Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

I think that's just the first year's interest on the stimulus bill.

"You're not going to lose the house, Ray. Everyone has three mortgages nowadays."

GamePlayer wrote:"You're not going to lose the house, Ray. Everyone has three mortgages nowadays."

But I was BORN in that house!

I just watched that last week on On-Demand with my boys, they loved it!

Got to love On Demand.

That movie is surprisingly entertaining. The effects are so bad, but the characters, dialog and humor are sharp even today. Great film.

Many areas don't have multiple choices for coverage. There are many insurance companies that have a monopoly among the local population. How is that choice?

Just as the post office keeps UPS and FEDEX from charging the hell out of us, a public plan could do the same.

Insurance companies have no incentive to make you healthy because they make more money on your illness when they keep you that way.

Our country has one of the highest infant mortality rates and lowest life expectancy than any other industrialized nation, yet we pay almost double to triple what other nations pay.

Why not elect the officials we want to run it rather than have some faceless profit hungering prick that drives a BMW along with his other 20 cars?

The VA health system is run by the Govt and has the highest participant satisfaction of any health system in the states and even abroad. It pays less than any other system and it has incentive to make its participants healthier which it does on a consistent basis. The doctors don't worry about red tape, and info is streamlined to cut time and costs.

The guy that comes into my company to sell me healthcare(my rep) is a complete Mormon prick that dresses in designer suits and drives a BMW while flashing a perfect eat shit smile. You should hear about what he has to say about Obama....it would make your ears bleed. The whole time I'm ready to punch him in the face while trying to smile because he kept our rates to a "slight" increase which is really a favor he's doing us.

Fucker.


I think you know where I stand.

Crysknife wrote:The VA health system is run by the Govt and has the highest participant satisfaction of any health system in the states and even abroad. It pays less than any other system and it has incentive to make its participants healthier which it does on a consistent basis. The doctors don't worry about red tape, and info is streamlined to cut time and costs.

Like I said, and as you mention above, we already have Government Healthcare options. Fix those before you make new ones.

Apart from the money, where are the doctors going to come from to treat 40 million more people?

Freakzilla wrote:

Crysknife wrote:The VA health system is run by the Govt and has the highest participant satisfaction of any health system in the states and even abroad. It pays less than any other system and it has incentive to make its participants healthier which it does on a consistent basis. The doctors don't worry about red tape, and info is streamlined to cut time and costs.

Like I said, and as you mention above, we already have Government Healthcare options. Fix those before you make new ones.

Apart from the money, where are the doctors going to come from to treat 40 million more people?

And on a side note... veterans have EARNED that quality of healthcare. I don't think it should be given to welfare cases. You want inexpensive, high quality care? Join the military.

Crysknife wrote: Our country has one of the highest infant mortality rates and lowest life expectancy than any other industrialized nation, yet we pay almost double to triple what other nations pay.

Those stats speak fairly loud eh? I've heard them over and over, but it would be nice to see some actual numbers rather than broad statements like those.

Freakzilla wrote:

Crysknife wrote:The VA health system is run by the Govt and has the highest participant satisfaction of any health system in the states and even abroad. It pays less than any other system and it has incentive to make its participants healthier which it does on a consistent basis. The doctors don't worry about red tape, and info is streamlined to cut time and costs.

Like I said, and as you mention above, we already have Government Healthcare options. Fix those before you make new ones.
Apart from the money, where are the doctors going to come from to treat 40 million more people?

Lots of our doctors head your way anyways, you could just import a couple more! Lots of places to import em from until the current batches graduate.

How they'll get paid... nuther question altogether.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Crysknife wrote: Our country has one of the highest infant mortality rates and lowest life expectancy than any other industrialized nation, yet we pay almost double to triple what other nations pay.

Those stats speak fairly loud eh? I've heard them over and over, but it would be nice to see some actual numbers rather than broad statements like those.

http://www.vvaw.org/commentary/VetCrisisReport4-HR.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wouldn't go to the VA for treatment unless I had absolutely no other choice.

However, It's nice to know I have that choice.

I'm not saying everyone is treated poorly by the VA, but there are horror stories.

Freakzilla wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Crysknife wrote: Our country has one of the highest infant mortality rates and lowest life expectancy than any other industrialized nation, yet we pay almost double to triple what other nations pay.

Those stats speak fairly loud eh? I've heard them over and over, but it would be nice to see some actual numbers rather than broad statements like those.

http://www.vvaw.org/commentary/VetCrisisReport4-HR.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wouldn't go to the VA for treatment unless I had absolutely no other choice.

However, It's nice to know I have that choice.

I'm not saying everyone is treated poorly by the VA, but there are horror stories.

I think those stats are for your entire country, not just the VA program. In general US citizens die younger, are less healthy and pay more for their healthcare than any other developed nation. Supposedly - I've heard that from several places, but I haven't seen the actual data or who collected it.

Sorry, I thought you wanted stats on VA healthcare.

It's funny, one minute I hear we have the best healthcare in the world, the next I hear like what was posted above. I've never seen any stats either.

I do know that I've not ever had a bad experience with my Health Insurance.

Infant mortality rates:

http://www.mchb.hrsa.gov/mchirc/chusa_0 ... 05iimr.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Life expectancy:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... ancy_N.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Freakzilla wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

Crysknife wrote:The VA health system is run by the Govt and has the highest participant satisfaction of any health system in the states and even abroad. It pays less than any other system and it has incentive to make its participants healthier which it does on a consistent basis. The doctors don't worry about red tape, and info is streamlined to cut time and costs.

Like I said, and as you mention above, we already have Government Healthcare options. Fix those before you make new ones.

Apart from the money, where are the doctors going to come from to treat 40 million more people?

And on a side note... veterans have EARNED that quality of healthcare. I don't think it should be given to welfare cases. You want inexpensive, high quality care? Join the military.

If nothing else, it shows that the Govt CAN run better health care than private companies.

The sign of a healthy nation is how it takes care of its young, poor, and old. We're doing a piss poor job if you ask me.

The best healthcare in the universe is not going to increase the life expectancy of a population of which 30% is morbidly obese by choice.

I say we make fat people pay for it.

Freakzilla wrote:Sorry, I thought you wanted stats on VA healthcare.

It's funny, one minute I hear we have the best healthcare in the world, the next I hear like what was posted above. I've never seen any stats either.

I do know that I've not ever had a bad experience with my Health Insurance.

No idea where you heard the "best" thing from, maybe the republicans? The relatively poor healthcare of the US is internationally famous, and I say that with no insult meant, it's just one of the things everyone thinks of when they think of the states, kinda like Canada and maple syrup.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:Sorry, I thought you wanted stats on VA healthcare.

It's funny, one minute I hear we have the best healthcare in the world, the next I hear like what was posted above. I've never seen any stats either.

I do know that I've not ever had a bad experience with my Health Insurance.

No idea where you heard the "best" thing from, maybe the republicans? The relatively poor healthcare of the US is internationally famous, and I say that with no insult meant, it's just one of the things everyone thinks of when they think of the states, kinda like Canada and maple syrup.

I never hear of people being rushed to other countries for the best care money can buy... unless it's a sex change operation.

I'm sure averaging the 40 million people without HC which includes illegal aliens and people who chose not to have it brings the numbers down.

Freakzilla wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:Sorry, I thought you wanted stats on VA healthcare.

It's funny, one minute I hear we have the best healthcare in the world, the next I hear like what was posted above. I've never seen any stats either.

I do know that I've not ever had a bad experience with my Health Insurance.

No idea where you heard the "best" thing from, maybe the republicans? The relatively poor healthcare of the US is internationally famous, and I say that with no insult meant, it's just one of the things everyone thinks of when they think of the states, kinda like Canada and maple syrup.

I never hear of people being rushed to other countries for the best care money can buy... unless it's a sex change operation.

I'm sure averaging the 40 million people without HC which includes illegal aliens and people who chose not to have it brings the numbers down.

For the rich and well insured it's obviously a good system, the overall treatment of people in the system is what's famous (AKA: the RESULTS) not the service it'self. I'm sure the quality of the docters is as good or better than Canada, but the quality of what people actually DO get rather than what they COULD get with more $$ is what is famous.

Like I said, wasn't meant as an insult, that's just the reputation.

Freakzilla wrote:The best healthcare in the universe is not going to increase the life expectancy of a population of which 30% is morbidly obese by choice.

I say we make fat people pay for it.

That's just it, there is no incentive for health insurance companies in this country to cure people or help keep them fit. In fact, if there is any incentive at all it is to keep them fat and manage their health problems for more profits.

International obesity rates:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_o ... th-obesity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think we're starting to see a pattern here.....

Freakzilla wrote:

Crysknife wrote:The VA health system is run by the Govt and has the highest participant satisfaction of any health system in the states and even abroad. It pays less than any other system and it has incentive to make its participants healthier which it does on a consistent basis. The doctors don't worry about red tape, and info is streamlined to cut time and costs.

Like I said, and as you mention above, we already have Government Healthcare options. Fix those before you make new ones.

Apart from the money, where are the doctors going to come from to treat 40 million more people?

India. That's where loads of doctors in the UK come from.

I can't believe Americans still haven't got their heads around basic social medicine. It's like something out of the dark ages.

WELL DAMMIT, IT'S OUR GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO EXPRESS OUR INDIVIDUAL STUPIDITIES IN A COLLECTIVE FASHION!!! AMEN!

Re: is health care a right or a privilege?

I consider it a right. Or put it this way: I don't think anyone should suffer or die from an illness or injury due to lack of basic health care, solely because they couldn't afford it. We are a wealthy enough nation that we *should* be able to guarantee that for all the people who live here.

I grew up in Australia, and I think its health care system is much better than here. Yes, people's taxes pay for people's health care. Yes, the healthy and the wealthy pay for the sick and the poor. Yes, most people - directly or indirectly - pay more into the health care system in any given year than they use, unless they are injured, sick or have a low income. But anyone could go to any doctor any time and get basic health care for free. Period.

Furthermore, the actual costs of the whole system were relatively low, because much of the system was either government-run or not-for-profit. So the tax burden on the public was minimal, because it all went into the health care system, not into boosting a private company's stock price.

Having said all that, though, I think it would be very difficult for the U.S. to move to a system like that. The cost of health care here is much higher, due to all sorts of reasons - not the least of which is that almost the whole system consists of private, for-profit corporations. So we can't just decide to have the U.S. government start paying for it all - the tax burden would be prohibitive. Making health care affordable through the tax system relies (I believe) on a fundamental switch to a health system founded on non-profit institutions, and I don't see that happening any time soon.

The only alternative I can see is to legislate the private system to guarantee a minimum level of service to everyone. For example:

* standardized minimum coverage
* any doctor, any time - NO NETWORKS
* compulsory coverage by employers for employees earning below a certain wage
* not-for-profit policies available to the government to cover the unemployed.

Obviously, there are enormous problems in the details of this scheme. For one, it seems like it would place the burden of cost on employers, in order to preserve insurance and medical company revenues. But something along these lines (it seems to me) is the only way to achieve a standardized level of health care using the private-based health system we have.

HBJ

Man, I need to learn not to post opinionated bullshit at 2am. Someone might take me seriously.

HBJ

Hunchback Jack wrote:Man, I need to learn not to post opinionated bullshit at 2am. Someone might take me seriously.

HBJ

I don't know about that... I liked what you said. Made some good points. IMHO

I don't see why the rich people in this country are untouchable or beyond criticism. It is true that in the States you can make something of yourself and the rewards can be great. But who helped get you there? Could you have gotten rich without the working class or the poor that still buy your products? Could you have gotten rich without living in this country and the having the benefits that implies?

So it's ok to step on the little guy to get rich but not ok when the little guy asks the rich guy for some cancer medication one day? Not everyone can be Bill Gates or the CEO of a major corp. We have to protect our citizens and if that means the rich give a little back then so-be-it.

Some great comments by the one and only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRS8TKD2lB4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U25QfKpLMn4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just don't like demonizing the rich. In our primitive socioeconomic systems, there has to be some kind of incentive in order to drive humans into achieving. Besides, the rich pay quantitatively more to society even if they pay proportionally less than the average person. I think that's sharing enough.