Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

SandChigger wrote:Leto reigned for 3,500 years. Heretics begins 1,500 years after his death. That's a total of 5,000 years from the beginning of his reign until the beginning of Heretics.

Leto began keeping his journals in the first year of his reign. At some point he learned of the Ixian development of no-tech or they approached him with it as a gift or product for purchase. It could be that the Harkonnens were commissioned the development and he learned of it, or the Harkonnens got wind of the new development and approached the Ixians and Leto allowed the Ixians to sell it to the Harkonnens as well, in order to drain their resources and keep them occupied.

However it played out, Leto had a no-globe/complex built on Arrakis at Dar-es-Balat, "The House of Tiles", and concealed his "Hidden Journals" there, with the Ixian machinery that recorded his thoughts. Above the door to the complex was an inscription saluting the future discoverer thereof as the first person to see his chronicles for four thousand years.

Now, I read this as meaning that the four thousand years refers to the age of the Dar-es-Balat complex. This means the four thousand years fits inside the five-thousand–year period I mentioned at the beginning, with one thousand years leeway which has to be divided between the periods before and after.

We know that Dar-es-Balat is discovered before the beginning of Heretics because the Bene Gesserit know of it and have incorporated some of the contents of the Hidden Journals into their traditions. This would no doubt require a couple hundred years or more. I've never been able to find anything in the texts that would help to pinpoint the exact dates, so I generally just think of Dar-es-Balat as having been built around 500 years into Leto's reign (it would have taken time for the Ixians to develop the no-tech and telepathic recording equipment) and as having been rediscovered about 500 years before the beginning of Heretics (giving the BG time to absorb and integrate the contents).

Just my interpretations and speculations offered as one possibility.

(In Winds the Ixians are already selling methods simulating telepathy [because KJA has to preempt FH with every kewl techy thang he can ... the House books no-tech being the prime example], so no doubt they're going to have Leto building the complex very early in his reign, if not immediately after he ascends to the throne. )

A Little Galach wrote:Man, you're thorough.

SandRider wrote:he's never even actually read Dune

he copied that from one of the academic papers in the archive @ T(A)U ....

A few questions:

Why was the no-chamber's origin changed? Or rather how was the difference explained away?

...

Did KJA just want a "cloaking device" and decided to call it a "no-____" in order to fit into the Duniverse?

Allizkaerf wrote:

A Little Galach wrote:A few questions:

Why was the no-chamber's origin changed? Or rather how was the difference explained away?

They are the copyright holders.

If you assume the Baron did build a No-Chamber: Why would the Baron need a chamber to shield something from prescience before Muad'dib and the Tyrant? I believe only Navigators were presient before Paul evolved on Dune and theirs was a comparitively weak ability next to Leto and Paul.

No-ships are also invisible to the naked eye.

How would this Ixian know how to build something to shield against an ability that was narrowly used by a secretive organization and not really understood by anyone oiutside of it?

He read all Irulan's Dune books.

Did KJA just want a "cloaking device" and decided to call it a "no-____" in order to fit into the Duniverse?

What goes on in his mind is God's own private mystery.

SandChigger wrote: Did KJA just want a "cloaking device" and decided to call it a "no-____" in order to fit into the Duniverse?

Just a little heads-up, about what to expect if NoBalls doesn't just delete the whole thing outright: IIRC KJA has said that the no-tech in the House Preludes is "different" from that in the (later) original books; might even be in the old FAQ stuff, as a matter of fact. So don't be surprised if ByrByr just regurgitates something like that at you.

Tleilax Master B wrote:Q. There is only a single line in the original series that indicates the possibility that No-technology results in invisibility to the naked eye (For brief moments when they disgorged troops, no-ships were visible and vulnerable. [Chapterhouse]), yet there are numerous lines that indicate the ships are visible to the naked eye, perhaps the most prominent being

The no-ship sat there creaking, a glistening steely ball whose presence could be detected by the eyes and ears but not by any prescient or long-range instrument. Teg’s doubled vision made him confident that no unwanted eyes saw his arrival

in HERETICS. Why was the decision made in the Prequels to present all no-technology as truly invisible to the naked eye? (re: the secret attack in the Guildship made to look like an Atreides attack)

KJA, blathering and bluffing, wrote:The technology developed by the Richesian inventor Chobyn in the HOUSE books took place thousands of years before no-field technology was introduced to the reader in HERETICS. Chobyn was killed and all records of his work were destroyed, and the technology was lost. There is nothing to suggest that these two are the exactly same technologies.

SandChigger wrote:Actually, to be fair, I believe that "not the same" explanation was given in answer to the Harkonnen no-tech ships that attack on that Highliner, not in reference to the Gammu no-globe.

Let me see if I can find the FAQ stuff....

Hunchback Jack wrote:KJA's response was such a bullshit answer."There's nothing to suggest ...."??? He's the goddamn *author* for the love of Mike. He can say whether he meant for them to be the same or not with absolute certainty.

SandChigger wrote:I see Freak has been slumming again and arguing no-tech with that dumbfuck arnoldo.

SandChigger wrote:So, I see that arnoldo has suggested on DN that the Harkonnen cave no-chamber in House Atreides is not the same one used by Teg et al. in Heretics. How interesting! What an original, CREATIVE, KJA-cyberfellator-worthy idea!

Don't you all feel your time and effort spent on the discussion over there has been worthwhile?