DUNE DISCUSSION FORUM FOR ORTHODOX HERBERTARIANS
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That's what they say, but I find it highly un-believable. Even if there were notes, it seems like they've been disregarded damned near completely.mulletsavant wrote:Also, I heard the new writers claim that the new books are partially based upon some of Frank's notes? false?
Thanks for the info! I am aware of the AG/AD timeframe now. My sig is kind of a joke based on my first thread at Dune Novels, and catching some hell over here for not knowing my timelines yet.Baraka Bryan wrote:in some other thread the notes stories are discussed. in various interviews depending on the context of the question, the the hack and bribri have given various stories about how and where notes/outlines were found, the volume of those notes (from 2 pages to hundreds) the level of detail in the notes etc...mulletsavant wrote:Also, I heard the new writers claim that the new books are partially based upon some of Frank's notes? false?
I don't think anyone doubts that there were notes made and left behind by FH as all authors make rough notes for their stories, (except those who dictate perfect prose straight from the sphincter), but these douchebags have used the supposed notes to justify everything in their writing. whatever was in the notes, they twisted them to justify writing prequel trilogies that tie in to their version of Dune 7.
even if FH jotted down "tranny pedophile robot" somewhere on a piece of paper doesn't mean he meant it to be a part of the story.
edit to add response to your sig: A.G is "after guild." Dune years count from the formation of the guild, which is, if i remember correctly, about 13,000 years AD?
(damn me striaght to hell!!)Apart from the terrible writing (which includes the over use of adverbs and adjectives), I mostly hate the inconsistencies and the Hack's lame attempts to justify them by saying the original Dune books are "in-universe" texts. Doing so is the Hack's way of justifying his many inconsistencies and mistakes that are a result of his and The Other Guy's not having closely read the original six books.mulletsavant wrote:...as to why the new books by Brian Herbert are blasphemy??
I have zero opinion on the subject as I'm still reading the first half of the orginal book by Frank. Just curious as to why there is such a strong backlash?
Flame away!!!
So ... many ... reasons.mulletsavant wrote:...as to why the new books by Brian Herbert are blasphemy??
Wow!!! I must say that is pretty ball-sy!!!!!!! Especially considering the original Dune is considered by many THE definitive sci-fi masterpiece....Baraka Bryan wrote:over the course of the past decade, many Dune fans, probably primarily those on this site, have been complaining online and through other media about the contradictions in the nu-dune books. These complaints have gone either unanswered, or have been told it's in the notes, or asked why we're complaining when obviously the authors know best, (actually that's just another non-answer).mulletsavant wrote:"in-universe" texts??? please explain....
so in response to those complaints, kevvie has attempted to use the latest book to justify those inconsistencies and supposedly silence the critics. in Paul of Dune, (i'm not ashamed of spoiling things in this book because it shouldn't be written/read to begin with) they tell about a conversation between irulan and paul where paul tells her to write falsehoods in her stories of his life and that the readers will believe it if she writes it. they specifically talk about some of the more blatant contradictions that readers have pointed out. The way they've referenced those stories, Dune is now supposedly one of these in-universe writings by Irulan, and so subject to scrutiny as to its truthfulness. readers are supposed to take these new interquels as the definitive truth, while taking everything Frank Herbert wrote with a grain of salt.
that is the greatest blasphemy of all.
Seraphan wrote:Like it was previously said, even if such notes existed the authors still failed to interpret them, this certainty is given through the fact of how they ignored/reversed Frank Herbert's ideas i.e. the scattering (of mankind's problem of depending on a specific natural resourse, giving away their decision making to charismatic leaders, along with other ideas). It is this total incomprehension of everything that Frank wrote and said that sets these authors as nothing but a pair of liars set on making money from exploring the stupidity of gullible people.dunaddict wrote: for those of you that did NOT read the prequels:
- would you consider reading the prequels if there's proof the notes are real and used in the preqs?
It is, in my view, a crime against literacy and art commited by a hack writer that is incapable of even understanding, or recognizing, any thematical content in the Frankenstein novel by Mary Shelley.
And still he continues to say that what he "does" is Dune while accusing fans of Frank of not understanding his novels. His arrogance and blatant cynicism are the manifestation of his wounded ego that searches to be recognized as some sort of artist. Fat chance
The new Dune movie only came about because Kevin and the other guy were trying to sell their prequels as a movie series. Dune is a franchise - not on the scale of star wars, but they think it could (and should) be.mulletsavant wrote:So what do you think is the main motivation of Brian and the other guy?? (forgot his name) is it strictly $$$$ ? or to create a Star Wars type of franchise? trying for a mainstream feel for a possible movie/TV deal?
That prase is pure magic.GamePlayer wrote:"I could give you reasons. Their incompetence. Their ignorance. It's forbidden to write novels so weak, so helpless, that cannot survive on their own."
I thought that place died. I can't believe that prick even bothers anymore. He's too stupid to realize how stupid he is.SandRider wrote:I just used up all the energy I'll have today roasting Fantomas over at House Atreides, so I'll be brief. First off, I don't think Brian had much of a hand in the new books except poor editing and signing HLP checks. Second, read this board. Pages and Pages of indictments. But maybe someone can drop by here and leave a succint recap. I wouldn't know quite where to begin, and anyway, I'm shutting down now and hitting the morphine drip button again.
Ahhhhhh.
House Atreides is the first Dune forum I ever posted at. Then I moved to DN, and thusly to this place. I hate that place's stupid logo. What is it, from a game or some shit? Totally NOT the Atreides hawk.Nekhrun wrote:I thought that place died. I can't believe that prick even bothers anymore. He's too stupid to realize how stupid he is.SandRider wrote:I just used up all the energy I'll have today roasting Fantomas over at House Atreides, so I'll be brief. First off, I don't think Brian had much of a hand in the new books except poor editing and signing HLP checks. Second, read this board. Pages and Pages of indictments. But maybe someone can drop by here and leave a succint recap. I wouldn't know quite where to begin, and anyway, I'm shutting down now and hitting the morphine drip button again.
Ahhhhhh.
Where do you get that idea? I think it's faaaaar more likely that movie producers have a list of things that can be re-adapted, and Dune was simply next. Besides, didn't the mini-series guys own the film-rights?DuneFishUK wrote:The new Dune movie only came about because Kevin and the other guy were trying to sell their prequels as a movie series. Dune is a franchise - not on the scale of star wars, but they think it could (and should) be.
Hollywood doesnt have the testicles for it. Blade Runner being the great movie that it is was already hard enough for Ridley Scott to manage as he wanted it to be, the studio pushed that little happy ending that didnt fit the movie at all. Imagine what they'll do with GoED.Drunken Idaho wrote:But I pray every night for a well-done God Emperor film...
It's not too much but simply being consistent with the originals and publishing the notes (if they exist) as an appendix would've earned them some merit and respect. If they were capable of writting an interesting, creative extension/developments of the storylines then that would've have been perfect, or near perfect.SandChigger wrote:I seriously can't believe how many of you say that bad writing would have been acceptable if it weren't for the inconsistencies.
I just don't get that at all.
Interesting, creative extensions/developments of the storylines, consistent with what Frank wrote, expressed in well crafted language. Why is it too much to ask for all of that?
Hopefully KJA and the other guy will continue providing the ammunition we need to fire off more of theseSeraphan wrote:That prase is pure magic.GamePlayer wrote:"I could give you reasons. Their incompetence. Their ignorance. It's forbidden to write novels so weak, so helpless, that cannot survive on their own."
They shall, like a lamb sucking the milk of his mother's tits for sustenance, they shall.GamePlayer wrote:Hopefully KJA and the other guy will continue providing the ammunition we need to fire off more of theseSeraphan wrote:That prase is pure magic.GamePlayer wrote:"I could give you reasons. Their incompetence. Their ignorance. It's forbidden to write novels so weak, so helpless, that cannot survive on their own."
Amen. I have stayed out of this thread so far because there is no good answer to any of these questions. And that is not because there arent good reasons; its because there are too many things to name. These guys have managed to fuck it up on just about every single level. Ive read more than a few of the new books, and I honestly cant find anything redeeming about any of them. Simply put they are trash, and if they did not have the word "Dune" on them, they would have been stopped years ago.SandChigger wrote:I seriously can't believe how many of you say that bad writing would have been acceptable if it weren't for the inconsistencies.
I just don't get that at all.
Yes it is. Because Brian Herbert is involved, and not only is he a shitty writer, but he exercised very poor judgment in selecting a writing partner, and the HLP has made a big mistake by not putting its foot down about this shit. BH's greatest contribution to literature was a fucking book about funny insurance claims. Humor arising from the pain of others. Ha ha ha. You know what? I actually think that FH only told BH that he was thinking about doing a Dune book with him because he knew he was dying and wanted to preserve the decent relationship that he had finally achieved with his son. He probably felt guilty about his life with Brian and Bruce, and figured that he only had so much time to make up for the past before he went on to his great reward. So he said it and BH glommed onto it like he was still a hotel maid with no future otherwise.SandChigger wrote:Interesting, creative extensions/developments of the storylines, consistent with what Frank wrote, expressed in well crafted language. Why is it too much to ask for all of that?
