The Board

[A Thing of Eternity]

Don't get me wrong, not that many noobs and preeks have been driven away - but most people lurk for a long time before posting, and I get the impression from some of the ones that do join that they were pretty intimidated and expected to be flamed off soon after joining. Certainly no hordes have dissapeared, but I've seen at least 10 people who've been ridiculed for one of their first few posts and then simply stopped posting.

But I guarantee that if the hostility was cut down a notch (except of course towards assholes like RedBugPest who deserve it) that we would get more people joining and better discussions going.

I'm not saying that people need to be or should be coddled - but being civil certainly won't hurt things, at least until someone does something to deserve being flamed.

If you really want I can hunt around and bump plenty of examples of people being essentially scared off, but I think that's pretty unnecessary.

[TheDukester]

... but most people lurk for a long time before posting, and I get the impression from some of the ones that do join that they were pretty intimidated and expected to be flamed off soon after joining.

Yeah, lurking is a fair point; I'd forgotten about that.

And Conway might have set his cause back by years — he definitely did his part to fan the flames (I still can't get over that signature; what the fuck was he thinking?). But the latest guy seems to be doing well, which I think shows that coming in with A) a half-decent Dune background, B) a sense of humor, and C) no chip on your shoulder, is definitely the way to go. With any luck, a few more like him will sign up soon. And, yes, I'm being serious: I'm not anti-preek; I'm anti-Conway.

[A Thing of Eternity]

... but most people lurk for a long time before posting, and I get the impression from some of the ones that do join that they were pretty intimidated and expected to be flamed off soon after joining.

Yeah, lurking is a fair point; I'd forgotten about that.

And Conway might have set his cause back by years — he definitely did his part to fan the flames (I still can't get over that signature; what the fuck was he thinking?). But the latest guy seems to be doing well, which I think shows that coming in with A) a half-decent Dune background, B) a sense of humor, and C) no chip on your shoulder, is definitely the way to go. With any luck, a few more like him will sign up soon. And, yes, I'm being serious: I'm not anti-preek; I'm anti-Conway.

Conway can fuck off, he dissapointed me, and you probably have a pretty good idea how low my expectations were to begin with. And yeah, that sig line makes me a little bit physically ill.

I like the new guy too, more than willing to actually debate his point of view, but doesn't take it personally when someone dissagrees. He (I assume "he") is part of why I made that post, if we can keep him around it might snowball into more people like him joining, which would be great. I'd hate to see him get pissed off at being needlessly flamed and leave because of it.

[SandRider]

[A Thing of Eternity]

What?

[SandRider]

[TheDukester]

I sense ... bourbon!

[SandRider]

[A Thing of Eternity]

Yup.

[TheDukester]

No 6-man game to go to tonight. He's trying to replace it with booze.

Pace yourself, SR! It's only like 5 p.m. out there!

[SandRider]

[A Thing of Eternity]

Another good replacement for watching football is watching paint dry. Booze is obviously better than both though!

[SandRider]

[Omphalos]

gonna bring up the forum re-ordering issue again -

the Dune Discussion section has dead boards -
compile & compress ?

Ghafla is too broad - addition of Politics helped greatly.




just sayin' ...

I still haven't figured out how to ban myself from the politics threads.

[SandRider]

[Freakzilla]

Hey, some people like it!

[GamePlayer]

Don't get me wrong, not that many noobs and preeks have been driven away - but most people lurk for a long time before posting, and I get the impression from some of the ones that do join that they were pretty intimidated and expected to be flamed off soon after joining. Certainly no hordes have dissapeared, but I've seen at least 10 people who've been ridiculed for one of their first few posts and then simply stopped posting.

But I guarantee that if the hostility was cut down a notch (except of course towards assholes like RedBugPest who deserve it) that we would get more people joining and better discussions going.

I'm not saying that people need to be or should be coddled - but being civil certainly won't hurt things, at least until someone does something to deserve being flamed.

If you really want I can hunt around and bump plenty of examples of people being essentially scared off, but I think that's pretty unnecessary.

I think this community needs to collectively make up it's mind what it wants.

For the last six months talk about attracting/converting preqs is increasing and taking over as the raison d'être for this forum. This very same community decried preqs over on Dumbnovels, crying bloody murder when they censored the OH and any dissenting opinion. Everything's since gone 180 and now this forum can't get enough preqs, going so far as to declare it's sole purpose as nothing else but a preq-converting vehicle.

Now some may say Jacurutu was supposed to be open for one and all, OH and preq alike. Some say Jacurutu was MEANT to be a place where ALL Dune fans could congregate. In the eyes oif the online community, I seriously doubt most even bother to entertain a distinction between what was INTENDED for Jacurutu and what Jacurutu ACTUALLY BECAME. Jacurutu is an OH stronghold, always has been, and the preqs know that. The Jacurutu community culture was created by the members that joined and if converting preqs is the sole function of this board, it's succeeding only as a flop house for disillusioned ex-DN members.

Want the board culture to change? It appears a decision needs to be made before any change can happen.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Who said conversion was the sole purpose of this forum?

This is a Dune forum. I want people to talk about Dune. The issue I'm talking about in that post is ALL newbies being intimidated, not just preeks. I don't see any reason to actively exclude people with less Dune knowledge or differing opinions. I don't think that general opinion has done any kind of 180 - just that the people who've always been interested in all sides of conversation are now making a point of saying it, heck, I've been saying it since day one.

We still will cry bloody murder at being censored - what does that have to do at all with this issue? It was never the general preek population censoring us, it was the HLP.

[Freakzilla]

Being an OH stronghold doesn't exclude anyone. Nobody is forcing you to hold hands and sing kum-by-ya with the preeks. But instead of ripping them apart and insulting them when they come here we could show them the light.

I'd rather light a candle than curse your darkness.

[SandChigger]

Fuck the HLP. Fuck KJA. Fuck preeqs.

Fuck fuzzy-wuzzy feel-good bullshit. Grow a pair and a brain or keep quiet.

[Freakzilla]

Fuck the HLP. Fuck KJA. Fuck preeqs.

Fuck fuzzy-wuzzy feel-good bullshit. Grow a pair and a brain or keep quiet.

I love everybody... and you're next!

[Eyes High]

Fuck the HLP. Fuck KJA. Fuck preeqs.

Fuck fuzzy-wuzzy feel-good bullshit. Grow a pair and a brain or keep quiet.

But fuzzy-wuzzy feels so good....

[GamePlayer]

Who said conversion was the sole purpose of this forum?

This is a Dune forum. I want people to talk about Dune. The issue I'm talking about in that post is ALL newbies being intimidated, not just preeks. I don't see any reason to actively exclude people with less Dune knowledge or differing opinions. I don't think that general opinion has done any kind of 180 - just that the people who've always been interested in all sides of conversation are now making a point of saying it, heck, I've been saying it since day one.

We still will cry bloody murder at being censored - what does that have to do at all with this issue? It was never the general preek population censoring us, it was the HLP.

I'm not sure who it was, but someone just recently said there was little point in being here unless we were converting preqs. And the attitude that carried over here from DN/Arrakeen has EVERYTHING to do with the issue. That attitude set the community culture here from day one and regardless of what has been intended, Jacurutu has become what it is. No one appears to be making any distinction about Jacurutu except those of us on Jacurutu. That's not how reputation works.

When a critic speaks about the hostility on Jacurutu, I'm sensing a LOT of guilt coming out due to that opinion. Doesn't matter if that criticism is accurate or not, the fact that some here are concerned about it shows some agree. All I'm saying is the difference between what some want for Jacurutu's reputation and the actual reputation is rather significant. I'm neither for nor against any change, but if change is what some here want then everyone should be on board. Otherwise, results are going to be mixed, like they've been thus far. If I'm reading the situation correctly, that is a 180 from the way the community has been conducted to date. Nothing wrong with change (especially for the better), but let's be honest with ourselves most of all.

Being an OH stronghold doesn't exclude anyone. Nobody is forcing you to hold hands and sing kum-by-ya with the preeks. But instead of ripping them apart and insulting them when they come here we could show them the light.

I'd rather light a candle than curse your darkness.

Take in all that I said, not just parts. No one is suggesting exclusion, wars or bleeding hearts. But let's not have any illusions. There's obvious desire for some kind of change, so perhaps best to have everyone on the same page.

[Freakzilla]

Who said conversion was the sole purpose of this forum?

This is a Dune forum. I want people to talk about Dune. The issue I'm talking about in that post is ALL newbies being intimidated, not just preeks. I don't see any reason to actively exclude people with less Dune knowledge or differing opinions. I don't think that general opinion has done any kind of 180 - just that the people who've always been interested in all sides of conversation are now making a point of saying it, heck, I've been saying it since day one.

We still will cry bloody murder at being censored - what does that have to do at all with this issue? It was never the general preek population censoring us, it was the HLP.

I'm not sure who it was, but someone just recently said there was little point in being here unless we were converting preqs.

That was me.

And the attitude that carried over here from DN/Arrakeen has EVERYTHING to do with the issue. That attitude set the community culture here from day one and regardless of what has been intended, Jacurutu has become what it is. No one appears to be making any distinction about Jacurutu except those of us on Jacurutu. That's not how reputation works.

When a critic speaks about the hostility on Jacurutu, I'm sensing a LOT of guilt coming out due to that opinion. Doesn't matter if that criticism is accurate or not, the fact that some here are concerned about it shows some agree. All I'm saying is the difference between what some want for Jacurutu's reputation and the actual reputation is rather significant. I'm neither for nor against any change, but if change is what some here want then everyone should be on board. Otherwise, results are going to be mixed, like they've been thus far. If I'm reading the situation correctly, that is a 180 from the way the community has been conducted to date. Nothing wrong with change (especially for the better), but let's be honest with ourselves most of all.

Being an OH stronghold doesn't exclude anyone. Nobody is forcing you to hold hands and sing kum-by-ya with the preeks. But instead of ripping them apart and insulting them when they come here we could show them the light.

I'd rather light a candle than curse your darkness.

Take in all that I said, not just parts. No one is suggesting exclusion, wars or bleeding hearts. But let's not have any illusions. There's obvious desire for some kind of change, so perhaps best to have everyone on the same page.

I started this forum because I've always wanted to. The events that unfolded at DN/Arrakeen only made the timing right. It has been my observation that there can be only one active, successful Dune forum at a time. I saw opportunity and took advantage of it. I thought I made all this clear from the begining. The attitude carried over is the HLPs doing, not mine. I made some basic rules and set up some topics. Current evens in Dune fandom dictate what goes on here and even though I may not like it, I'm not going to try to stop it. I suppose I do feel guilty about not having time to spark more discussion about FH's Dune but I just don't have the time to focus on it that much, I can only do a little at a time.

I'm optomistic that KJA and BH will soon fade into obscurity and we can get back to discussing FH's Dune, but for now events have dictated the cause.

To be honest, I'm not at all sure what your problem with Jacurutu is. I'm not forcing anyone to post here one way or another, but personal attacks are against the rules. When it gets out of hand I'll bitch about it.

If you have suggestions on how to improve things, let's hear it.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Who said conversion was the sole purpose of this forum?

This is a Dune forum. I want people to talk about Dune. The issue I'm talking about in that post is ALL newbies being intimidated, not just preeks. I don't see any reason to actively exclude people with less Dune knowledge or differing opinions. I don't think that general opinion has done any kind of 180 - just that the people who've always been interested in all sides of conversation are now making a point of saying it, heck, I've been saying it since day one.

We still will cry bloody murder at being censored - what does that have to do at all with this issue? It was never the general preek population censoring us, it was the HLP.

I'm not sure who it was, but someone just recently said there was little point in being here unless we were converting preqs. And the attitude that carried over here from DN/Arrakeen has EVERYTHING to do with the issue. That attitude set the community culture here from day one and regardless of what has been intended, Jacurutu has become what it is. No one appears to be making any distinction about Jacurutu except those of us on Jacurutu. That's not how reputation works.

When a critic speaks about the hostility on Jacurutu, I'm sensing a LOT of guilt coming out due to that opinion. Doesn't matter if that criticism is accurate or not, the fact that some here are concerned about it shows some agree. All I'm saying is the difference between what some want for Jacurutu's reputation and the actual reputation is rather significant. I'm neither for nor against any change, but if change is what some here want then everyone should be on board. Otherwise, results are going to be mixed, like they've been thus far. If I'm reading the situation correctly, that is a 180 from the way the community has been conducted to date. Nothing wrong with change (especially for the better), but let's be honest with ourselves most of all.

Being an OH stronghold doesn't exclude anyone. Nobody is forcing you to hold hands and sing kum-by-ya with the preeks. But instead of ripping them apart and insulting them when they come here we could show them the light.

I'd rather light a candle than curse your darkness.

Take in all that I said, not just parts. No one is suggesting exclusion, wars or bleeding hearts. But let's not have any illusions. There's obvious desire for some kind of change, so perhaps best to have everyone on the same page.

I get what you're saying, but I think you're over-estimating how much change anyone actually is expecting, and I don't think that anyone is under the illusion that we can change our reputation. That would take a long time, and I'm not at all embarassed about our rep, we earned it and we earned the right to be the way we are without any appologies.

I doubt everyone would ever all be on the same page enough to actually effect a major change here, and I don't really want a real major change anyways. The best I hope for is for people to not immediately slam preeks just for being preeks, which has actually been improving a bit lately all by itself. I think you're right that it would be a big change from past behaviour to have everyone be nice to all preeks, but I don't think the level of censorship that would be required to make this into a place that truly isn't hostile to preeks would be acceptable to anyone here, nobody wants this place to be DN.

You're right that we have to be realistic about just how much change is possible without having everyone in agreement, but I think that you see us all expecting a 180, which is not at all what I expect. I am realistic about this - the way that the new guy has been treated is as good as it gets in all likelihood, and I don't think it's being un-realistic for some of us to just continue to promote the kind of conduct that is already happening.