Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

It's not pointless. When you have fools like Nicodemus(I know some of you have fondness for him but oh well) spouting off about his Matrix like Butlerian Jihad, I feel I have to respond. It has nothing to do with trying to make the board credible or making it a better site, it has to do with defending the legacy of Dune. The fact is, and I would hope Freak would agree, is that it is necessary to keep these debates in the faces of new fans and to point them in "our" direction. You guys do it one way and sometimes I join in, I just like to pick and choose my battles a little differently. Fans will be drawn to that site more than any other....that's the reason I'm there.

If I'm suddenly some kind of traitor because I "asked Byron" to rejoin, then I call bullshit. I think many of you know me well enough to see that could never be. At least I hope so.

I've done the proxy sockpuppet thing over there too long. I've had three names banned or canceled. I've been Crysknife for over a decade.

I asked Byron to let me back in... twice.

And I'm there for the same reason. Although the recruit prospecting is getting really slow.

It's not pointless because of posts-counts, number of users, or any of that us-versus-them bullshit. Forget all that; none of that is the issue.

It's pointless because:

1. You will inevitably be banned for some random reason that Byron pulls out of his ass during some PMS-esque mood swing;

2. Despite the name, there is no Dune discussion over there. None. It's eight or nine retards spouting gibberish at each other. There's no one to save.

Basically, you'll be (temporarily) adding some dignity and knowledge to a place that doesn't deserve it, doesn't want you there, and will look for any reason to remove you.

So I meant my earlier comment to be literal, not as some sort of snarky aside. It's literally pointless — there's no point to it at all.

I would agree it's pointless to try to bring knowledge to arnoldo and his ilk, but it's not them I'm targeting. It's new people that might be on the fence, and Frank's legacy. Neither of which is pointless. Is there something wrong by having a rational side to the debate on a site that attracts new fans? And if the day comes that I get banned again, it won't be before I have another blaze of glory, I can assure you.

I agree Freak, it is slow, but i've pointed quite a few people to us and hope to continue.

Crysknife wrote:Is there something wrong by having a rational side to the debate on a site that attracts new fans?

Ah, I see the problem. We are clearly looking at different sites.

The Dune Novels I'm familiar with does not allow rational debates, nor does it attract anyone but complete fucking wingnuts.

But knock yourself out. You don't have to convince me ... actually, you can't convince me. I see that place for what it is. To think that Freakin Meow is suddenly going to allow actual discussion over there is wishful thinking at its worst. His type of coward never changes its M.O.

You've nothing to lose but your time, I suppose (as long as you don't punch your monitor in frustration or something like that).

Crysknife wrote:... i've pointed quite a few people to us and hope to continue.

Which is cool (are you using PMs to escape Byron's wrath? I don't think he even allows the term "Jacurutu" over there).

But is anyone signing up here? Not trying to be snarky, but it seems like we're not exactly being over-run with new sign-ups. I've tried to do the same thing at Amazon, but it seems like it's hard to get people to take the next step. And it's been slow there, since the discussion on Winds is pretty much over and there's no new McDune until 2012.

Crysknife wrote:If I'm suddenly some kind of traitor because I "asked Byron" to rejoin, then I call bullshit.

I didn't call you a traitor. I didn't call you anything. I just think it's incredibly sad.

I personally would say to Hell with every potential future convert before I would ask that fucker Merritt for the time of day.

But then, I've always been a Götterdämmerung/burn-it-all-down kinda guy.

Crysknife wrote:When you have fools like Nicodemus(I know some of you have fondness for him but oh well) spouting off

What happened to that guy? He wrote me a one word PM that said: "Bitch" and then disappeared.

I think he was troubled.

Chig, you're right, you didn't call me a traitor. But are you now calling me sad or the situation? I personally don't give a fuck what anyone thinks and i''ve never done it for the post counts or the us vs. them. I do it because my favorite author's legacy is being tarnished and his message distorted. I have always respected your knowledge and tireless effort in fighting for those same causes, as I have many of you guys. I'm just using a different tact. It's not about Byron at all, it's about getting the message across one way or another. I know this might sound crazy, lame, or stupid but I think there is a side of Byron that agrees with us. I haven't really been deleted or censored since I came back, and if that has something to do with my name then all the better. It wasn't the same with the sockpuppets.

Yes Duke, I usually do it with PMs, even if they never come over at least they know we are here.

Guys, it's just my way......All I really have time for anymore. I've just been really stressed in real life and I'd love to be fighting like you guys on other sites but I just don't have it in me at the moment. So I focus on what I can handle, and that's the B Jihad...mostly.

Crysknife wrote:But are you now calling me sad or the situation?

The situation.

I know this might sound crazy, lame, or stupid but I think there is a side of Byron that agrees with us.

Teg can verify that I hung onto feelings like that for YEARS after I was banned.

I think that down deep, somewhere in his shit-eating heart, Byron knows we're right. But I also think he's too much of a corporate cunt to ever grow a pair or the spine needed to stand up to KJA and/or his uncle Brian, or to just walk away. He's not going to one day come into power and beneficently undo everything they've spent all these years doing. He's too much the whipped pussy for that. Even after Brian is gone or out of the picture (drooling in a home somewhere?), someone else will still be calling the shots, either KJA or someone within the HLP with more balls.

SandChigger wrote:

I know this might sound crazy, lame, or stupid but I think there is a side of Byron that agrees with us.

Teg can verify that I hung onto feelings like that for YEARS after I was banned.

I think that down deep, somewhere in his shit-eating heart, Byron knows we're right.

The writing in the new books is heinous. Of course he sees that. Anybody who reads Frank Herbert, and then reads KJA and BH, can see that the writing in the new books is mediocre and hackneyed, and a huge step down from what FH was doing.

But they've committed to a continuation of Dune that's on a pulp level of quality, and that's not going to change. Byron is a part of this group of people that's committed to this. I wouldn't give Byron any credit for realizing that the new books are stupid - he obviously does. He's got to. He's just taken the position that it's acceptable for the new books to be completely different from the original books. He's part of the problem, and that's not going to change. This guy is not going to suddenly rebel against HLP.

By the way, Crysknife, I really don't think anyone is accusing you of being a "traitor" or anything like that. I'm certainly not. I think people are just expressing their contempt for Byron and Dunenovels. Byron's not going to change, and I think he's found a way of justifying the new books that he's very comfortable with. And Dunenovels is lame. It's as lame as the new books.

It is the new books.

EDIT: DEEP

TheDukester wrote:

Crysknife wrote:Is there something wrong by having a rational side to the debate on a site that attracts new fans?

Ah, I see the problem. We are clearly looking at different sites.

The Dune Novels I'm familiar with does not allow rational debates, nor does it attract anyone but complete fucking wingnuts.

Or new readers. I've seen them, and PM'ed them, before I was banned. And I did ask Byron to lift the ban - but either he does not understand what an IP address is, or he just didn't want the hassle of me over there.

For my own time and sanity, I am probably better off not having an account - but showing the flag of the OH movement over there is not a bad thing, IMHO. PM'ing new users that there is a site where all the "controversial" stuff (eg. that satellite does not mean island) is not deleted outright. I was part of convincing one guy to read Frank before anything else - I think that was worthwhile. If Crysknife can do the same, or just show that not everyone marches to KJA's horrible prose, more power to him!

PS: This does not mean I do not find Dunenovels to be a horrid place of fruitless discussions, brown-nosing patrons and a spineless admin who probably knows better but has decided to make his moneygrab along with KJA. I do.

Merk wrote:The writing in the new books is heinous. Of course he sees that. Anybody who reads Frank Herbert, and then reads KJA and BH, can see that the writing in the new books is mediocre and hackneyed, and a huge step down from what FH was doing.

I'm not so sure.
I'm not sure Merritt has understood alot of what Frank wrote ...
He will spout the line "yes, McDune is a different style, because Spanky and The Other Guy aren't Frank ...",
but I don't think he thinks it's bad writing ... hell, look at his own ... compared to Merritt, Brian's fucking Faulkner ...

SandRider wrote:compared to Merritt, Brian's fucking Faulkner ...

Eeew... I don't know about that one.

Of course, I haven't read a lot of Faulkner.

Hey Crysknife, good to see you around!

I'm with Crysknife on this one, somebody has to be over there doing that job. I don't want to be that person, so it might as well be someone who can get at least some kind of satisfaction out of serving the cause.

Like it or not, DN is the first step for most people who go online looking to discuss Dune. People here can make all kinds of snide comments about those who choose to go back for some minor debate and recruiting, but if they want to see this site continue to flourish it's just work that has to be done.

I was recruited from Dunenovels. Of course, it was a sockpuppet, but it's the thought that counts.

I'm trying to lower morale over there. Yeah... that's my excuse.

merkin muffley wrote:I was recruited from Dunenovels. Of course, it was a sockpuppet, but it's the thought that counts.

I'm trying to lower morale over there. Yeah... that's my excuse.

A sockpuppet recruited you? Outstanding!

Freakzilla wrote:

merkin muffley wrote:I was recruited from Dunenovels. Of course, it was a sockpuppet, but it's the thought that counts.

I'm trying to lower morale over there. Yeah... that's my excuse.

A sockpuppet recruited you? Outstanding!

No, Nekhrun tried to recruit one of my sockpuppets.

merkin muffley wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

merkin muffley wrote:I was recruited from Dunenovels. Of course, it was a sockpuppet, but it's the thought that counts.

I'm trying to lower morale over there. Yeah... that's my excuse.

A sockpuppet recruited you? Outstanding!

No, Nekhrun tried to recruit one of my sockpuppets.

Awesome!

merkin muffley wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

merkin muffley wrote:I was recruited from Dunenovels. Of course, it was a sockpuppet, but it's the thought that counts.

I'm trying to lower morale over there. Yeah... that's my excuse.

A sockpuppet recruited you? Outstanding!

No, Nekhrun tried to recruit one of my sockpuppets.

I deserved it. Nekhrun is actually a sock puppet for a few other people anyway.

SandRider wrote:

SandChigger wrote:

Shorter version of why I'm backing Crysknife:
http://www.google.co.in/search?btnG=Goo ... dune+forum