posts that I think will get deleted at DN

Rakis · Post by **Rakis** » 22 Oct 2008 23:14

SandRider wrote:
You are so evil, SandChigger....

...and your point is?

trang · Post by **trang** » 23 Oct 2008 00:26

SandChigger wrote:Who really gives a shit if they're open to anyone attempting any sort of Dune fanfic?

You wouldn't be able to publish in book form because of the copyright issues, but there are other ways to get things into people's hands. (And minds.)

Thanks for the roadrunner follow the white line on highway around the corner slam and crash into the wall opinion, appreciate it. Next time tell me how you really feel.

My questions are related to different angles of approach to Cracking the HLP. Allowing others to work in the duniverse without having the legal shackles slammed on them (spanish group for their fan movie comes to mind)especially if its nonprofit.

It gives Duniverse fans another option, and if done right could distract from the nonsense the twinpins have done.

Trang

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 23 Oct 2008 03:54

Sorry, trang, the anger there was NOT directed at you personally; I hope you know that.

I think it's admirable that you want to approach them that way, but I don't think there's much chance of success. The impression I get is that they will try to crush anything anyone else tries to do until they can do it themselves...if ever.

Look at the annotated web version of the books Omph wanted to do.

Or the authoritative special edition versions of the books (like the Vance collection, was it, Omph?). They nixxed both of those in no time.

Or what about a DuneCon? Byron's response: wait until we get this movie deal out of the way and then we'll think about it.

We suggested a contest with the best stories to be published in an annual or biannual anthology.

Etc etc etc. If they ain't gonna profit from it, they ain't gonna support it or let it happen.

So fuck 'em.

(If there ever is a DuneCon and they're the ones running and sponsoring it, y'all can count me out.)

SimonH · Post by **SimonH** » 23 Oct 2008 06:15

add to that the way they treated McNelly.

I was reading an old post on alt.dune that he wanted to ask BH if he could re-release DE, circa '97.

I guess BH said no and instead asked him to sign that letter on the FAQ page? What a prick

Drunken Idaho · Post by **Drunken Idaho** » 23 Oct 2008 16:07

http://www.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 3809#63809

This might get ugly, and may not last too long.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 23 Oct 2008 16:07

Drunken Idaho wrote:http://www.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 3809#63809

This might get ugly, and may not last too long.

Nice link, many of us can't see it.

Drunken Idaho · Post by **Drunken Idaho** » 23 Oct 2008 16:10

Freakzilla wrote:
Drunken Idaho wrote:http://www.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 3809#63809

This might get ugly, and may not last too long.
Nice link, many of us can't see it.

Here is a topic I've posted in the Paul of Dune thread:

DrunkenDuncan wrote:...Paul was not optimistic.

Kevin J. Anderson keeps repeating that at the end of the original book, "Paul Atreides is a charismatic, optimistic hero." He said it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGI65dG8isk (Google talks vid)

Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TttC9ytpEIc (Comic-Con interview)

And here:

http://us.macmillan.com/BookCustomPage. ... entid=9239

If you read Dune, it's easy to see that towards the end of the book, Paul makes the decision to overthrow the emperor. He knows that this is going to lead to a bloody jihad and he was not happy about it. Optimism simply doesn't describe it at all!

Why do you suppose Kev keeps repeating it like that??? It's confounding.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 23 Oct 2008 16:27

Drunken Idaho wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Drunken Idaho wrote:http://www.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 3809#63809

This might get ugly, and may not last too long.
Nice link, many of us can't see it.
Here is a topic I've posted in the Paul of Dune thread:

DrunkenDuncan wrote:...Paul was not optimistic.

Kevin J. Anderson keeps repeating that at the end of the original book, "Paul Atreides is a charismatic, optimistic hero." He said it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGI65dG8isk (Google talks vid)

Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TttC9ytpEIc (Comic-Con interview)

And here:

http://us.macmillan.com/BookCustomPage. ... entid=9239

If you read Dune, it's easy to see that towards the end of the book, Paul makes the decision to overthrow the emperor. He knows that this is going to lead to a bloody jihad and he was not happy about it. Optimism simply doesn't describe it at all!

Why do you suppose Kev keeps repeating it like that??? It's confounding.

Yeah, posting facts that underline KJAs incompetance are a no-no.

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 23 Oct 2008 16:39

When was Paul ever an optimist? I can't recall him ever being and optimist in Dune or DM...

oh, KJA...

Post by **Freakzilla** » 23 Oct 2008 16:48

A Thing of Eternity wrote:When was Paul ever an optimist? I can't recall him ever being and optimist in Dune or DM...

oh, KJA...

Never, he was allways a pessemist.

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 23 Oct 2008 18:16

Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:When was Paul ever an optimist? I can't recall him ever being and optimist in Dune or DM...

oh, KJA...
Never, he was allways a pessemist.

Good good, thought maybe I missed something big there and needed KJA to clue me in.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 23 Oct 2008 18:35

Boredadmin's response:

Well let's be fair here. At the end of Dune the Harkonnens were over-thrown, the Emperor and his army were defeated, and the Guild was cowed due to Paul's grip on the Spice. There was fair reason to be optimistic about some things. The Jihad, I'm sure, weighed heavy in the back of Paul's mind. Plus, there were many people (see Fremen and Atreides) within the Duniverse who WERE optimistic at this point.

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 23 Oct 2008 18:59

Freakzilla wrote:
Drunken Idaho wrote:http://www.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 3809#63809

This might get ugly, and may not last too long.
Nice link, many of us can't see it.

Brother Freak, the first thing I did was register SandRider at DN, which
requires admin approval. About 15 minutes later I registered SandRider
here, which is automatic (which MAY not be such a good idea, eh ?).

Then I started flippin' out for a while over here. So SandRider was, in fact,
PRE-banned on DN. After a few days, Byron blocked my IP. On an
unapproved user who had never set foot on his site.

But, thanks to you nice young people here at this wonderful, friendly site,
I learned the two most important words to be added to my vocabulary in some time:

proxy server.

(I know this has been said before to you - is there some reason this
is not a solution ?)

SimonH · Post by **SimonH** » 23 Oct 2008 19:44

SimonH wrote:add to that the way they treated McNelly.

I was reading an old post on alt.dune that he wanted to ask BH if he could re-release DE, circa '97.

I guess BH said no and instead asked him to sign that letter on the FAQ page? What a prick

here is the link for this.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan. ... 477a4439bc

To all lovers of Frank Herbert's Dune Saga:

In the past year or so I have often been asked about The Dune
Encyclopedia and my relationship, indeed close friendship, with the late
Frank Herbert. Some of you already know that I have willingly sent you
some of my own writing about that friendship for posting in your Web site -
and I have also attempted, so far vainly - to get Berkley/Putnam to put the
DE back into print. I am still trying to do this, by the way, and all of
you can help by inundating Susan Allison at Berkley, 200 Madison Avenue,
NYC, NY, 10016, urging her via snail mail to put it back in print.

Some of you also have asked to use material from the DE either on
your web sites or for some purpose such as making a new game - whatever.
While I am sympathetic to those requests, I have rarely responded to any of
them for several reasons.

The main one is the law of copyright. Copyrights by law are
property, covered under something as exalted as the Fifth Amendment to the
U.S. Constitution. They may not the taken away - or otherwise used - and
the owner may not be deprived of them - except by due process of law - and
then only under extreme circumstances. To use them without permission is -
let's call it correctly - theft.

The Net may be essentially anarchic and free-wheeling, but it is
still subject to the Law - witness the justified uproar over the attempt to
limit free speech on the Net quite recently. We all wanted the law and the
First Amendment to protect us.

When I compiled the Dune Encyclopedia, a clause in my contract with
Berkley (as well as Frank Herbert's own clear statement on the subject made
simultaneously to me and his agent) provided that a certain small
percentage of royalties on the DE would inhere to FH. He owned the Dune
copyrights and his agent wanted to insure that the publication of the DE
would not break Herbert's ownership of them. With typical generosity, Frank
did not want to take away from me any real money that the book might earn.
That small percentage consisted, as I have said, of a mere five percent of
what I would receive on foreign sales or book club sales. Those small
figures were enough to insure legal continuity of copyright in Herbert's
name.

My contract provided, then, that my usage of the Dune materials was
and still is limited to the DE itself. Accordingly, by the terms of my
contract with Berkley, I cannot legally, ethically, or morally grant ANYONE
permission to use materials from the Dune Encyclopedia, even for a
"non-profit" motive. Similarly NO ONE has the right to use them without
the permission of BOTH Berkley and myself, even though I am listed on the
"copyright" page as holder of the copyright to the DE. Of course it is
also equally obvious that NO ONE may legally use materials from the Dune
Chronicles without permission from Berkley/Putnams.

We cannot have it both ways: We cannot insist on the protections
of the First
Amendment guaranteeing us free speech for *ourselves*, and at the same time
ignore or disregard the protection of property rights inherent in the Fifth
Amendment for *others*. We MUST respect the laws of copyright, even on the
Net.

As to the DE itself: I will continue working to get the book back
into print or even seeking - if copyright problems do not prohibit it -
another publisher. In fact, I will shortly write to Brian Herbert, the
"custodian," if I may use that term, of all of his father's copyrights
which are now owned, as I understand it, by some form of family trust, to
see what he can or might do to help solve this problem.

In the meantime, I have been asked by Sphere Galaxy, a website
magazine devoted to science fiction, address (jump page)
www.fantasylink.com, to contribute a regular column to its pages. The
first, entitled "Geoffrey Chaucer and Dune," will appear in the September
Sphere Galaxy Issue. You may write to Sphere asking them to forward me any
questions about the Dune materials or Herbert himself, or the DE, which I
might be able to respond to in the pages of the magazine itself. If you do
so, please address *all* questions to seniorg...@fantasylink.com. I don't
have the time to answer individual questions - sorry.

I hope you appreciate my position. Above all - "Bene gesserit " --
"Let it be done well."

Dr. Willis E. McNelly
Compiler/Author
The Dune Encyclopedia

(bolding by myself)

Rakis · Post by **Rakis** » 23 Oct 2008 22:35

Keep it up, Drunken !

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 23 Oct 2008 23:14

Indeed.

There are people already saying that PoD is a better sequel to Dune than Messiah.

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 23 Oct 2008 23:17

Links ?

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 23 Oct 2008 23:34

Oh, let's not link to that shit hole and raise their traffic, shall we?

DrunkenDuncan wrote:True. Many people were indeed quite optimistic. The Fremen finally have the resources to turn their planet into a paradise. Perhaps the most optimistic individual of the bunch was Irulan, who practically jumped at the opportunity to be wife of an emperor.

Of course a charismatic leader would leave a populace with an overall feeling of optimism. That's why they like him.

But he knows something they don't. He knows that billions are about to die as his Fremen hordes spread the name of Muad'Dib throughout the universe. He can also see that like every other charismatic leader, he will come crashing down again, due to those same optimists who are attracted to his power and become corrupt.

If you really look at Dune, it's not hard to see that Paul is not an optimistic person, even in the end.

It's just that Kevin J. Anderson keeps on hammering in this optimism thing. In fact, that's always part of his reasoning for a "direct sequel" to Dune. He talks about how Frank spent years explaining Dune Messiah to people, and that an explanation is needed for the transformation. This is an absurd notion, in my opinion. I admit that even I found the transition jarring, but I jumped in and I swam. Any explanation that may have been needed, was done in the rest of Frank's books. Surely you can acknowledge that especially in the big picture, Dune Messiah's function is clear.

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 23 Oct 2008 23:40

Chig wrote:Oh, let's not link to that shit hole and raise their traffic, shall we?

Oh, sorry. I thought you meant real people.

Robspierre · Post by **Robspierre** » 24 Oct 2008 00:42

SimonH wrote:
SimonH wrote:add to that the way they treated McNelly.

I was reading an old post on alt.dune that he wanted to ask BH if he could re-release DE, circa '97.

I guess BH said no and instead asked him to sign that letter on the FAQ page? What a prick
here is the link for this.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan. ... 477a4439bc

To all lovers of Frank Herbert's Dune Saga:

In the past year or so I have often been asked about The Dune
Encyclopedia and my relationship, indeed close friendship, with the late
Frank Herbert. Some of you already know that I have willingly sent you
some of my own writing about that friendship for posting in your Web site -
and I have also attempted, so far vainly - to get Berkley/Putnam to put the
DE back into print. I am still trying to do this, by the way, and all of
you can help by inundating Susan Allison at Berkley, 200 Madison Avenue,
NYC, NY, 10016, urging her via snail mail to put it back in print.

Some of you also have asked to use material from the DE either on
your web sites or for some purpose such as making a new game - whatever.
While I am sympathetic to those requests, I have rarely responded to any of
them for several reasons.

The main one is the law of copyright. Copyrights by law are
property, covered under something as exalted as the Fifth Amendment to the
U.S. Constitution. They may not the taken away - or otherwise used - and
the owner may not be deprived of them - except by due process of law - and
then only under extreme circumstances. To use them without permission is -
let's call it correctly - theft.

The Net may be essentially anarchic and free-wheeling, but it is
still subject to the Law - witness the justified uproar over the attempt to
limit free speech on the Net quite recently. We all wanted the law and the
First Amendment to protect us.

When I compiled the Dune Encyclopedia, a clause in my contract with
Berkley (as well as Frank Herbert's own clear statement on the subject made
simultaneously to me and his agent) provided that a certain small
percentage of royalties on the DE would inhere to FH. He owned the Dune
copyrights and his agent wanted to insure that the publication of the DE
would not break Herbert's ownership of them. With typical generosity, Frank
did not want to take away from me any real money that the book might earn.
That small percentage consisted, as I have said, of a mere five percent of
what I would receive on foreign sales or book club sales. Those small
figures were enough to insure legal continuity of copyright in Herbert's
name.

My contract provided, then, that my usage of the Dune materials was
and still is limited to the DE itself. Accordingly, by the terms of my
contract with Berkley, I cannot legally, ethically, or morally grant ANYONE
permission to use materials from the Dune Encyclopedia, even for a
"non-profit" motive. Similarly NO ONE has the right to use them without
the permission of BOTH Berkley and myself, even though I am listed on the
"copyright" page as holder of the copyright to the DE. Of course it is
also equally obvious that NO ONE may legally use materials from the Dune
Chronicles without permission from Berkley/Putnams.

We cannot have it both ways: We cannot insist on the protections
of the First
Amendment guaranteeing us free speech for *ourselves*, and at the same time
ignore or disregard the protection of property rights inherent in the Fifth
Amendment for *others*. We MUST respect the laws of copyright, even on the
Net.

As to the DE itself: I will continue working to get the book back
into print or even seeking - if copyright problems do not prohibit it -
another publisher. In fact, I will shortly write to Brian Herbert, the
"custodian," if I may use that term, of all of his father's copyrights
which are now owned, as I understand it, by some form of family trust, to
see what he can or might do to help solve this problem.

In the meantime, I have been asked by Sphere Galaxy, a website
magazine devoted to science fiction, address (jump page)
www.fantasylink.com, to contribute a regular column to its pages. The
first, entitled "Geoffrey Chaucer and Dune," will appear in the September
Sphere Galaxy Issue. You may write to Sphere asking them to forward me any
questions about the Dune materials or Herbert himself, or the DE, which I
might be able to respond to in the pages of the magazine itself. If you do
so, please address *all* questions to seniorg...@fantasylink.com. I don't
have the time to answer individual questions - sorry.

I hope you appreciate my position. Above all - "Bene gesserit " --
"Let it be done well."

Dr. Willis E. McNelly
Compiler/Author
The Dune Encyclopedia
(bolding by myself)

Us educators amy make use of the Dune Encyclopedia under fair use as long as we give proper credit. Bloody lawyers always forget that.\

Rob

Mr. Teg · Post by **Mr. Teg** » 25 Oct 2008 09:17

TheDukester wrote:
Bearded Kirklander wrote:I sorta imagine it like the desert in the original Star Wars movie.
Lawl!

I think ol' BK is just fucking with us on that one.

Bearded Kirklander at Dumbnovels... wrote:
Then LEAVE and stop spoiling the enjoyment of people who visit this particulare site.

It's arrogant of you to assume you have the right to defend the Legacy of Frank Herbert. Brian is his family, and this is the Official site.

Who do you think YOU are to be actively discouraging anyone who comes here from enjoying ALL of the works surrounding Dune?

You want to whine and complain? Then do it somewhere else.

I swear, I wish they would ban every damn one of you so that fans of all the works did not have to have their experience soiled by your hostility.

This is the official, family run, author supported site, and you should have no right to demonize the works or the authors.

Stop trying to ruin everything and just go spew your garbage somewhere else. You should have no right to do it here, of all places.

Oh, innocent? Just wanted to ask what is a Oh!

Seraphan · Post by **Seraphan** » 25 Oct 2008 09:55

Arrogant? Whine? Complain? Ruin? Narrow minded simpletons are so sad, ignorant to everything except their own dilusions.
He parachutes into the midle of the crime scene and starts ranting about innocence with a selfrightous posture without even knowing what's going on.
Here i am, standing in my position agaisnt KJA because of his raping of literacy and his arrogant stance about it while me and others here get demonized for defending ideas and principles against mediocracy and lack of substance.
Why does the "Dont say bad things about it only good cause you'll hurt our feelings" stupidity endure? Is their mind that polarized?

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 25 Oct 2008 17:59

Posted today, I believe Byron will delete this post - Arnie proves here
PoD was written for junior high school kids :

arnoldo wrote:For those interested the above excerpt scored an 8.5 on the Flesch-Kincaid Reading Scale. .

{excerpt omitted due to length & unreadability - full post Over There}

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 25 Oct 2008 18:45

"Paul of noDune"

What is "PeerGuardian 2" on his taskbar ?

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 25 Oct 2008 19:34

SandRider wrote:What is "PeerGuardian 2" on his taskbar ?

Excerpts from Wikipedia:

PeerGuardian and PeerGuardian 2 are free and open source programs developed by Phoenix Labs. They are capable of blocking incoming and outgoing connections based on IP blocklists. The system is also capable of blocking advertising, spyware, government and educational ranges, depending upon user preferences.

The first public version was released in 2003, at a time when the music industry started to sue individual file sharing users (a change from its previous stance that it would not target consumers with copyright infringement lawsuits).

Although IP addresses of government and business entities are easily added to a list of IP addresses to be blocked, there is no means for PeerGuardian to block access by a government or business using an undocumented IP address to identify people engaged in software piracy or criminal misconduct.

Probably the kind of software you need if you're up to something.