Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

I'm agreeing with you, and I'm glad you came back.

I would like it if you join in on the Dune discussion too, though.

Based on his posts over at DN I actually thought BK was one of us in sockpuppet form. Just a first impression anyways... that's kinda out the window now.

TheDukester wrote:

GamePlayer wrote:Hey Bearded Kirklander, someone just made fun of you on Jacurutu. Maybe you should "happen" upon the site, instigate a false "bad experience" and then come crying back to Dumbnovels where we publically can kiss it all better.

Yeah, it's really starting to seem like a set-up. For one thing, they guy didn't take off after receiving his initial broadsides; he only left after later getting a few measured, reasonable responses, which makes no sense at all. Unless, of course, the idea was to leave no matter what.

Similar thought: is anyone else thinking this guy is just a Byron sock-puppet? Beyond the fact that they seem to be having a mutual love-in over at The Shithole, there's some interesting circumstantial coincidences (the Herbert family, for instance, knows all about Kirkland, Washington).

Either way: total pussy. Not enough backbone to argue his case here; can't resist starting fake "what does OH mean?" threads over there.

I thought that at first because of the beard and Scottish sounding last name. Also his constant shilling for that new shit but in audio form. I don't even care though.

TheDukester wrote:

GamePlayer wrote:Similar thought: is anyone else thinking this guy is just a Byron sock-puppet?

Me, too. And it's not about being paranoid, it's the chain of events and style of writing. He was too eager to scream foul then paint us as fanatical bad guys, and for someone who doesn't know what OH represents he sure flung "fanatics" out there very quickly. (Anyone else noticed in the Amazon reviews for PoD the new tactic is to agree with our points then conclude the book was great anyway with a 3-5 star evaluation.)

one, that the HLP or whoever ,would do something so silly. Have they done this type of thing before, with the release of the other books ? Have you seen all this before from them is what I'm asking ? (links to posts within this board would be appreciated.)

You mean if the HLP have use a shill before to promote a book?

You mean besides Byron, Arnie, Simon,etc...?

... and the 10,000 shills who have posted meaningless 5-star reviews at Amazon for Waterworms and Paula, lifting their text straight from the book jacket?

...Oh, i forgot Red Dear, too...

Stay with us! Head for the light!

The BK situation will probably become clearer in a few days, so I'll set that aside for now. I do have a pet theory for some of the more blatant Amazon shills, though: they are receiving free product, with the most likely candidate being copies of the books (perhaps even signed).

As to some of the more rabid posters over at www.the-HLP-hates-Frank-Herbert.com, I think they can be divided into two camps; there's at least one blatant shill (perhaps two), and the rest are just people whose lips move when they read. Kevin J. Anderson's target audience, in other words.

In a similar vein, as you know, the HLP is very careful to control the flow of information if it's at all possible. Thus, no actual "discussion" is allowed at the official discussion boards. Thus, the various MySpace pages where only slobbering fanboys are allowed to post. Thus, pretending that solicitations from the Library Journal actually count as "reviews."

So the fact that someone at the HLP sees fit to send over this BK character as either a sock-puppet or a stalking horse is not exactly a stunning development. That's the kind of people they are.

[quote="GamePlayer"]You can't be friends with everyone Lundse.

I am not trying to be, trust me. I am just trying to have a civil debate with everyone who wishes it.

And even if BK is here in another errand, such as going back to DN with another example of us being rude and apparently close-minded, how does it help us to give it to him?

So, what ... ?

A new guy who is, at best, sent over as a stalking horse should be ... what? ... welcomed?

That makes about zero sense.

Re-read his posts (both here and elsewhere); he wasn't here to debate anything. Maybe Byron, or whomever, will be more clever the next time they try to introduce a ringer.

SandRider wrote:Is this person in the actual pay of the HLP, or a dupe, a fan who, as I read somewhere else here, may be receiving gifts or sexual favors from Kevin ? What could be their motivation ?

His wife 'Becca claims (MySpace PM) he's hung like a horse and rogers her raw like a mutant Salusan bull. I guess that sort of thing churns some people's birdbaths.



What I'm going to take away from this one as my chuckler for the day is the fact that the search spiders are going to sweep through here and carry off "receiving gifts or sexual favors from Kevin"! (Especially now that I've repeated it twice more.) Thus are rumors born!

TheDukester wrote:So, what ... ?

A new guy who is, at best, sent over as a stalking horse should be ... what? ... welcomed?

That makes about zero sense.

Re-read his posts (both here and elsewhere); he wasn't here to debate anything. Maybe Byron, or whomever, will be more clever the next time they try to introduce a ringer.

Assuming he is stalking us is circular reasoning, and even if you are right then we would all be better of welcoming his inputs and then ignoring it when they dried up.
If he came here to discuss Dune, get heard or listen to our reasoning, then the personal attacks have driven him off before he got a chance to do either.
To restate: I do not blame him for not wanting to listen to paranoid accusations and personal attacks. How about telling the guy why you feel as you feel instead of just chewing him out because he does not feel the same?

And I did re-read his posts, and they start of asking what an OH'er is - hardly reason to attack him and an indication that he is here for something (other than spying, discrupting or whatever you think he stands to gain).

To me, he seems to be a very casual reader who is a bit loose with terms like canonicity. I am not saying there is no way he can have ulterior motives, he might even be KJA himself as someone suggested, but there is no reason to asume that yet. So I wont.

Again, Lundse is the voice of reason.

Lundse wrote:To restate: I do not blame him for not wanting to listen to paranoid accusations and personal attacks. How about telling the guy why you feel as you feel instead of just chewing him out because he does not feel the same?.....but there is no reason to asume that yet. So I wont.

Yes, there was.
Just because you didn't see what we saw doesn't mean we are automatically paranoid.

(If I recall you were away from the front lines for awhile and missed some rather eventful times.)

Btw, I hardly believe he was a member of the HLP. He came across as one of the typical fanboys which isn't surprising following the tail end of the latest book signing tour.

On second thought, read what he has been posting at dumbnovels. I swear one of his posts really mimics what Byron has said in the past. I don't buy he's simply a casual reader.

Mr. Teg wrote:

Lundse wrote:To restate: I do not blame him for not wanting to listen to paranoid accusations and personal attacks. How about telling the guy why you feel as you feel instead of just chewing him out because he does not feel the same?.....but there is no reason to asume that yet. So I wont.

Yes, there was.
Just because you didn't see what we saw doesn't mean we are automatically paranoid.

I haven't been following much of what has been going on at DN, I admit. From his behavour here, however, I see no reason to slander him.

But you may very well be right, and have good reason to believe what you do. My paranoia comment was made from an assumption that the accusations were based solely on his behaviour here, I retract it if this is not the case.
But I do see a pattern in these accusations - anyone who likes and defends KJA's work must be working for him, be a sycophant to Byron, or similar. I have no need for that assumption: having piss-poor taste, feeling misplaced loyalty over a signed book or a kind message from the grandson of FH (and too much time on ones hands) can lead to the same behaviour...

Unless you are redirected here from DN, remember from Arrakeen forum or T (a)u or know this place beforehand (?) it is almost impossible that you end here just finding this site after searching ''Dune'', ''Paul of Dune'' in google.

Ghost wrote:Unless you are redirected here from DN, remember from Arrakeen forum or T (a)u or know this place beforehand (?) it is almost impossible that you end here just finding this site after searching ''Dune'', ''Paul of Dune'' in google.

ermm, thats how i got here......

Are there still links to here at DN? I'm amazed Byron allows that.

Lundse wrote:... we would all be better of welcoming his inputs and then ignoring it when they dried up.

Better off? Why? I'm being serious here. In what ways, exactly, would we be "better off"?

Lundse wrote:... driven him off

He left of his own accord. Big difference.

Lundse wrote:How about telling the guy why you feel as you feel instead of just chewing him out because he does not feel the same?

Again, a number of people responded in a civil fashion, myself included (I wound enjoy talking about the new series of audiobooks with someone). And, again, it was at this point that he chose to leave. Strange, huh?

Lundse wrote:... a bit loose with terms like canonicity.

How odd, since he knows exactly what canon is all about when he's posting at Shithole.com. How very, very convenient.

+++++

My God, all of this worry over a guy who is either a ringer or else some incredibly sensitive goober who left right when he heard "welcome."

And is something stopping him from coming back here? No? I didn't think so.

I'm sorry, but...all this fuss over someone who didn't know or recognize the word "sietch"?

Please....

Amen.

New subject, please.

Okay, let's get some perspective here.

The guy is now gone, so all bets are off. He's run wild indicting everyone here for a "bad experience" in which he made every effort to worsen and didn't lift a finger to improve. HE DIDN'T EVEN TRY! That alone speak volumes; the circumstances are irrelevant at that point.

I'd also ask, where's the personal responsibility? Why the hell doesn't a Dune fan know what "seitch" means? Going a step further, the guy spends all of a day in our forum and figures he's expert enough to badmouth Jacurutu, declaring "fanatic", spouting crap about how awful the place is and EVERYONE in it...because he's a "Dune fan" that was laughed at when he didn't know what a "seitch" was. Are you fucking kidding me? I know a fella that acts like that, claiming everyone with a harsh opinion of him/his work is a terrorist...

Next, the "paranoia" issue. Honestly, I'd have to give a shit to be paranoid and I don't. But just so we're clear, we have the admin of Dumbnovels admitting he lurks Dune fan forums so he can ban bad members. That's not OUR "paranoia"; that's called a disturbed cyber stalking administrator of a failing message board.

Truth is, there isn't a lot here for prequel fans: that's the point. If you want to praise the prequels, adore KJA and talk up BH, there's Dumbnovels and author blawgs. We can't praise Frank Herbert and denounce prequels on DN, so we have Jacurutu. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

No apologies. Remember the wise words of RATM: anger is a gift