posts that I think will get deleted at DN

[SandRider]

say merk, off the top of your head, what do you know about the pink snow in Utah ?

[merkin muffley]

say merk, off the top of your head, what do you know about the pink snow in Utah ?

[merkin muffley]

The pink snow reference is still totally over my head.

[SandChigger]

Who started that thread? Or do I need to ask?

[Crysknife]

say merk, off the top of your head, what do you know about the pink snow in Utah ?

Pink snow in Utah?

[merkin muffley]

Who started that thread? Or do I need to ask?

It was Indrid...

[Omphalos]

say merk, off the top of your head, what do you know about the pink snow in Utah ?

Obscure Kubrick reference?

[merkin muffley]

say merk, off the top of your head, what do you know about the pink snow in Utah ?

Obscure Kubrick reference?

Oh my God. Shishi.

At the end of The Shining, Jack Torrance got lost chasing Danny and his wife through the maze behind the Overlook, and before he froze to death, he made shishi and bled into the snow, leaving behind the sign of the Illuminati in pink, leaking all the way south into Utah.

Hence, The Shishining. Coincidence? I think not.

[merkin muffley]

Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 44
Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:24 am
Post subject: Non FH Dune books

If you really want to understand the debate, you have to see where some of the older fans are coming from. Imagine being a fan for decades and then someone other than the original author decides to take Dune in a direction you didn't see or want. It can get heated, but don't let that stop you.

Well said.

That's fine, but that doesn't describe my objections to the new books.

We're discussing the issue of quality, and new books vs. old, so I'm assuming I'm allowed to express my opinion about this here without getting deleted or banned. We'll see.

If Brian and Kevin had done something interesting with the new books, I would have been fine with inconsistencies. Whether or not the new books are canon is not so important to me, personally. My own tastes would have allowed for some changes, if new authors wanted to take Dune in an interesting new direction.

My favorite book in the series is Dune Messiah because it takes the characters to unexpected, interesting, and sometimes very dark, new places.

My problem with the new books is that they are really badly written. They're unbelievably mediocre. They're full of cardboard characters, sophomoric humor, tired sci-fi cliches, and devoid of interesting ideas. The prose is awkward and passive. The books read like bad Star Wars or Star Trek novelizations for tweens.

I was excited for the new books. I tried to read Butlerian Jihad and Paul of Dune. I wasn't able to finish either of them, and Paul of Dune is one of the worst books I've ever read.

You might have a different experience when you try to read the new books. It was a huge let down for me, but not because I was offended that the new authors are so different from Frank Herbert. For me, the problem was in the quality of the writing.

If the quality of the writing matters to you, these new books are going to be difficult, in my opinion.
_________________
"But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."

[Freakzilla]

That's going to go over well.

[merkin muffley]

That's going to go over well.

[Freakzilla]

I'm on the other end of the hate spectrum though, I'd have tolerated the bad writing if they had been 100% faithful to the originals. But since their accuracy sucks the bad writing is just a bonus.

[merkin muffley]

I'm on the other end of the hate spectrum though, I'd have tolerated the bad writing if they had been 100% faithful to the originals. But since their accuracy sucks the bad writing is just a bonus.

I would've been disappointed with books that were 100% faithful, but were written with KJA/BH quality.

The inconsistencies, though, are also a huge problem for me because they usually represent a blatant disregard for everything Frank Herbert's books stood for, is also big problem for me. Cheesy, hackneyed, cliched writing itself is a betrayal of Frank Herbert, in my opinion.

Something like the "Irulan wrote Dune" thing is horrible writing partly because it's a huge change made for the stupidest possible reasons - so that Paul can join the fucking circus, and shit. The kinds of inconsistencies in Paul of Dune demonstrate a contempt for the original books, which fuels my active hatred of what they're doing with the new books.

So, the bad writing and the inconsistency are both integral parts of the same shittiness. But the bad writing has made it impossible for me to even finish any of the new books. And I've tried. I've been trying to read those goddamned books since they first started coming out, and had no idea that anyone else felt the same as I did until I joined this website about a year ago.

[Freakzilla]

You're right, but I wasn't expecting anything in that regard so I wasn't as upset as with their lack of understanding or caring.

[SandRider]

say merk, off the top of your head, what do you know about the pink snow in Utah ?

Obscure Kubrick reference?

ah, sorta ... everytime I see clips of above-ground tests, I am reminded that the fallout from
Indian Springs drifted east into Utah, got caught up in the clouds and came back down as
pink snow --- in the 50s, kids would run out and play in it, eat it ... the government said
pink snow was not harmful ...

http://www.radiationcontrol.utah.gov/fallout.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapte ... nders.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




http://www.falloutradiation.com/file.ph ... IIoCGI.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"THYROID NODULARITY IN SOUTHWESTERN UTAH SCHOOL CHILDREN EXPOSED TO FALLOUT RADIATION, Feb. 1971"
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/re ... /2/241.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


just some of that randomness that's stuck in my head ...

[Crysknife]

Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 44
Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:24 am
Post subject: Non FH Dune books

If you really want to understand the debate, you have to see where some of the older fans are coming from. Imagine being a fan for decades and then someone other than the original author decides to take Dune in a direction you didn't see or want. It can get heated, but don't let that stop you.

Well said.

That's fine, but that doesn't describe my objections to the new books.

We're discussing the issue of quality, and new books vs. old, so I'm assuming I'm allowed to express my opinion about this here without getting deleted or banned. We'll see.

If Brian and Kevin had done something interesting with the new books, I would have been fine with inconsistencies. Whether or not the new books are canon is not so important to me, personally. My own tastes would have allowed for some changes, if new authors wanted to take Dune in an interesting new direction.

My favorite book in the series is Dune Messiah because it takes the characters to unexpected, interesting, and sometimes very dark, new places.

My problem with the new books is that they are really badly written. They're unbelievably mediocre. They're full of cardboard characters, sophomoric humor, tired sci-fi cliches, and devoid of interesting ideas. The prose is awkward and passive. The books read like bad Star Wars or Star Trek novelizations for tweens.

I was excited for the new books. I tried to read Butlerian Jihad and Paul of Dune. I wasn't able to finish either of them, and Paul of Dune is one of the worst books I've ever read.

You might have a different experience when you try to read the new books. It was a huge let down for me, but not because I was offended that the new authors are so different from Frank Herbert. For me, the problem was in the quality of the writing.

If the quality of the writing matters to you, these new books are going to be difficult, in my opinion.
_________________
"But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."

Merk, I pretty much agree with you, but I just want the new readers to remember to read the originals first. I think many will come to the same conclusions that all of us have if they do it this way. That's all I was trying to say. The new books are their own worst enemy. And if that guy happens to like the new books, well, more power to him and his couple of brain cells.

[merkin muffley]

ah, sorta ... everytime I see clips of above-ground tests, I am reminded that the fallout from
Indian Springs drifted east into Utah, got caught up in the clouds and came back down as
pink snow --- in the 50s, kids would run out and play in it, eat it ... the government said
pink snow was not harmful ...

Aha! Interesting, I never heard of that before.

Merk, I pretty much agree with you, but I just want the new readers to remember to read the originals first.

That's cool, I didn't realize the Crysknives were the same person. What you said on DN is totally reasonable. Keep in mind, my goal over there is to be as much of an asshole as possible. I really wasn't directing it at you.

[SandChigger]

the fallout from Indian Springs drifted east into Utah, got caught up in the clouds and came back down as pink snow --- in the 50s, kids would run out and play in it, eat it ... the government said pink snow was not harmful ...

KEWL... Glow-in-the-Dark Mormons!


Sounds like a government plot to eliminate a religious (cough cough) minority! I wonder if Marilyn knows!

[Crysknife]

ah, sorta ... everytime I see clips of above-ground tests, I am reminded that the fallout from
Indian Springs drifted east into Utah, got caught up in the clouds and came back down as
pink snow --- in the 50s, kids would run out and play in it, eat it ... the government said
pink snow was not harmful ...

Aha! Interesting, I never heard of that before.

Merk, I pretty much agree with you, but I just want the new readers to remember to read the originals first.

That's cool, I didn't realize the Crysknives were the same person. What you said on DN is totally reasonable. Keep in mind, my goal over there is to be as much of an asshole as possible. I really wasn't directing it at you.

I get you.....I tried that a while ago and got banned. I asked Byron to let me rejoin a few months ago if I promised to be at least a civil as Freak.

I just couldn't stand to see stupid arguments made about the B Jihad on a board where new fans might lurk. I made the point to Byron that my views are as valid as any fan and therefore as much a part of Dune as his or anyone's and as long as I kept it civil he would let me debate. Besides, Hyppo hasn't been around to set me off

[SandChigger]

I asked Byron to let me rejoin

...

[SandRider]

and the bitch actually responded ??

which reminds me, he hasn't responded to my request to remove my username from his membership ...

next stop, every Dune/McDune/Wingnut SciFi forum @amazon.com ...

[SandChigger]

I asked Byron to let me rejoin

...

[merkin muffley]

I asked Byron to let me rejoin

...

Yeah, I can't say I see the point of that.

The level of censorship over there is so ridiculous that there isn't any discussion or debate allowed, anyway. What's the point of trying to participate in that forum in good faith when it's the kind of place where passive aggressive ass-kiss Arnoldo can flourish because he's protected? Besides, it's so easy to get in there with a proxy.

Granted, there's really no point to what I'm doing (starting threads about wiping your ass), either...

[Nekhrun]

...there's really no point to what I'm doing (starting threads about wiping your ass), either...

It has about as much to do with Dune as anything else they do over there. Also you have the best reason for doing it that a person can have, it's funny.

[TheDukester]

I asked Byron to let me rejoin ...

Utterly pointless.