Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

SandChigger wrote:So maybe it's another of those "Frank wrote that scene for the movie, but we decided to put it into the books. FRANK wrote it, after all, and we thought it was dramatic. If the fact it contradicts two little passages in Dune keeps you awake at night, then maybe my friend you need to get a life" things?

Clearly.

I'd honestly like to talk to that Dune "expert" who proof reads their books for mistakes. Has anyone confirmed that he actually exists? Doesn't seem like he knows a whole hell of a lot about Dune.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

SandChigger wrote:So maybe it's another of those "Frank wrote that scene for the movie, but we decided to put it into the books. FRANK wrote it, after all, and we thought it was dramatic. If the fact it contradicts two little passages in Dune keeps you awake at night, then maybe my friend you need to get a life" things?

Clearly.

I'd honestly like to talk to that Dune "expert" who proof reads their books for mistakes. Has anyone confirmed that he actually exists? Doesn't seem like he knows a whole hell of a lot about Dune.

This has been my gripe all along. If we can find all these mistakes, surely Pinky & The Brian, who are the biggest Dune fans in the Known Universe, should be able to as well.

Freakzilla wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

SandChigger wrote:So maybe it's another of those "Frank wrote that scene for the movie, but we decided to put it into the books. FRANK wrote it, after all, and we thought it was dramatic. If the fact it contradicts two little passages in Dune keeps you awake at night, then maybe my friend you need to get a life" things?

Clearly.

I'd honestly like to talk to that Dune "expert" who proof reads their books for mistakes. Has anyone confirmed that he actually exists? Doesn't seem like he knows a whole hell of a lot about Dune.

This has been my gripe all along. If we can find all these mistakes, surely Pinky & The Brian, who are the biggest Dune fans in the Known Universe, should be able to as well.

No kidding - if any other author was stepping into such sacred ground they'd have a concordance (a real one) and would have people checking every passage against the originals. Mistakes would still be made of course, even FH made some - but a real author would admit the mistake, thank whoever found it and correct it in later editions.

Even barring all that - the Hack goes out of his way to hire a "Dune Expert" to do exactly what we're talking about right now - and that "expert" doesn't catch even the biggest mistakes. Blarring, obvious mistakes, mistakes that even I (having only read the series once at the time I started with the new books) cought while casually reading the new books - seriously - do they even have such a person or are they full of shit?

A Thing of Eternity wrote:No kidding - if any other author was stepping into such sacred ground they'd have a concordance (a real one) and would have people checking every passage against the originals.

This touches upon a subject we discussed a few weeks ago: the love, care, and respect shown by, for example, J.R.R.'s Tolkien's literary heirs; and the unseemly, cynical lunge for cash perpetrated by Frank Herbert's twisted family.

Honestly, all hyperbole aside, it is simply shameful.

A Thing of Eternity wrote: - seriously - do they even have such a person or are they full of shit?

They are full of shit. Nobody overlooks that many blunders.

TheDukester wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:No kidding - if any other author was stepping into such sacred ground they'd have a concordance (a real one) and would have people checking every passage against the originals.

This touches upon a subject we discussed a few weeks ago: the love, care, and respect shown by, for example, J.R.R.'s Tolkien's literary heirs; and the unseemly, cynical lunge for cash perpetrated by Frank Herbert's twisted family.

Honestly, all hyperbole aside, it is simply shameful.

Someone else had mentioned that Ayn Rand's estate handled things the same way releasing hundreds of pages of notes and letters for her fans.

But gotta like Harris who wrote Hannibal Rising so no one else could write the prequel.

Serkanner wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote: - seriously - do they even have such a person or are they full of shit?

They are full of shit. Nobody overlooks that many blunders.

I agree.

A high school chearleader could do a better job.

Freakzilla wrote:A high school chearleader could do a better job.

A highschool cheerleader could do alll kindsa jobs better.

Freakzilla wrote:A high school chearleader could do a better job.

The Official Jacurutu Cheerleader

Ooooh, bouncy!

There's no way the HLP would have someone fact checking the prequels. If they did, said person might figure out that KJA/BH don't have a fucking clue what they are doing.

Freakzilla wrote:Ooooh, bouncy!

Bouncy is always good.

Ahem...the only time there could be any fact-checking going on is when they pass the manuscript around to Kevin's "readers". (And who doesn't think they're just a bunch of ass-kissing yes-men.) If Byron was just reading PoD right before it hit the stores, you can be fairly certain that the other members of the HLP hadn't seen it either.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:A highschool cheerleader could do alll kindsa jobs better.

True, but I suspect Kevin can do phenomenal things with that mouth of his and his innate capacity to just suck out loud.

Like...giving you a tonsillectomy without going through your mouth to get at 'em.

SandChigger wrote:True, but I suspect Kevin can do phenomenal things with that mouth of his and his innate capacity to just suck out loud.

Like...giving you a tonsillectomy without going through your mouth to get at 'em.

If there was any chance of me believing in God its gone now.

SandChigger wrote:

Ahem...the only time there could be any fact-checking going on is when they pass the manuscript around to Kevin's "readers". (And who doesn't think they're just a bunch of ass-kissing yes-men.) If Byron was just reading PoD right before it hit the stores, you can be fairly certain that the other members of the HLP hadn't seen it either.

So you agree - this Dune expert is fake? Even a yes-man "expert" fact checker would, I imagine, still unearth most of the mistakes we do, so I don't think there is much chance that there actually is any "expert".

A Thing of Eternity wrote:So you agree - this Dune expert is fake?

Does the Pope shit in the woods?

Freakzilla wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:So you agree - this Dune expert is fake?

Does the Pope shit in the woods?

Not that I'm aware of...

A Thing of Eternity wrote:So you agree - this Dune expert is fake?

100-percent fabrication.

Let's think about this: these are the same people that tell 18 different versions of the "notes" story, the same people that encourage shilling/deletion of reviews at Amazon, and the same people who don't even blink when they completely lie through their teeth about "rave, professional" reviews. It's not a stretch to imagine them creating this alleged "Dune expert" out of thin air.

The HLP's two defining characteristics are greed and a very casual relationship with the truth. Oh, and doing everything Kevin J. Anderson says, of course ...

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:So you agree - this Dune expert is fake?

Does the Pope shit in the woods?

Not that I'm aware of...

It's a combination of two common rhetorical affirmations; "does a bear shit in the woods" and "is the pope catholic?".

Sorry for the confusion, I thought everyone had heard that.

Freakzilla wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:So you agree - this Dune expert is fake?

Does the Pope shit in the woods?

Not that I'm aware of...

It's a combination of two common rhetorical affirmations; "does a bear shit in the woods" and "is the pope catholic?".

Sorry for the confusion, I thought everyone had heard that.

I'm young, and there are so many expressions to learn.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

SandChigger wrote:

Ahem...the only time there could be any fact-checking going on is when they pass the manuscript around to Kevin's "readers". (And who doesn't think they're just a bunch of ass-kissing yes-men.) If Byron was just reading PoD right before it hit the stores, you can be fairly certain that the other members of the HLP hadn't seen it either.

So you agree - this Dune expert is fake? Even a yes-man "expert" fact checker would, I imagine, still unearth most of the mistakes we do, so I don't think there is much chance that there actually is any "expert".

OK, if we're talking about Dr Torkos, I think he's fairly on the level as far as making chronologies of science fiction universes goes. It seems to be a hobby of his, and one that he takes seriously. I believe Omph has corresponded with him directly (and I've been meaning to write him for a while but just haven't gotten 'round to it).

As far as Torkos being called a "Dune expert" (IIRC it was actually something more like "Dune Ph.D.". Omph?), that was something Kevin threw out to counter a complaint about their factual accuracy with respect to the original books. I believe Torkos completely denied being a "Dune Ph.D." expert. He's an eye doctor (ear, nose & throat, maybe? I'd go to him for the tonsils before Kev! ), I think.

We should be careful not to create too much collateral damage. I suspect that Torkos incorporated a lot of things in his timeline at the suggestion of Kevin and the other guy. Or they could have "fixed" it a bit after they got it from him.

He is also thanked somewhere (in Sadworms?) for doing additional fact-checking. But you know the standard professional caveat as far as that goes, right?

Anyway, the real problem here is this: WHY THE HELL SHOULD THE TWO BIGGEST DUNE FANS IN THE WORLD NEED SOMEONE ELSE TO DO THEIR FACT-CHECKING FOR THEM?!

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:So you agree - this Dune expert is fake?

Does the Pope shit in the woods?

Not that I'm aware of...

It's a combination of two common rhetorical affirmations; "does a bear shit in the woods" and "is the pope catholic?".

Sorry for the confusion, I thought everyone had heard that.

I'm young, and there are so many expressions to learn.

Admitting ignorance is the first step...

Oooh I think I've infected SC with the CAPS-Virus!

Yep, I'm back after a week-long hiatus to NYC.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

SandChigger wrote:

Ahem...the only time there could be any fact-checking going on is when they pass the manuscript around to Kevin's "readers". (And who doesn't think they're just a bunch of ass-kissing yes-men.) If Byron was just reading PoD right before it hit the stores, you can be fairly certain that the other members of the HLP hadn't seen it either.

So you agree - this Dune expert is fake? Even a yes-man "expert" fact checker would, I imagine, still unearth most of the mistakes we do, so I don't think there is much chance that there actually is any "expert".

I followed up on this when the ass that roared first made the claim that he had a "Dune phd" on staff. Turns out its the eye doctor, Atilla Torkous. Torukos wrote the Dune timeline that they have been passing around, and he at one point did earn a PhD, but he is not a Dune scholar, he fact checked nothing, his PhD is in a discipline other than literature, and he provided no feedback to KJA whatsoever. that, my friends, is straight from the horse's mouth. He is a really nice guy, but a reliable book proofer he is not, and does not want to be.

As to his other proofers, I dont know who they are. Word on the street is that David Hartwell was involved in editing Sandworms and Hunters. I dont know the man (yet) but I know his work and respect it a great deal. I wish I could prove that was a lie too, but I have not been able to yet. I do know that Harttwell was also involved at Campbell's request with Dune as well.