Posted: 21 Oct 2008 11:14
I thought that was a nice touch. CH,SandChigger wrote:I'm sorry, but...all this fuss over someone who didn't know or recognize the word "sietch"?
Please....
Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ
DUNE DISCUSSION FORUM FOR ORTHODOX HERBERTARIANS
http://www.jacurutu.com/
posts that I think will get deleted at DN
Page 8 of 63
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 11:44
He would have no fair excuse to put us down at DN, no example of us being (allegedly) close-minded.TheDukester wrote:Better off? Why? I'm being serious here. In what ways, exactly, would we be "better off"?Lundse wrote:... we would all be better of welcoming his inputs and then ignoring it when they dried up.
You know what I mean - maybe he did not want to try to discuss with people who question his motives and call him idiot. I wouldn't either, in the long run.TheDukester wrote:He left of his own accord. Big difference.Lundse wrote:... driven him off
Again, a number of people responded in a civil fashion, myself included (I wound enjoy talking about the new series of audiobooks with someone). And, again, it was at this point that he chose to leave. Strange, huh?TheDukester wrote:Lundse wrote:How about telling the guy why you feel as you feel instead of just chewing him out because he does not feel the same?
True, a lot of people did respond civilly. And he might very well have left because he had nothing more to say (using the insults as an excuse)...
As I said, I think this is probably misrepresenting his reasons, and I do not really blame him for leaving. But it is a lot of fuss over nothing...TheDukester wrote:My God, all of this worry over a guy who is either a ringer or else some incredibly sensitive goober who left right when he heard "welcome."
And is something stopping him from coming back here? No? I didn't think so.
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 11:50
Re. BK's own involvement and choice to leave, then I do not think we will agree. I do not find his actions here damning, nor do I blame him for leavning.GamePlayer wrote:Okay, let's get some perspective here.
The guy is now gone, so all bets are off. He's run wild indicting everyone here for a "bad experience" in which he made every effort to worsen and didn't lift a finger to improve. HE DIDN'T EVEN TRY! That alone speak volumes; the circumstances are irrelevant at that point.
I'd also ask, where's the personal responsibility? Why the hell doesn't a Dune fan know what "seitch" means? Going a step further, the guy spends all of a day in our forum and figures he's expert enough to badmouth Jacurutu, declaring "fanatic", spouting crap about how awful the place is and EVERYONE in it...because he's a "Dune fan" that was laughed at when he didn't know what a "seitch" was. Are you fucking kidding me? I know a fella that acts like that, claiming everyone with a harsh opinion of him/his work is a terrorist...
Next, the "paranoia" issue. Honestly, I'd have to give a shit to be paranoid and I don't. But just so we're clear, we have the admin of Dumbnovels admitting he lurks Dune fan forums so he can ban bad members. That's not OUR "paranoia"; that's called a disturbed cyber stalking administrator of a failing message board.
Truth is, there isn't a lot here for prequel fans: that's the point. If you want to praise the prequels, adore KJA and talk up BH, there's Dumbnovels and author blawgs. We can't praise Frank Herbert and denounce prequels on DN, so we have Jacurutu. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
No apologies. Remember the wise words of RATM: anger is a gift
Re. paranoia then I was only talking about the speculations on BK being some kind of spy or paid envoy. Nothing in Byron's behaviour points toward BK being one thing or the other (nor towards BK being Byron, who has nothing to gain by BKs actions here).
Re. Jacurutu as not a place for prequelites...
True. But I will do my best not to antagonize them if they pop by, all the same. Still hoping against hope to have that proper discussion with one of them...
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 11:57
Today's post should convince all & lay bare the plan.Bearded Kirklander wrote:On this particular site, I think a "Turn The Other Cheek" policy by OH (Canon) members who vehemently oppose non-canon works would be welcome, and respectful.
There are other places that are not official and are not actually run and supported by family members and sanctioned authors, and it would seem to be more appropriate to publicly air their grievances at those other sites instead of doing so here.
My perception of the official site is that it should be a Safe Haven for fans of the Dune universe who may not wish to differentiate between Canon and Non-Canon works.
This site may also be different because it is not only a place for discussion, but for promotion of the entire line of Dune material. There is a commercial component involved, and I feel that should be understood and factored in as well.
If people choose to participate here, I believe that it should be with those caveats and boundaries in mind.
Those who do not wish to recognize those limits are free, at any time, to start their own sites with their own rules. A place where they can express their concerns and even their outrage in a public venue. A place where they can decide who is welcome and who is not, what comments are welcome and what comments are not, all without having to acknowledge any commercial or familial interests.
Just one man's take on it.
Happy reading.
Also, if BK is in fact Byron, then he is really dumber that you all believe.
www.jacurutu.com is still the newest registered member of DN, before and after the above post.
(perhaps Byron wrote it and had someone else post it while he's at work ?)
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 12:00
I welcome anyone who wants to discuss Dune but if they want to argue that the new books are anywhere near the same class as FH's they're in for an uphill battle.Lundse wrote:Re. Jacurutu as not a place for prequelites...
True. But I will do my best not to antagonize them if they pop by, all the same. Still hoping against hope to have that proper discussion with one of them...
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 12:11
Exactly... As much as I despise the prequels, I don't think its right to antagonize every NuDune fan that comes along. Hell, I'll talk about why the prequels/sequels suck with them, but i will do it pointedly and civilly. I think I was the first to question BK's motives on DN, but I had good reason to. However, unless there is proof of such accusations, its safe to assume he's innocent.Lundse wrote: Re. Jacurutu as not a place for prequelites...
True. But I will do my best not to antagonize them if they pop by, all the same. Still hoping against hope to have that proper discussion with one of them...
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 12:13
He should have thrown some sand in the air. 
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 12:27
Or grown a pair. Either way.
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 12:42
Being called a fanatic doesn't offend me. I admit it.
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 13:03
As long as we're being honest, I gotta say ... this doesn't bother me at all. Not one bit.Baraka Bryan wrote:... they'll label us fanatics and despise our views.
I've yet to meet my first preek whose views I had even an ounce of respect for. I'm sure they are out there; I just haven't run into them (I'm thinking of well-spoken people like the woman who wrote the review at Amazon and then was perfectly capable of defending her views. She's not a preek, per se, but that's the type of person whose views would carry some weight).
I use "lowest common denominator" quite a bit when talking about preeks, but the sad part is that it's more true than I first realized. These are people who do not want to be challenged when they read; they want McDune in easy-to-digest, repetitive chapters full of "action."
So why exactly should I give a shit what that horde of mental midgets thinks? Why would their opinions mean anything to me?
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 13:06
This is all the democrats' fault. 
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 13:07
Slow down people! We can't have three people being level headed all at once, this place might implode!Baraka Bryan wrote:Drunken Idaho wrote:Exactly... As much as I despise the prequels, I don't think its right to antagonize every NuDune fan that comes along. Hell, I'll talk about why the prequels/sequels suck with them, but i will do it pointedly and civilly. I think I was the first to question BK's motives on DN, but I had good reason to. However, unless there is proof of such accusations, its safe to assume he's innocent.Lundse wrote: Re. Jacurutu as not a place for prequelites...
True. But I will do my best not to antagonize them if they pop by, all the same. Still hoping against hope to have that proper discussion with one of them...
i agree.... if people simply come off as haters everytime someone comes in saying that those books have even some merit they'll label us fanatics and despise our views. being welcoming and telling them here are the 1000s of examples of mistakes / contradictions / retardedness in the nu-books they'll be more apt to see the truth and be forced to restrain their hatred like us
On a serious note, there are quite a few level headed people here. My take on insulting newbies would be:
Why prove Byron and the other whiners right? I personally find it much more satisfying to take a little bit of the high road and watch people flail around hopelessly trying to defend this new junk. The second I start flinging childish insults (oh, and I'm not saying I haven't) is the second I loose whatever ground I was gaining.
Look at when Lundse showed up - lots of people jumped right on the insult wagon simply because he wasn't foaming at the mouth to call the new books and their fans names. Made us look pretty sad as a lot that day.
That's how my mind works. I have no interest in out-insulting fans of the new books, that achieves nothing; I'm out to out-argue them, which brings me a little smile. (that said I do sometime break down and start insulting after being frustrated with circular responses and bullshit for days)
Though I do agree that BK is at the very least a flake, and at the worst Byron or Arnoldo in puppet form.
And I'm with Freak, I think (as far as literature goes) most of us pretty much meet the definition of fanatics. So I'm not going to get upset when someone labels me correctly, as long as I spend time arguing with people about a book written 40 years ago on the bloody net I can't really claim to be anything other than a fanatic of that book.
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 13:11
Freakzilla wrote:I thought that was a nice touch. CH,SandChigger wrote:I'm sorry, but...all this fuss over someone who didn't know or recognize the word "sietch"?
Please....
That's going down as one of the great all time Preeq comments.
Also, I think that anyone who posts about liking the new books is actually Byron or Kevin. It's just too unbelievable that more than those two could make some of those statements without being sarcastic (except me of course).
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 15:26
boardadmin wrote:I think they should try and stick to Frank's vision of Dune. It was basically a desolate backwater planet that just happened to have the most valuable substance in the universe on it. That was the only reason anyone gave a damn about the place. That's the only reason Arrakeen was built. And it would've been a functional city, not audacious in any way (until Alia and Paul started building).Muad'Dib56 wrote:The movies picture arrakeen(during Muad'Dibs years as emperor) as all, ancient. I picture Arrakeen with an ancient style, but mixed with modern, like projectors showing commercials, stores selling technological gadgets, groundcars, and that stuff...
Dont u agree?
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 15:29
Bearded Kirklander wrote:I sorta imagine it like the desert in the original Star Wars movie.
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 16:06
Yeah, but seriously, when was the last time someone called you an idiot?Lundse wrote:You know what I mean - maybe he did not want to try to discuss with people who question his motives and call him idiot. I wouldn't either, in the long run.
Re SandRider quotes:
Dune IS Star Wars. Bene Gesserit ARE Jedi in dresses. Prescience IS the Force. Kirk is Spock. Black is White. Republicans are Democrats. Ah! Ah! Aaaaaaaaaaaah!
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 16:48
Amazing. I just watched Bryon kill a post with my own eyes.
I spotted it earlier, a new user with one post and a well-laid out
and familar argument about the "canon" issue with the new books.
I thought, well, that won't stand.
Went over a minute ago, and saw boredadmin .....
Went to the thread - there's that post ....
Hit refresh - post is gone
I'm not mad anymore, guys ....
Just amused ...
Thanks for the education...
I spotted it earlier, a new user with one post and a well-laid out
and familar argument about the "canon" issue with the new books.
I thought, well, that won't stand.
Went over a minute ago, and saw boredadmin .....
Went to the thread - there's that post ....
Hit refresh - post is gone
I'm not mad anymore, guys ....
Just amused ...
Thanks for the education...
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 16:51
It's kinda like a game sometimes, I always try to guess which ones will get deleted and how quickly. A sad, sad game.SandRider wrote:Amazing. I just watched Bryon kill a post with my own eyes.
I spotted it earlier, a new user with one post and a well-laid out
and familar argument about the "canon" issue with the new books.
I thought, well, that won't stand.
Went over a minute ago, and saw boredadmin .....
Went to the thread - there's that post ....
Hit refresh - post is gone
I'm not mad anymore, guys ....
Just amused ...
Thanks for the education...
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 16:55
The only thing you can count on there is that this isn't Byron's full time job and sometimes he will go a couple of days before getting around to deleting your post.
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 18:27
What was his fulltime job again? Writer? Film/Book Critic?
Oh, yeah, ER nurse.
Oh, yeah, ER nurse.
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 19:25
Lawl!Bearded Kirklander wrote:I sorta imagine it like the desert in the original Star Wars movie.
I think ol' BK is just fucking with us on that one.
Posted: 21 Oct 2008 22:01
Oh, puh-lease.
The opinions of KJA, BH, and Byron on the Dune fanbase have about as much merit as the prequels do as literature. If they were truly mature, dispassionate and guilt free, they'd have no need for labels like "fanatic" and "talifan". When they attack their critics for nothing more the harsh criticism, it only proves how guilty they're really feeling about what they've done. You don't spout off venomous hatred at your own customers if you're right in the head.
It's like Uwe Boll challenging film critics to a boxing match; it's not going to make anyone like his movies more.
As for Jacurutu, this is far from some home of hostile heathens that Dumbnovels apologists may make it out to be. Anyone who believes Jacurutu is such a bad place doesn't know message boards from their own ass. With luck, BK will at least learn from his experience here. He's not going to get anything but patronizing complacency out of Dumbnovels.
And quite frankly, people are people. Not everyone is going to make the right choice, have the right timing, understand the situation nor respond intelligently. Perhaps all things were not in BK's favor when he arrived here, but he made all the wrong choices. At the end of the day all we can be accused of is harsh opinion. BK has to live with the fact he has about as much guts as Biff Loman.
The opinions of KJA, BH, and Byron on the Dune fanbase have about as much merit as the prequels do as literature. If they were truly mature, dispassionate and guilt free, they'd have no need for labels like "fanatic" and "talifan". When they attack their critics for nothing more the harsh criticism, it only proves how guilty they're really feeling about what they've done. You don't spout off venomous hatred at your own customers if you're right in the head.
It's like Uwe Boll challenging film critics to a boxing match; it's not going to make anyone like his movies more.
As for Jacurutu, this is far from some home of hostile heathens that Dumbnovels apologists may make it out to be. Anyone who believes Jacurutu is such a bad place doesn't know message boards from their own ass. With luck, BK will at least learn from his experience here. He's not going to get anything but patronizing complacency out of Dumbnovels.
And quite frankly, people are people. Not everyone is going to make the right choice, have the right timing, understand the situation nor respond intelligently. Perhaps all things were not in BK's favor when he arrived here, but he made all the wrong choices. At the end of the day all we can be accused of is harsh opinion. BK has to live with the fact he has about as much guts as Biff Loman.
Cheers!TheDukester wrote:Or grow a pair. Either way.
Posted: 22 Oct 2008 20:44
I cant post over there anymore, but have been having random thoughts/questions that would probably get deleted, maybe someone who can post with better command of the political language needed over there could:
1. Is it possible to do a Dune Fan Census? all fans, just to get a ball park Idea.
2. With a centralized site for census, could they be asked simple yes/no questions about Dune Canon and the NUDUNE books?
3. Why didnt P&B write DUNE 7 First?
4. Since they have long finished Grunt and Sadworms, would it be possible to publish the notes/outlines for just those books? (would seem to be to their advantage)
5. Is it to early in the cycle to get rid of peter berg and try for Ridley Scott for the new movie?? He recently gained the rites to do The forever War, and was on the original Dune movie, he seems to be primed for another sci-fi classic, why not give him a try.
6. Even with the books that the idiot twins have written, is the HLP open to another author attempting a FANFIC ending to the Originals?
7. (inspired by simon's work) Would the HLP be open to a Graphic Novel versions of the originals, with an ending other than what P&B wrote?
I think I have about 10,000 other questions, but cant think of them at the moment.
Chew on those, see what ya think,
Trang.
1. Is it possible to do a Dune Fan Census? all fans, just to get a ball park Idea.
2. With a centralized site for census, could they be asked simple yes/no questions about Dune Canon and the NUDUNE books?
3. Why didnt P&B write DUNE 7 First?
4. Since they have long finished Grunt and Sadworms, would it be possible to publish the notes/outlines for just those books? (would seem to be to their advantage)
5. Is it to early in the cycle to get rid of peter berg and try for Ridley Scott for the new movie?? He recently gained the rites to do The forever War, and was on the original Dune movie, he seems to be primed for another sci-fi classic, why not give him a try.
6. Even with the books that the idiot twins have written, is the HLP open to another author attempting a FANFIC ending to the Originals?
7. (inspired by simon's work) Would the HLP be open to a Graphic Novel versions of the originals, with an ending other than what P&B wrote?
I think I have about 10,000 other questions, but cant think of them at the moment.
Chew on those, see what ya think,
Trang.
Posted: 22 Oct 2008 23:01
Who really gives a shit if they're open to anyone attempting any sort of Dune fanfic?
You wouldn't be able to publish in book form because of the copyright issues, but there are other ways to get things into people's hands. (And minds.)
You wouldn't be able to publish in book form because of the copyright issues, but there are other ways to get things into people's hands. (And minds.)
Posted: 22 Oct 2008 23:07
You are so evil, SandChigger....