Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

Ever wonder if Kevin just comes up with the weirdest shit he can imagine and puts it in just to see if "if he writes it, they will believe"?

(You, whoever it was, were right about the electrostatic charge. It's not the particles in the air that zaps the shields. My bad! )

I haven't read the exact passages where it happens yet, but it looks like there's a collapse of an entire barren plain?

And old Moriarity...I mean, Moritani, fills his castle or whatever with the family atomics. Kind of a "going out with a bang and taking all your enemies with you" gig.

Just read where he's planning it. Not sure if he follows thru....

chanilover wrote:

SandChigger wrote: Anyway...the horses with their "war spikes" penetrating some of the shields and killing soldiers (Paul almost gets it from one as well)...that was truly memorable.

Warrior unicorns! Sounds hyptastic.

No wonder Byron thought this one was the best.
Didn't he say he wasn't working on a scifi book but something similiar to the LOTR?

SandChigger wrote:And old Moriarity...I mean, Moritani, fills his castle or whatever with the family atomics. Kind of a "going out with a bang and taking all your enemies with you" gig.

Just read where he's planning it. Not sure if he follows thru....

Yeah he actually does. Well tries to. And fails. He hits the button but it turns out his own Swordmaster pulled the plug on him "to save the family honor".

It was a very dramatic chapter cut.

I'm starting to wonder if KJA has Deus Ex Machina tattooed like a tramp stamp on his 'athletic' midsection.

The Sons of Idaho wrote:

Ampoliros wrote:. The blades on the horse however would NOT penetrate the shield.

The horses were trained in sheild fighting, so they knew to move slow on the attack and fast on defense. They're products of a failed Tleilaxu Kwisatz-Horse-Haderach program, so theyre naturally talented fighters.

Yeah, they should have twisted them first.

Hey, maybe the Tleilaxu can harvest them and bring them back as Gholas for Jessica of Dune!

So wait, what the hell is supposed to happen in Jessica of Dune? more assassination attempts and love scenes between Gurney and Jessica? Seems like they blew their load in this book.

chanilover wrote:

SandChigger wrote: Anyway...the horses with their "war spikes" penetrating some of the shields and killing soldiers (Paul almost gets it from one as well)...that was truly memorable.

Warrior unicorns! Sounds hyptastic.

Hmmm...so Hyppo could be KJA's muse?

It makes such fucking sense...

Ampoliros wrote:I imagine the shield would fail. Large objects would have enough momentum and mass that the shield would slow it, but it's still coming; the shield would not protect you.

For medium objects and glancing blows I imagine it would. Shielded people being knocked over by horses makes sense to me. The blades on the horse however would NOT penetrate the shield. I imagine a shield would even give some, but not total protection against trampling by a Horse.

I don't think a shield would protect you from a long fall either.

So i'm gettin more curious about this the more I think about it. If this was discussed already, I'd like to see what you guys came up with... Is there a thread here about this?

The Dune novels, if I recall, don't go into much depth about the mechanics of the Holtzman effect. I enjoyed reading about it in the Dune Encyclopedia though. I don't remember all the details, but it talks about how the single law is applied in 0,1,2,3 and 4 dimensions, allowing the single discovery to be used in multiple key technological developments.

A wizard did it...named Frank Herbert.

Rakis wrote:

chanilover wrote:

SandChigger wrote: Anyway...the horses with their "war spikes" penetrating some of the shields and killing soldiers (Paul almost gets it from one as well)...that was truly memorable.

Warrior unicorns! Sounds hyptastic.

Hmmm...so Hyppo could be KJA's muse?

It makes such fucking sense...

KJA hikes out into the woods to shag the bag lady.
(Me thinks its Hoary Tales time )

Speaking of the Holtmann Effect...did you know that the Ixians make a jammer that knocks out suspensors?

I'm sure there's something incredibly wrong about that.

During some oh-gawd-why-can't-I-sleep browsing this morning, I found the scene where Petite Marie slaughters a roomful (15?) of the BT's BEST Face-Dancer warriors.

In the dark.



Also the touching scene where Duncan receives his new sword before they leave for the battle on Grumman. (I also skimmed the bomb sabotage scene.)

Bad. Bad. Bad.

(There was some unnecessary descriptive adjective use that had me groaning, but I can't recall what it was at the moment.)

SandChigger wrote: Also the touching scene where Duncan receives his new sword before they leave for the battle on Grumman. (I also skimmed the bomb sabotage scene.)

Bad. Bad. Bad.

Sounds like SOMEone is trying to justify what FH said about DI and Grumman

I really hope that at least takes part in the 'past' portion of the book... cause that wouldn't even make any remote sense otherwise.

SandChigger wrote:Speaking of the Holtmann Effect...did you know that the Ixians make a jammer that knocks out suspensors?

I'm sure there's something incredibly wrong about that.

In GEoD, Leto speculates that someday, some technological tinkerer at the fringe of known science might find a way to nullify the Holtzman Effect, changing the face of modern warfare drastically. He was hinting at the persistance of human ingenuity in that we accomplish the impossible given enough time/necessity (a common theme in Dune). He said this meaning it was so far fetched it was almost impossible.

But it happened 3500 before he was born, and then i'm sure was completely fogotten about somehow.
Sounds exactly like the Harkonnen no-ship nonsense.

Surprise, surprise!

I guess this might be taken as indirect evidence that they have read GEoD?

I guess that these new books are written about little events that were depicted in one page or less (in FH's books) so the reader can imagine them or events that doesn't have importance.

Could we expect explanations on:

-How Farok get that sickness?
-Why bijaz is some midget?
-How Alia got the ''St. alia of the knife'' nickname?
-Irulan buyng abortives pills
-The death of Farad'n father
-Tyekanik banging Wensicia
-Gurney banging Jessica (luckily or not for her, Gurney's ghola wasn't produced in Sandworms)
-Alia banging that qizara guy.

Feel free to add.

The Sons of Idaho wrote:

SandChigger wrote:Speaking of the Holtmann Effect...did you know that the Ixians make a jammer that knocks out suspensors?

I'm sure there's something incredibly wrong about that.

In GEoD, Leto speculates that someday, some technological tinkerer at the fringe of known science might find a way to nullify the Holtzman Effect, changing the face of modern warfare drastically. He was hinting at the persistance of human ingenuity in that we accomplish the impossible given enough time/necessity (a common theme in Dune). He said this meaning it was so far fetched it was almost impossible.

But it happened 3500 before he was born, and then i'm sure was completely fogotten about somehow.
Sounds exactly like the Harkonnen no-ship nonsense.

I believe that was Duncan thinking in CoD:

Idaho shrugged. It was an unanswerable question. All of them suspected that
one day the Tleilaxu or technological tinkerers on the Imperial fringes would
nullify the Holtzmann Effect. On that day, shields would be useless. The whole
precarious balance which maintained planetary feudatories would collapse.
~Children of Dune

The Sons of Idaho wrote:In GEoD, Leto speculates that someday, some technological tinkerer (Idiot) at the fringe of known science (KJA 'Science' 'Fiction') might find a way to nullify the Holtzman Effect, changing the face of modern warfare drastically.(forget/ignore a physical rule of the universe he is writing in for an extremely insignificant plot point.)

Amazing how the separatists knew they would be using Holtzman repulsor fields instead of ornithopters or more traditional aircraft.

SandChigger wrote:I found the scene where Petite Marie slaughters a roomful (15?) of the BT's BEST Face-Dancer warriors.

In the dark.

Rolling Eyes

As horrible as it sounds, I would have tied that little bitch up in shigawire and slowly tortured her to death. Probably remove all her limbs and lock her in an oubliette under my toilet. Pretentious little bitch ISN'T FOOLING ANYONE, except the most powerful prescient truthsayer in the galaxy, his pre-born Reverend Mother sister, and his amazing technicolor security squad.

New KJA superweapon. Marie just IS awesome. No explination why. Oh wait she's trained by the one of best assassins in the universe, and a Bene Gesseritt who quit the BG for the man she loves. Shit, man, half of the Great houses would have pwecious wittle Mawies running around.

This would have been more believable:

Fenring handed the large case to his good friend Korba. "I just need you to watch over this case for a few days. Ignore the ticking, its an ancient Earth Clock I inherited from my Grandfather. Because of the delicacy of the wiring, it must be placed directly under Muad'dib's Throne for safe keeping.

Korba rubbed his chin, looking at the large ticking case. "Sure I'll do it. Though i'd rather it was a lasgun and a shield in there, timed to fire at each other. The resulting explosion would mimic an Atomic blast and kill Muad'dib, ridding me of him forever Muahahahha! I hate that bastard Muad'dib. And his little sister Alia. Who is just a child irregardless of what the histories by that hottie Irulan say."

The Feydakin guards with Korba laughed. "Oh that Korba! What a kidder! Hey guys, I hear Gurney is having a circle-jerk down at the Pool! I even hear he has a gold solari for whoever can 'hold their breath' the longest! Let's go! These new off world uber-stillsuits make me soooo Horny!"

sparafucile wrote:

SandChigger wrote: Also the touching scene where Duncan receives his new sword before they leave for the battle on Grumman. (I also skimmed the bomb sabotage scene.)

Bad. Bad. Bad.

Sounds like SOMEone is trying to justify what FH said about DI and Grumman

I really hope that at least takes part in the 'past' portion of the book... cause that wouldn't even make any remote sense otherwise.

Wow would that ever add to their Retcons of Dune legacy if they put something in this book to justify their earlier mistake about where Duncan first "bloodied his sword".

Freakzilla wrote:

The Sons of Idaho wrote:

SandChigger wrote:Speaking of the Holtmann Effect...did you know that the Ixians make a jammer that knocks out suspensors?

I'm sure there's something incredibly wrong about that.

In GEoD, Leto speculates that someday, some technological tinkerer at the fringe of known science might find a way to nullify the Holtzman Effect, changing the face of modern warfare drastically. He was hinting at the persistance of human ingenuity in that we accomplish the impossible given enough time/necessity (a common theme in Dune). He said this meaning it was so far fetched it was almost impossible.

But it happened 3500 before he was born, and then i'm sure was completely fogotten about somehow.
Sounds exactly like the Harkonnen no-ship nonsense.

I believe that was Duncan thinking in CoD:

Idaho shrugged. It was an unanswerable question. All of them suspected that
one day the Tleilaxu or technological tinkerers on the Imperial fringes would
nullify the Holtzmann Effect. On that day, shields would be useless. The whole
precarious balance which maintained planetary feudatories would collapse.
~Children of Dune

I guess it carries slightly less weight coming from Duncan instead of the God Emperor. One could say he just didn't know about it...
BUT STILL

Alot of what they write I can brush off as an annoyance, but this just makes me mad. They decided to destroy one of THE core themes of Dune, probably without even realizing it. And, as someone pointed out, all for a pretty insignificant plot point

Leto did outlaw defensive shields in his empire though.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

sparafucile wrote:

SandChigger wrote: Also the touching scene where Duncan receives his new sword before they leave for the battle on Grumman. (I also skimmed the bomb sabotage scene.)

Bad. Bad. Bad.

Sounds like SOMEone is trying to justify what FH said about DI and Grumman

I really hope that at least takes part in the 'past' portion of the book... cause that wouldn't even make any remote sense otherwise.

Wow would that ever add to their Retcons of Dune legacy if they put something in this book to justify their earlier mistake about where Duncan first "bloodied his sword".

Didn't they make a big deal in the House books about Duncan using the Old Duke's sword? I guess he loses it is what that means?

I'll be pretty dissapointed if their 'retcon' is just Duncan saying "Oh, I meant this sword was first blooded on Grumman. My other swords saw plenty of action before that".

The Sons of Idaho wrote: Didn't they make a big deal in the House books about Duncan using the Old Duke's sword? I guess he loses it is what that means?

I'll be pretty dissapointed if their 'retcon' is just Duncan saying "Oh, I meant this sword was first blooded on Grumman. My other swords saw plenty of action before that".

Bingo, you win the prize. He loses the sword before he gets to Grumman. Paul tells him "Now you'll a new sword!"

Ghost wrote: -Why bijaz is some midget?

Hey, I'll kick you square in the nuts!

Bijaz wrote:

Rakis wrote:

chanilover wrote:

SandChigger wrote: Anyway...the horses with their "war spikes" penetrating some of the shields and killing soldiers (Paul almost gets it from one as well)...that was truly memorable.

Warrior unicorns! Sounds hyptastic.

Hmmm...so Hyppo could be KJA's muse?

It makes such fucking sense...

KJA hikes out into the woods to shag the bag lady.
(Me thinks its Hoary Tales time )

Calling Chanilover,Calling Chanilover...

Freakzilla wrote:Leto did outlaw defensive shields in his empire though.

Sure, but however effective this was, it wouldn't have the same effect as a major breakthrough like countering the Holtzman Effect. It could be compared to the exact opposite happening with the invention of shields. A single discovery changed things for thousands of years to come. This natural process of a system changing based on new conditions would be always more effective than imposing those same changes forcefully.

Its like if a ruler today were to impose a worldwide ban on firearms, however strictly it was enforced, it would not be as effective as guns being made obsolete by a new technology.

This thing is impossible to read for any significant length of time. I am about 100 pages in. It is such a piece of garbage.

The Sons of Idaho wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:Leto did outlaw defensive shields in his empire though.

Sure, but however effective this was, it wouldn't have the same effect as a major breakthrough like countering the Holtzman Effect. It could be compared to the exact opposite happening with the invention of shields. A single discovery changed things for thousands of years to come. This natural process of a system changing based on new conditions would be always more effective than imposing those same changes forcefully.

Its like if a ruler today were to impose a worldwide ban on firearms, however strictly it was enforced, it would not be as effective as guns being made obsolete by a new technology.

I agree, and I think the plan of Leto II was only minimize the damage on the system for the forthcoming of the nullifying-shield technology. I think he knows he could never disappear with the shield only proscribing it.