Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

I guess the whole faking it thing worked with the moon landing, so hey, why not... sure.

Kojiro wrote:...

This whole thing was a publicity stunt hoax concocted to save Obama's plummeting approval rating and ensure his reelection. It's all snake oil and smoke and mirrors.

He ain't going to get reelected unless the Republicans are dumb enough to run Trump. If people will remember what these elected officials did this year then a lot of them should be packing their bags.

That's funny, I think Obama's back in unless they run Trump, Trump is right up the republican alley, he's like a smarter (debatable to what degree...) male Palin, PERFECT!

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I guess the whole faking it thing worked with the moon landing, so hey, why not... sure.

Oh, hey, yeah... great point... It's not like the astronauts placed large reflective panels on the Moon that we can bounce light off of so we can calculate the rate that the Moon's moving from us, it's average distance, and... Oh wait.

Nice strawman.

Edit: And it's that type of ridicule Obama will use to silence those like me who disbelieve his claims of killing bin Laden.

He hasn't popped his head up anywhere yet and said, "Nyah nyah, I'm still alive!"

I really don't care either way. It doesn't really change anything one way or the other; doesn't bring back any of the 9/11 dead, doesn't fix the mess in Afghanistan or Iraq, certainly doesn't improve US relations with the Muslim world, so...???

YAWN.

SandChigger wrote:He hasn't popped his head up anywhere yet and said, "Nyah nyah, I'm still alive!"

Well considering that my position is that he's been dead since 2002, I don't expect him to.

Unless the government sees fit to bring him back for a sequel.

I reiterate: YAWN.

Kojiro wrote:Oh, I dunno... maybe prove to the skeptics like myself that they really did what they said they did. Hell, according Islam Law, burying him at sea was a big no-no and yet Islam's law is the reason they gave for the hasty "burial." And now, and now they're revising events about the goddamn op! They can't even get the fucking story straight! Sound familiar concerning a certain hack and an idiot son? They're lying.

This whole thing was a publicity stunt hoax concocted to save Obama's plummeting approval rating and ensure his reelection. It's all snake oil and smoke and mirrors.

Kojiro wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I guess the whole faking it thing worked with the moon landing, so hey, why not... sure.

Oh, hey, yeah... great point... It's not like the astronauts placed large reflective panels on the Moon that we can bounce light off of so we can calculate the rate that the Moon's moving from us, it's average distance, and... Oh wait.

Nice strawman.

Edit: And it's that type of ridicule Obama will use to silence those like me who disbelieve his claims of killing bin Laden.

Dude calm down, that was what us humans call a joke.

I don't disrespect your position that Osama has possibly been dead for some time and this is being faked - I don't agree with it as the more likely of the two scenarios by a long shot, but I respect that you've come to that conclusion.

I take issue with the way you present it. Anyone who dissagrees with you is basically being told their naive, even though your position relies on a great deal of filling in the gaps with your imagination (not saying ours doesn't just that yours does too).

I'm going to tell you straight up: you're not intelligent enough to behave in as elitist and condescending a manner as you do.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:That's funny, I think Obama's back in unless they run Trump, Trump is right up the republican alley, he's like a smarter (debatable to what degree...) male Palin, PERFECT!

Are you fucking kidding me, buddy? Trump has a chance? Obama is not going to have to fight against anyone else?

It's gonna be a bloody battle to the death this next presidential election, and Trump is gonna be out as a laughing-stock early on. My prediction.

SandChigger wrote:He hasn't popped his head up anywhere yet and said, "Nyah nyah, I'm still alive!"

I really don't care either way. It doesn't really change anything one way or the other; doesn't bring back any of the 9/11 dead, doesn't fix the mess in Afghanistan or Iraq, certainly doesn't improve US relations with the Muslim world, so...???

YAWN.

Similar sentiments. Although to be fair I rarely care about any political stuff.

It's interesting that this is somehow a victory. This makes it look like it took one of the most powerful nations in the world 10 years to kill a guy...

Yes, I truly am that ignorant of world events.

Omphalos wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:That's funny, I think Obama's back in unless they run Trump, Trump is right up the republican alley, he's like a smarter (debatable to what degree...) male Palin, PERFECT!

Are you fucking kidding me, buddy? Trump has a chance? Obama is not going to have to fight against anyone else?

It's gonna be a bloody battle to the death this next presidential election, and Trump is gonna be out as a laughing-stock early on. My prediction.

I dunno man, they picked PALIN as candidate for vice president (and lost I guess...), I honestly think Trump is exactly what republican voters are looking for. He's super capitalist and apears to be pretty good at it, extremely alarmist (right there that's the key republican thing) and really loves to fling mud (doesn't seem so good at it now that the birther thing failed though!).

I agree it's going to be tough for Obama though, he didn't really have a chance to do nearly as much as he wanted and as such may come across as underwhelming.

Nekhrun wrote:

Kojiro wrote:Oh, I dunno... maybe prove to the skeptics like myself that they really did what they said they did. Hell, according Islam Law, burying him at sea was a big no-no and yet Islam's law is the reason they gave for the hasty "burial." And now, and now they're revising events about the goddamn op! They can't even get the fucking story straight! Sound familiar concerning a certain hack and an idiot son? They're lying.

This whole thing was a publicity stunt hoax concocted to save Obama's plummeting approval rating and ensure his reelection. It's all snake oil and smoke and mirrors.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Kojiro wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I guess the whole faking it thing worked with the moon landing, so hey, why not... sure.

Oh, hey, yeah... great point... It's not like the astronauts placed large reflective panels on the Moon that we can bounce light off of so we can calculate the rate that the Moon's moving from us, it's average distance, and... Oh wait.

Nice strawman.

Edit: And it's that type of ridicule Obama will use to silence those like me who disbelieve his claims of killing bin Laden.

Dude calm down, that was what us humans call a joke.

I don't disrespect your position that Osama has possibly been dead for some time and this is being faked - I don't agree with it as the more likely of the two scenarios by a long shot, but I respect that you've come to that conclusion.

I take issue with the way you present it. Anyone who dissagrees with you is basically being told their naive, even though your position relies on a great deal of filling in the gaps with your imagination (not saying ours doesn't just that yours does too).

I'm going to tell you straight up: you're not intelligent enough to behave in as elitist and condescending a manner as you do.

Well, don't you find it odd that they're still trying to get the details of their story right? That they conveniently dumped the body at sea instead of giving him a proper Muslim burial (at this point it might as well have been a ham sandwich they dumped in the words of Alex Jones)? That they're delaying release of this so-called photo/footage that allegedly proves that he was killed by them? There's no fucking evidence to back Obama's claims, and the notion that Osama was hanging out in caves for ten years with failing kidneys and diabetes is ludicrous. Have you ever gone back to look at those 2001- 2002 pictures of him? He looks like he's on death's door! Hell, years ago, the FBI's top counterterrorism official, Dale Watson, said that he felt bin Laden was no longer among the living. There's been talk of his death for years from various sources over the last decade. Sorry, but the burden of proof lies on the government.

It's not Mother's Day yet.

SadisticCynic wrote:Although to be fair I rarely care about any political stuff.

I used to be that way, too. Not that I really give that much of shit now, as long as I keep in mind what a load of crap most politics is.

And speaking of the Politics cesspool, shouldn't this thread be repinched over that way to float out of (my) sight with the other turds?

Go ahead and move it.

Rob

I dare you.

<puts thread on shoulder>

(I'm not saying it was turd to begin with, Robbo. )

Chig, I'm cool, I saw the news, gf was emotional, brother just back from his third deployment to Iraq, started to get calls from the family of those I knew who were at the Pentagon. I just put it up where I happened to be at the time

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Omphalos wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:That's funny, I think Obama's back in unless they run Trump, Trump is right up the republican alley, he's like a smarter (debatable to what degree...) male Palin, PERFECT!

Are you fucking kidding me, buddy? Trump has a chance? Obama is not going to have to fight against anyone else?

It's gonna be a bloody battle to the death this next presidential election, and Trump is gonna be out as a laughing-stock early on. My prediction.

I dunno man, they picked PALIN as candidate for vice president (and lost I guess...), I honestly think Trump is exactly what republican voters are looking for. He's super capitalist and apears to be pretty good at it, extremely alarmist (right there that's the key republican thing) and really loves to fling mud (doesn't seem so good at it now that the birther thing failed though!).

I agree it's going to be tough for Obama though, he didn't really have a chance to do nearly as much as he wanted and as such may come across as underwhelming.

Ah, nuts. The only reason they picked Palin was because five days earlier Obama said he wasn't picking Clinton. It was ill calculated pandering. The GOP has learned its lesson about uncontrollable, mouthy dumbasses (though the tea-baggers may go for him; I hadn't considered that).

Well, don't you find it odd that they're still trying to get the details of their story right? That they conveniently dumped the body at sea instead of giving him a proper Muslim burial (at this point it might as well have been a ham sandwich they dumped in the words of Alex Jones)? That they're delaying release of this so-called photo/footage that allegedly proves that he was killed by them?

The problem with this sort of reasoning is that if you approach practically any event in this frame of mind, looking for things that don't add up, you're going to find them - because we don't have all the information, because we don't really have the expertise to judge what we should expect to see in these situations, and because the military, the government, and pretty much any large multi-faceted organization, do not act as a single functional unit with a common intent. So you get different versions of what happened, and why, even from people very close to the action.

Read any conspiracy site on 9/11, the moon landing, or the Kennedy assassination, and this is almost entirely the reasoning used - we don't believe the official story, and look at THIS, and THIS and THIS over HERE - these don't look right, do they? But there's rarely any evidence in favour of the precise conspiracy theory being put forward. It's all speculation based on a presupposition of conspiracy and a list of things that "don't add up" when considering the official version.

(Contrast this with Watergate, where a detailed case was built up over a long period of time, most thanks to someone deep inside who had verifiable information about the conspiracy).

I'll concede that in this case it's possible that there's been a cover up. I don't mean to lump this in with the wacko theories I mentioned above; they were just for illustration. But given the problems with risk, benefit and effectiveness in covering up Osama's death for nine years, I think it's far more likely that the points you're raising are a due to combination of confused information, figuring out how much of that information should be released, and hasty or bad decisions in what to do with the body. They are still crafting the story for this, as new information comes in and as they figure out what the official line should be - probably because things went down that they don't want to be made public. But does that mean Osama's been dead since 2002? I don't think so.

HBJ

Hunchback Jack wrote:

Well, don't you find it odd that they're still trying to get the details of their story right? That they conveniently dumped the body at sea instead of giving him a proper Muslim burial (at this point it might as well have been a ham sandwich they dumped in the words of Alex Jones)? That they're delaying release of this so-called photo/footage that allegedly proves that he was killed by them?

The problem

The only problem is that no one ever investigates anymore, especially the journalists. They just happily report what the government said and don't go any deeper. There should be an investigation on this and a lot of other things in this modern era. It's shameful that there isn't and frankly your reasoning justifies the actions of a certain hack we all hate.

Ok kiddo, time for bed.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Ok kiddo, time for bed.

Well then, I guess we really are Talifans that don't appreciate the numbers of books KJA writes. Go ahead, believe the Official Doctrine as dictated by the government, because governments never lie. Neither do churches or corporations. In fact, lying doesn't exist. It's just a fiction. Everyone tells the truth, even if they don't have evidence because it's all true anyway.

Kojiro wrote:

Hunchback Jack wrote:

Well, don't you find it odd that they're still trying to get the details of their story right? That they conveniently dumped the body at sea instead of giving him a proper Muslim burial (at this point it might as well have been a ham sandwich they dumped in the words of Alex Jones)? That they're delaying release of this so-called photo/footage that allegedly proves that he was killed by them?

The problem

The only problem is that no one ever investigates anymore, especially the journalists. They just happily report what the government said and don't go any deeper.

No argument here. But the lack of investigation by the media doesn't give any more credence to a conspiracy theory.

There should be an investigation on this and a lot of other things in this modern era.

Well yes, and in this case more transparency might be warranted. But in general, I don't think the burden of proof is on the govt or military for every event that occurs, to satisfy proponents of the crackpot conspiracy theory de jour. They have better things to do.

It's shameful that there isn't and frankly your reasoning justifies the actions of a certain hack we all hate.

Pphhtt. Whatever. Just because I weigh up the options and come to a conclusion closer to the stated one than yours, that doesn't mean I ever take anything at face value, or that I'm a liar or a dupe.

HBJ