told to post by his "superior" (you know, the one above him who sits on his face and absorbs him up into his bumcrack) and he would incur that person's wrath if he backed down and retracted it now?

Just throwing it out there as another possibility. That kind of shallow, focus-on-one-paragraph-or-word-only reading is also characteristic of Kevin, after all.

But even if it is something like that, Byron still isn't his own man, standing up for himself, and is therefore just whipped pussy.

Lisan Al-Gaib · Post by **Lisan Al-Gaib** » 17 Dec 2008 23:12

SandChigger wrote:I've been thinking ... and maybe Byron can't retract it ... not because he doesn't have the balls (I'll return to this point below) ... but because it wasn't really his idea to post the OP in that thread in the first place.

What if it's something he was told to post by his "superior" (you know, the one above him who sits on his face and absorbs him up into his bumcrack) and he would incur that person's wrath if he backed down and retracted it now?

Just throwing it out there as another possibility. That kind of shallow, focus-on-one-paragraph-or-word-only reading is also characteristic of Kevin, after all.

But even if it is something like that, Byron still isn't his own man, standing up for himself, and is therefore just whipped pussy.

Oh, that is too conspiracy for me.

I believe he answered the question by himself. I think he only worship his uncle, and now, his friend Kevin too much.