Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

Nekhrun wrote:He claims to carefully read these books at least 7 times when he's doing his final edits. How many more times does he need to read something which repeats every detail 10 times. Reading a kja book 7 times is like reading something else at least 70 times.

Like watching M.A.S.H re-runs since the seventies.

I think the whole thing is based on a lie, he has had the whole trilogy hiked out and 'edited' since before the project was accepted by the publisher. I doubt that he's seen any of it for three years. I believe that he won't mention an upcoming project until it's already done.

Sorry, for some reason I thought he was re-reading the Saggy suns shit, prepping for more books - I missed that this was about Hellhole! I'll totally agree that that's pretty silly then, if he was doing editing reads within the last year then pretty much all of it should indeed be in his head.

So yeah... I thought we were talking about older books for some reason!

No, you're basically right, he's going to be rereading that shit, too. (Basically this reaffirms his primate relationship with any chimp that plays with its own shit.) To wit:

I’m rereading Hellhole, so that Brian and I can do our full-fledged outline of the second novel and start writing soon; I’ll be flying up to Seattle in the next couple of weeks for our pre-book brainstorming session. And Blood Lite 3: Aftertaste is going into production, so I have to chase down final tweaks to several stories and bios from 25 authors. I’m doing a last fine polish to the manuscript of my humorous zombie detective novel (an on-spec book), which my agent will be sending to publishers in a few weeks, and I’ve got to reread all seven volumes of the original Saga of Seven Suns to refresh my memory so I can begin work on the new trilogy, The Saga of Shadows. And a few articles, and some preparations for next year’s Superstars Writing Seminar in Las Vegas in April 2012.

Saga of Shadows? I guess he's going to be ripping off Babylon 5 next?

Anyway, he's currently creating interesting patterns with his SMELLHOLE fecal matter, and will be flinging the S7S poo-poo later.

Hmm, maybe doing a book tour in 13 cities in 16 days was the relaxing part…

Yeah... go fuck yerself with a broomstick there, cupcake.

Nekhrun wrote:He claims to carefully read these books at least 7 times when he's doing his final edits.

throwin' some Jesuit-fu on this shit:

if this is true, how can there be so many glaring internal inconsistencies
in a single book, nevermind in a "series" set in the same "universe" ?

a) Kevin J. Anderson is a sub-par intellect with minimal recall memory and low retention,
an extremely short attention-span, and an inability to organize and prioritize tasks ...
(which combined, are obvious indications of pre-frontal lobe damage/disorders ...)

b) Kevin J. Anderson is a lying sack of shit, who will say anything he thinks will
boost his "image" and bolster his "credibility" as a "professional writer"; he believes
saying the words are the same as doing the action ....
(and that is some type of sociopathic-checklist stuff)

of course, (a) does not discount or eliminate (b) ... & vice-versa

I firmly believe that Dozer thinks if he repeats something often enough it will somehow become truth - like his assertion that 'he has won, or been nominated for, numerous prestigious awards'

SandChigger wrote:Saga of Shadows? I guess he's going to be ripping off Babylon 5 next?

Well, if he does, hopefully he gets sued.

Sev wrote:I firmly believe that Dozer thinks if he repeats something often enough it will somehow become truth

that's another kind of psychosis right there ...

A lot (most?) of the inconsistencies are intentional changes, not mistakes.

Paul was born on Kaitain, etc., because Kevin J. Anderson thinks he knows better about what would be ultra-cool for Dune than Frank Herbert himself did.

And that is why he is an asshat pickle fucker.

SandChigger wrote:A lot (most?) of the inconsistencies are intentional changes, not mistakes.

Paul was born on Kaitain, etc., because Kevin J. Anderson thinks he knows better about what would be ultra-cool for Dune than Frank Herbert himself did.

And that is why he is an asshat pickle fucker.

I think that's very true - most of the things that really stand out to me are really lame choices made for the sake of his cheesy-ass plot ideas, like having Paul join the fucking circus. They keep making intentional choices that strip the characters down to one dimension and betray Frank Herbert's ideas, and this is why they should be denounced.

I still think a lot of it has to do with his writing style: He arrogantly believes he hikes out 'perfect prose'. He has an 'outline': today I must hike out 12 chapters where A, B, and C happen.

He starts hiking and yapping and goes as far as he can on topic A. Then his brain shifts to talk about B, then C. Repeat. This is why we get 3 page chapters, plots that go nowhere, and 1 dimensional characters. KJA sees the characters in his mind, he knows what they will say, but he's only one person trying to get to the point as quickly as possible, so he spends no time telling the reader who it is that is doing something, only what they did and how awesome it was. "I wish you could have seen it!"

Again, since all the characters are half-dimensional actors of the authors mind, they are all limited to his own intellect, which as we have observed, isn't much. I think more often that not he knows what will happen at A or B or C, but has no idea how to get there, but his arrogance won't allow him to just say "It happens". He has to 1-up some reason why that beats something else, or rename something that needs no renaming.

Also, because if his writing style, it is impossible for him to stop and think about an action in the book. I'd challenge you to find a character that stops and thinks about something they are about to do. They do it, and depending on what act of the plot they are in and if they are a villain or a protagonist it works or doesn't. KJA would make a fascinating case study for rhetoric: an author who tries to convince his audience without any kind of argument: things just happen "because".

To top it off his editing is a farce and there is more color on his shirt and DVD's from the Doritos cheese dust than there on the manuscript from any red editing pen.

Finally: Amp's review of HELLHOLE

Two Stars.

WHAT AMP? TWO WHOLE STARS? WTF?

Yeah, 2. 1 for being a 1 star book, and 1 for giving me 5 stars worth of entertainment. And 1 (rescinded) out of pity.

Hellhole is a book about how awesome the authors are. This is an audacious and arrogant attempt to write

an all-new epic!

To do this the authors pull from many of the pivotal science fiction and science fantasy universes in an effort to create a grand new adventure.

By pull from I mean rob at gunpoint, by effort I mean copy and paste, and by adventure I mean ass-raped by highwaymen who just robbed you and stole your own work with the kind of plagiarism that only the cleverest of college freshmen try to pull.

Lets see. Star Wars? Check. X-files? Check. Oh, and lets not forget the sobbing impregnated rape-victim that gave birth to the text: Dune.

At least, with Dune, they are robbing from their own hacked Dune works. So you can add incest to the charge. The names have been changed to protect the franchise.

PLOT: Prologue: Tiber Adolphus successfully revolts against the evil corrupt star-empire. Yeah, that's right: HE WON. Then, so we can have an actual trilogy, he surrenders to avoid causing civilian deaths. That's funny, because the rebellion started with one of his officers barging into his family home and murdering every usurping SOB that was in the building.

It also makes space combat completely ridiculous: If Tiber is so uptight about causing civilian deaths, and his enemies know this, then he is effectively beaten. Any commander with a lick of strategy and no scruples (hey, this is KJA, so none of the villains will have scruples anyway) can lock some civilians in his brig and Tiber cannot fire on them without betraying everything he claims to stand for.
Oh, okay there was one villain who claimed he made the whole 'human shields' strategy up, but he's not trustworthy: he's semi-senile in one sense and tells the story twice in vastly different ways, both of which differ from the prologue we read.

The book betrays that the authors do not think about setting at all when they are writing. I call this the CGI green-screen effect, as if the book were written on a sound stage, and the reader has to imagine the backdrop for themselves, because what goes on in the background never effects what happens on the stage. Ever. Not once. It can effect a scene change, or represent 'drama and tension' but 1 person in the book dies to a natural disaster 'on screen'.

The text is so insensitive to anything that isn't mainstream that it almost feels deliberate. Religions other than the primary alien religion are mocked as silly or arrogant. The authors introduce a happy gay couple only to blatantly murder one of them in the same 5 page chapter. Worse, the method in which he died was something that multiple other characters experience safely: immersion in the slickwater pool. (no relation at all to X-files Black Oil...Black Oil was evil! Slickwater is good!)

Hey wait, weren't you talking about the Plot? Yeah, what plot? Bad guys are bad. Good guys are good, but in kind of a sticky situation, which they will get out of. Sorry, did I ruin the trilogy for you? Look at the cover of the book...looks scary! Read the book...Storms? What storms?

KEY POINTS TO READING HELLHOLE: Ask yourselves these questions before you read the text:

1 Should the setting actually have an influence on the characters and plot: (Should the text deal with resources, when its suggested that resources are very scarce? Should the storms be more than a dramatic backdrop?)
2 If the book claims to be science fiction, should it not remain consistent with generally held scientific theory? If it decides to break with that, shouldn't it explain why? (One of the authors has a BA in Physics.)
3 Should characters need more motivation for what they do other than which side of the good/evil scale they fall on?
4 Should the text be internally consistent?

If you answered no to any of those questions add one star for each no. That's the grade you will most likely give this book.

I cannot understand the target audience for this book. It boggles my mind that people can consider this good science fiction. Entertaining? Sure, some people can ignore glaringly obvious plot holes and 1 dimensional characters, but that is Hollywood's job, not the job of a whining and fumbling 'writer' who can't believe he hasn't won a Hugo yet.

That being said I derived quite a bit of entertainment from the book, but not from the enjoyment intended by the author(s). I took rather sick pleasure in tearing the text apart line by line for its pathetic mediocrity. Storms that tear up the landscape and scorch the earth, yet the colony has thriving farms and livestock industries, including the infamous vineyards. A method of space travel that is physically impossible and scientifically unsound, which was meant to make an allusion to the expansion of railroads, an allusion which is never expanded upon in the actual text. Politics and intrigue which are neither political or intriguing. A sick sense of viciousness from an author playing god with his characters, striking them down or rewarding them on a whim.

Short review? The book is bad.

Long review: The book was a waste of the author's time. This project has the same value as a B movie sent directly to DVD. I have no idea what possessed TOR to grant a 'good six figure' advance for this title as sales and quality have already shown it to be forgotten by the reading public, within a month of publication. The good news is that within six months anyone daring to try the book will have no trouble finding a Hardcover bargain copy for cheaper than the paperback.

Found an interesting replay of one of the signings: I wonder if the woman she mentions is the woman I talked to about the Dallas signing...

Cassy on goodread.com wrote:Normally if I don’t enjoy a book I read in anticipation of an author event, I forgo the event. This time I was so disappointed by this book that I absolutely had to go and give Kevin the chance to redeem himself. (A lady in the audience said Brian doesn’t fly and therefore he only attends events on the West Coast.) It was a small, fun event. As you have likely surmised from the photo above, there were Storm Troopers! Apparently Kevin has written Jedi books and the local Star Wars fan club mobilized for his event. Kevin was friendly and cracked a couple jokes, including how the sequel may be titled “Hellhole: The Musical”. But I sensed he endures the touring/people aspect of his job and would rather be at home writing. I am myself a shy person and can sympathize with this. Yet it does make for a slightly awkward event.

In addition, I got the impression Kevin approaches his writing from a business perspective. He came prepared with promotional materials to pass around: a bookmark about his up-coming publishing seminar, newsletter, and sign up list for emails. The self-promotion was a little overwhelming. He is also big on numbers. He cited how many books he’d signed on the tour, the number of bookmarks he’d given out, bookstores visited in so many days, word counts, books published, up-coming contracts, and so forth. I’d expect any author to take pride in the number of books they have on the shelf. Yet, from Kevin, it felt a bit like a report delivered at a stockholders meeting. And holy moly, he is a writing machine!

Kevin failed to improve my feelings toward his book. But the event did help me pinpoint why I didn’t enjoy it. The book has no soul. It is just another book churned off his production line. Book number 276. (Or whatever. I didn’t actually count.) When he talked about his partnership with Brian (let’s spread the blame a little), it made even more sense to me. They brainstorm together and come up with a tight outline for a book. Then they split up the chapters and go do the writing individually. Once everything is assembled, they each take turns editing the entire book until everything flows and the narrative voice is consistent. To me, this says they take turns dumbing down the book. If either of them writes something brilliant, it is edited out to keep a constant level of blah.

Zing ....

where was that posted ?

to your review :

1) re-write the "ass-raping" parts & post it @ amazon ....
2) wait for a tehKJA Special Fan ...
3) when Conway or the Other Guy tries to discount your review because you are OH
and just a "Kevin-hater", post all your notes from this thread (re-wording all the ass-rapes
and other things amazon could rightfully almost undelete your review for)
4) ????
4a) stop hanging around 4chan, you sick pedofuck ....
5) Profit.

SandRider wrote:Zing ....

where was that posted ?

to your review :

1) re-write the "ass-raping" parts & post it @ amazon ....
2) wait for a tehKJA Special Fan ...
3) when Conway or the Other Guy tries to discount your review because you are OH
and just a "Kevin-hater", post all your notes from this thread (re-wording all the ass-rapes
and other things amazon could rightfully almost undelete your review for)
4) ????
4a) stop hanging around 4chan, you sick pedofuck ....
5) Profit.

Technically 4chan stole that from South Park.

On a lark I looked up sales ranks at the bookstore: Currently Hellhole is listed at a rank about 10,000 under Winds of Dune (paperback) which is itself not selling very well. Paperbacks of The Da Vinci Code are apparently out selling it at about a 4 to 1 ratio.

Ampoliros wrote:On a lark I looked up sales ranks at the bookstore: Currently Hellhole is listed at a rank about 10,000 under Winds of Dune (paperback) which is itself not selling very well. Paperbacks of The Da Vinci Code are apparently out selling it at about a 4 to 1 ratio.

That is what I call comparing bad with worse. Damn that book was bad. I actually never made it past the third chapter and it is now hidden from view in case I have visitors.

You really need to post that review on Amazon.

Ampoliros wrote:I still think a lot of it has to do with his writing style: He arrogantly believes he hikes out 'perfect prose'. He has an 'outline': today I must hike out 12 chapters where A, B, and C happen.

Yeah, it's unbelievably lazy and is doomed to always produce hackneyed, uninspired bullshit.

I decided early on not to put my review on Amazon for certain reasons.

First is that the KJASF accuse us of attacking them on all fronts, which is why I limited my discussion there to the forum and comments.

Second, the reviews for the book that are already there paint the important picture: 10 reviews in a month, spread fairly equally over the star range. There are already 2 2-star reviews there that are not from any member of this site (AFAIK). The more people that come into that opinion without any help from us is just one more feather in our cap.

Third, I really don't care how much they sell of this title.

Fair enough.


(By the way, have we discussed here the meaning of TOR having made available the first 100 pages [almost one-fifth] of the book as an "extended excerpt" sample?

http://www.tor.com/stories/2011/04/hell ... ed-excerpt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

I did post an edited review on Goodreads.com

If any of you are members there, friend me!

Ampoliros wrote:I did post an edited review on Goodreads.com

If any of you are members there, friend me!

Friend request sent!

Rob

Will do, too.

(Was a bit occupied yesterday.)

I know its all age of twitter and shit, but I find it really bad form when a self described editor uses "@" outside of where its needed as code. I vow now I will never use that ever.

TOR discussion is continuing.