Paul of Dune spoilers

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 30 Sep 2008 14:48

Yeah I even skipped it waiting for the master to appear. there is just sooo much we can do with that picture.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 30 Sep 2008 15:43

Serkanner wrote:What on Earth have they done to the publisher to "persuade" him or her to publish this?

Brought in the Big Buck$?

TheDukester · Post by **TheDukester** » 30 Sep 2008 15:52

GamePlayer wrote:I don't know how the hell I missed this one. He might as well be wearing a shirt that says "Never fuck the person wearing this shirt"

I "de-motivated" it right after I saw it on Kevvie's blog. It's buried somewhere in that thread.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » 30 Sep 2008 16:21

I am confused.. isn't Fenring a eunuch?

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 30 Sep 2008 16:39

genetic eunuch. defining that is a bit of a problem. teh google didn't bring up much except Dune fan speculation.

From what I can tell being a eunuch does not make sex impossible it just cripples the libido as well as making you sterile.

I'm assuming Fenring is probably just sterile as this is all the BG would care about.

To nail them on this we'd need an example from the House books that describes Fenring as not capable of sex.

dunaddict · Post by **dunaddict** » 30 Sep 2008 17:45

From 'House Atreides':

Fenring's oversize eyes were alert and feral. A genetic-eunuch, incapable of fathering children because of his congenital deformities, he was still one of the deadliest fighters in the Imperium, so single-mindedly ferocious that he was more than a match for any Sardaukar.

The deformities prevented sex? Or do they mean internal deformities that made him sterile? Hmmm.

EDIT: Yes, internal deformities. So he was capable of 'sex'.

It was rumored that this undersized man had stabbed two of his lovers to death, and from his slithery demeanor Grera believed it. Through her years of experience, she had learned how to recognize a man capable of extreme cruelty. Fenring's genitals were supposedly malformed and sterile, though sexually functional. She had never slept with him herself, nor did she wish to.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » 30 Sep 2008 18:14

I always assumed genetic eunuch meant he was born without balls.

It's really terrible how P&tB turned one of the more noble characters in the books into a slimy perv.

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » 30 Sep 2008 18:56

Mandy wrote:I always assumed genetic eunuch meant he was born without balls.

.

Well, i tought the same at the time.

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 30 Sep 2008 19:09

That's what I had assumed too.

Lisan Al-Gaib · Post by **Lisan Al-Gaib** » 30 Sep 2008 20:04

Eunuch's definition at wikipédia:

A eunuch (IPA: /ˈjuː.nək/) is a castrated man, in particular one castrated early enough to have major hormonal consequences; the term usually refers to those castrated in order to perform a specific social function, as was common in many societies of the past. The earliest records for intentional castration to produce eunuchs are from the Sumerian city of Lagash in the twenty first century BC.[citation needed] Over the millennia since, they have performed a wide variety of functions in many different cultures such as courtiers or equivalent domestics, treble singers, religious specialists, government officials, military commanders, and guardians of women or harem servants. In some translations of ancient texts, individuals identified as eunuchs seem to include men who were impotent with women, those we would now call transgender or homosexual, and those who were simply celibate.

It's a castrated man. It had the same meaning as impotent only in some ancient texts.

So, by logic, genetic-eunuch should mean a man that it was born castrated, as I imagine the Count Fenring.

edit: I'm bad today.... =(

Rakis · Post by **Rakis** » 30 Sep 2008 22:17

Mandy wrote: It's really terrible how P&tB turned one of the more noble characters in the books into a slimy perv.

It takes one to write about one...

But overall, i think that's only what they are able to do instead of the way FH wrote about the characters : Instead of making them think, observe,analyze,etc...they just make the characters attractive to their public : Perv, psychos,etc...for them, that's personnality...

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 01 Oct 2008 04:08

Small fry:

The revelation that the Moritanis are really the Trantors (or something like that), the renegade house that nuked Salusa Secundus, has been gnawing at the back of my mind since I came across it.

Because I couldn't find anything in the originals about Salusa Secundus having been nuked.

D'uh. That's because it's from the fooking House books. Grrrrrr.

Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:26) All citation to Nuked Salusa Secundus deleted. (there isn't any mention in the originals about Salusa being nuked.)

(Remember this?)

Insidious shit, seeps everywhere....

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » 01 Oct 2008 13:16

Ghost wrote:
Mandy wrote:I always assumed genetic eunuch meant he was born without balls.

.
Well, i tought the same at the time.

Nothing KJA and that other guy writes has any effect on my opinion of the real Dune novels.

chanilover · Post by **chanilover** » 01 Oct 2008 15:24

SandChigger wrote:Here, how's this (from "Chapter" 10 of Part III):

As soon as he was confident that the Tleilaxu spy-eyes were deactivated, he and Margot disrobed, gazing on each other in the warm light of golden glowpanels. She led him to the bed, and the two of them began to demonstrate their proficiency in an ever-increasing repertoire of pleasuring skills. Over four decades, Fenring was continually amazed at how much he had learned and how many techniques he had yet to try.

"Ah, my dear, you are always a wonder to me." As they lay on the bed, he kissed her tenderly. She worked the gentlest touch of her fingertips along his ear, creating an invisible embroidery of fired neurons in his skin. He shuddered.

"We are well suited to each other," she agreed.

...

As he made love to her, Fenring fantasized, but not about other women. He remembered the feel of warm blood on his fingers, the careful selection of proper tools of his trade. If he had enough safe time after performing his wet work, he rather enjoyed gazing upon the rich burgundy color of his victim's life essence, the way it gushed from the body and pooled and sparkled in the smallest light, as if trying to recapture life, but then stopped and coagulated and hardened. Even Shaddam did not know how many people Fenring had killed.

The first of his murders had occurred at a much younger age than the Corrino patriarch realized, when Fenring was only four. Four! He was proud of this accomplishment, because it meant that even at a young age he was able to identify enemies. The teenage yard boy he'd stabbed had deserved it anyway, because the older boy had tried to molest him. Even as a child, Fenring had seen through the tricky words and promises and had plunged a pocket knife deep into the aggressor's abdomen. His willpower always made up for any mismatch in physical strength between himself and his opponent. Young Hasimir had inflicted a hundred wounds on his victim's body before getting his fill. Because the teenager had been furtive about his abnormal sexual activities, no one had ever suspected the four-year-old.

He sighed now, feeling the thrill of remembrance. Margot held him, adjusting het own movements to his, expertly controlling her own body so that they climaxed simultaneously and thunderously.
My GAWD...I wish I could remember the last time I "climaxed...thunderously"!

Here's the really nasty bit:

"How long have you been there?" Fenring demanded.

"I was watching. I was learning. You are both very interesting."

Fenring had never been particularly prudish, and Lady Margot certainly wasn't, but the idea of their daughter simply observing during their lovemaking both disoriented and embarrassed him. In a very real sense, it was much worse than the inquisitive eyes of the Tleilaxu.

"You must leam to respect the boundaries of privacy," her mother said.

"That is not what you've taught me. You trained me to be invisible, so that I could spy. Did I not do a good job?"

Lady Margot didn't quite know what to say. At last, Fenring chuckled. For countless centuries, children had been wandering in upon their parents having sex, but it should be accidental. Not a planned thing.

"Yes, you have learned well, Marie," he said wryly. "You have certainly taught us to be more careful."
(Countless centuries? Try millennia. They really don't handle this scale stuff very well do they? )

I'd love a psychologist try to analyse that. Anderson is a truly vile pervert.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 01 Oct 2008 15:49

And that Lady Margot is supposed to be Bene Gesserit, a teacher of children?

When has a BG EVER not known what to say?

Idiots.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » 01 Oct 2008 16:00

When did the BG get the invisibility superpower?

Post by **Freakzilla** » 01 Oct 2008 16:03

Mandy wrote:When did the BG get the invisibility superpower?

I believe it was in House Harkonnen.

Tleszer · Post by **Tleszer** » 01 Oct 2008 16:05

Mandy wrote:When did the BG get the invisibility superpower?

I believe it was House Harkonnen. The BG used their "invisibility" to hide from Rabban and his men while they explored Wallach IX.

dunaddict · Post by **dunaddict** » 01 Oct 2008 16:33

Yes, in House Harkonnen. The Baron is down on Wallach IX:

Rustling like bats, hundreds of Sisters filled the dining hall, amused to watch the Baron's antics, dodging him as if it were a game of invisible tag. Some crouched under tables; Jessica and Mohiam pressed against the wall. All the women were in silent breathing mode, concentrating on the illusion. No one spoke. They were in plain sight, but the befuddled Harkonnens could neither see nor sense them. The Baron saw only what the Bene Gesserit wanted him to see.

The explanation:

In preparation for the mass hypnosis that now smothered the Baron and his men, Sister Cristane had allowed herself to be visible to them, so she could lead them into the web. But gradually the guide had faded from view as the Sisters concentrated, focusing their efforts on these pliable victims.

From the same chapter. No comment:

"You shall fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration." She walked around him, spoke to the back of his head. "You cannot face your fear. It will pass inside you and infect you." [...] "When we look upon the path of your fear, there will be nothing left of you." Smoothly, Mohiam slipped away from him. "Only the Sisterhood will remain."

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 01 Oct 2008 16:45

dunaddict wrote:Yes, in House Harkonnen. The Baron is down on Wallach IX:
Rustling like bats, hundreds of Sisters filled the dining hall, amused to watch the Baron's antics, dodging him as if it were a game of invisible tag. Some crouched under tables; Jessica and Mohiam pressed against the wall. All the women were in silent breathing mode, concentrating on the illusion. No one spoke. They were in plain sight, but the befuddled Harkonnens could neither see nor sense them. The Baron saw only what the Bene Gesserit wanted him to see.
The explanation:
In preparation for the mass hypnosis that now smothered the Baron and his men, Sister Cristane had allowed herself to be visible to them, so she could lead them into the web. But gradually the guide had faded from view as the Sisters concentrated, focusing their efforts on these pliable victims.
From the same chapter. No comment:

"You shall fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration." She walked around him, spoke to the back of his head. "You cannot face your fear. It will pass inside you and infect you." [...] "When we look upon the path of your fear, there will be nothing left of you." Smoothly, Mohiam slipped away from him. "Only the Sisterhood will remain."

I hear over and over (from OH and some preeks) that the House series was the best they've done so far, but whenever I see someone quote them or talk about them it's always they craziest shit that IMO out-does the fuckups in the Legends series.

Lisan Al-Gaib · Post by **Lisan Al-Gaib** » 01 Oct 2008 17:22

Rustling like bats, hundreds of Sisters filled the dining hall, amused to watch the Baron's antics, dodging him as if it were a game of invisible tag. Some crouched under tables ; Jessica and Mohiam pressed against the wall. All the women were in silent breathing mode, concentrating on the illusion. No one spoke. They were in plain sight, but the befuddled Harkonnens could neither see nor sense them. The Baron saw only what the Bene Gesserit wanted him to see.

Oh fuck....Are the Bene Gesserits playing hide-and-seek??? Should this paragraph be serious?

I hear over and over (from OH and some preeks) that the House series was the best they've done so far, but whenever I see someone quote them or talk about them it's always they craziest shit that IMO out-does the fuckups in the Legends series.

The only characters deserving attention in Dune: House Atreides is Paulus Atreides, Helena and a little bit: Duncan and Leto. However I think they could be million times better developed by FH, of course.

Paulus Atreides and Helena's parts was the exception that made me go until the end. Paulus was very close of what I imagine the Old Duke was. It would be very nice discover that Paulus was really created by FH.
And helena's role in the duke's death was the nicest plot of the book. The best chapter was Leto sending his mother to exile.
However, again, BH&KJA bad writing was excruciating, they destroy 80% of the book with their twisted ideas: Demoniac Baron, Perv Fenring, Idiot Shaddam, Moron Pardot, Ixian House ....

TheDukester · Post by **TheDukester** » 01 Oct 2008 17:23

Mandy wrote:When did the BG get the invisibility superpower?

Right after Kevvie read some Fantastic Four comics.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » 01 Oct 2008 18:28

Do Margot and Fenring ever speak in their secret humming language in PoD?

dunaddict · Post by **dunaddict** » 01 Oct 2008 19:09

Lisan Al-Gaib wrote: Paulus was very close of what I imagine the Old Duke was. It would be very nice discover that Paulus was really created by FH.

The Paulus character always bothered me in House Atreides when I read it. He is described as some sort of "Santa Claus / best granddaddy ever" type of guy, but look at this scene from Dune:

Jessica turned away, faced the painting of Leto's father. [...] She clenched her fists at her sides, glared at the painting.
"Damn you! Damn you! Damn you!" she whispered.

Maybe it's just me, but this leads me to believe this man was not perfect.

Lisan Al-Gaib · Post by **Lisan Al-Gaib** » 01 Oct 2008 19:29

dunaddict wrote:
Lisan Al-Gaib wrote: Paulus was very close of what I imagine the Old Duke was. It would be very nice discover that Paulus was really created by FH.
The Paulus character always bothered me in House Atreides when I read it. He is described as some sort of "Santa Claus / best granddaddy ever" type of guy, but look at this scene from Dune:

Jessica turned away, faced the painting of Leto's father. [...] She clenched her fists at her sides, glared at the painting.
"Damn you! Damn you! Damn you!" she whispered.
Maybe it's just me, but this leads me to believe this man was not perfect.

Agreed. Maybe my memory it's little confused, but I remember the Bananas in Pajamas telling (not showing) about the flaws of Paulus passed to Leto. Obviously, they didn't developed the character and they had never really shown that flaws, making the character appearing a Santa Claus-like (but I like santa

).
As I said I stopped in this book, of course I didn't like it. But I'm not a manichean guy, and these points was the only things I find readable.