Well, except you don't feel the outrage, the sense of violation, or the sense that your intelligence is being insulted.Freakzilla wrote:Just hit yourself in the head with the hammer and skip reading the book. The effect is similar except that you won't feel dumber.
Umm... he's talking about the well known common sense fact that dissatisfied people are almost always more vocal than satisfied people. The accepted statistic in business is that a satisfied customer will on average tell 1 person they were satisfied - an unsatisfied person will tell 10. Simon is right on the money with this post, 90% people who enjoyed the books will put them on a shelf and never feel the need to talk about them online - but for those of us who hated the new books the % is likely much higher, and we certainly are a hell of a lot louder once we do get to talking about it.TheDukester wrote:Simon wrote:The dissatisfied are always more vocal. When you eat fast food and it's good you might say "hey this stuff is really fresh today!" but who turns their car around, or calls up the local Burger King to say "Fantastic job guys!". No one.
But if you get cold fries or a stale bun your going to complain. I myself read the books for 7 or 8 years without feeling the need to go online or write letters to the authors.
Um ... huh?
Seriously, what in the hell are you talking about?
If you honestly had never heard or thought that upset people are more vocal than happy ones I don't know what planet you've been onTheDukester wrote:No, not really.A Thing of Eternity wrote:So yeah, that was kinda obvious Duke.
It's clearer now ... AFTER other people have essentially re-written it for him. But if Simon wants to run with a faster crowd, he needs to work on his clarity.
, and I don't know how you could have missed that that was what he was saying. Sometimes Simon can be very unclear and dissorganized, this isn't one of those times.His clarity was fine (his punctuation and grammar were frighteningly terrible thoughSimon wrote:
The dissatisfied are always more vocal. When you eat fast food and it's good you might say "hey this stuff is really fresh today!" but who turns their car around, or calls up the local Burger King to say "Fantastic job guys!". No one.
But if you get cold fries or a stale bun your going to complain. I myself read the books for 7 or 8 years without feeling the need to go online or write letters to the authors.
), he showed very clearly that people who are happy with a product rarely talk about it by giving an example from a different industry (and hilariously enough one that we compare McDune to all the time ) and he said the opposite for people who are unhappy with a product and continued his example. What's to misunderstand? 
Oh, I'm definitely familiar with the concept, although I consider it to be a pretty empty sentiment backed up by no data. Much like "the customer is always right," and "there's no such thing as bad publicity." And, honestly, I'm not sure it's even that true ... fans of [insert item or idea here] are often quite vocal with their support. Ah, fuck it, that's a sidebar for another time, perhaps.A Thing of Eternity wrote:If you honestly had never heard or thought that upset people are more vocal than happy ones I don't know what planet you've been on
No, it just didn't track for me, for some reason (I read it twice and I was just baffled). Again, now it seems clearer ... but I can't go back in time and figure out why it didn't before. (And, Simon, if you used the Burger King example as a play on our "McDune" riff, then you scored a nice goal there, and shame on me for not catching it. Well-played)A Thing of Eternity wrote:If you honestly didn't grasp his original post then you have my sincere apologies for going on like that, I was working on the assumption that you simply felt the need to write something negative and did so without really looking at what he had written.
Fair nuff. And I agree, if he was consciously making a play on our McDune comments then it was pretty well done (I suspect that's a coincidence though...)TheDukester wrote:Oh, I'm definitely familiar with the concept, although I consider it to be a pretty empty sentiment backed up by no data. Much like "the customer is always right," and "there's no such thing as bad publicity." And, honestly, I'm not sure it's even that true ... fans of [insert item or idea here] are often quite vocal with their support. Ah, fuck it, that's a sidebar for another time, perhaps.A Thing of Eternity wrote:If you honestly had never heard or thought that upset people are more vocal than happy ones I don't know what planet you've been on
No, it just didn't track for me, for some reason (I read it twice and I was just baffled). Again, now it seems clearer ... but I can't go back in time and figure out why it didn't before. (And, Simon, if you used the Burger King example as a play on our "McDune" riff, then you scored a nice goal there, and shame on me for not catching it. Well-played)A Thing of Eternity wrote:If you honestly didn't grasp his original post then you have my sincere apologies for going on like that, I was working on the assumption that you simply felt the need to write something negative and did so without really looking at what he had written.
I won't deny that I thought it was a goofy post that I could take a shot at. It is clearer now; I'm not sure why it wouldn't register for me. Fatigue? The red haze I have to see through when I think of KJA?
I'll concede the point. He made a good effort and I just missed it.
This point I agree with - FH said it himself. But there's more...Simon wrote:Dune is about my entertainment first and foremost.
This is one of the reasons why Dune is brilliant.Frank Herbert wrote:If you want to get anything across, you have to be entertaining first. If you start standing on a street corner, people will tune you out. We human beings tend to have very good filter systems in our heads to see and hear only what we want to see. But analogues give you a marvellous device for getting past that screening system, because people can be caught up in the drama of the story, be deep into the problems of it. Then later on, much later on, they say, Oh, my God, he was talking about this!" And they come out of it with a brand new view of what's happening in their world.
( http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/ch01.html )
He's slipped before, but you don't have a whole mob of assholes pounding on you everytime you post something. This site is supposed to be about healthy discussion, and debate. Calling him "stupid" isn't doing a damn thing but making some of us OHers look like assholes. I, for one, am not. As a side note, he isn't really complaining about it.....TheDukester wrote:Oh, please.Mandy wrote:Have Frank Herbert's fans become a virtual lynch mob? I have to respect Simon for putting up with this crap, even though I don't know why he bothers. I haven't read the entire thread, but the bits I did read show that even when he's condescended to, and insulted, he still manages to remain civil.
Constantly pointing out misspelled words and grammatical errors are the sign of a weak troll.
Want me to take a couple of minutes and find about 15 examples of Simon's "civility"? He gives as good as he gets.
Really?Tleilax Master B wrote:This site is supposed to be about healthy discussion, and debate.
Well, the "weak troll" will just go ahead and edit those right out of existence, then.Freakzilla wrote:Agreed. I think we can figure out what he's saying quite easily.Mandy wrote:Constantly pointing out misspelled words and grammatical errors are the sign of a weak troll.
I don't actually doubt that (although I've not gone back and read very many of the older threads). And you've always been very good about reminding people that no one will be silenced or censored, which is part of being a good admin/moderator.Freakzilla wrote:That was the idea when this forum was started.
TheDukester wrote:Really?Tleilax Master B wrote:This site is supposed to be about healthy discussion, and debate.
That might be an ideal that is talked about here, and it might have even been true when the site began. But it's miles from the reality of where it's at now. I've been here since the summer, and I lurked a bit before that, and I have yet to see "discussion" or "debate" beyond maybe clarifying a few points from the original six books (which is cool by me, not to mention educational, but it's hardly "debate").
I'd be interested to see all of these threads where preeks have been welcomed and "discussions" have taken place. Because that's not on the internet that I'm looking at right now.
But whatever. You guys clearly need someone to wear the black hat so that you can feel better about yourselves and the bashing that you yourselves have done in the past. It's some sort of guilt thing, I guess. I'm fine with that; it's not the first time I've seen people play the superiority card on a messageboard.
(BTW, did anyone notice that I actually threw some praise Simon's way in each of my last two posts on the subject? No? Well, that's about par for the course ...)
I'm now cleansed of my past transgressions.. Sure.Tleilax Master B wrote:Considering I have never engaged you in the least on this site I fail to understand your comment about "par for the course", care to elaborate?
All done!TheDukester wrote:Well, the "weak troll" will just go ahead and edit those right out of existence, then.
Well, I have a mouth like a sailor on shore leave, so I drop the term asshole and dick all the time. No specific offense is meant by it-I commonly refer to myself as being an asshole and I'm certain I meet my own definition of that term.TheDukester wrote:Sure.Tleilax Master B wrote:Considering I have never engaged you in the least on this site I fail to understand your comment about "par for the course", care to elaborate?
There's a lot of cherry-picking** here. I'm guilty of it myself.
(**I might be the only person who uses this expression. What I mean is just using only a part of someone else's words or ideas ... the part that benefits your own argument. As stated, I do it, too).
BTW, I appear to be up to two "assholes" and a "dick," (or maybe it's the other way around) at this point, albeit in a passive-aggressive manner. I don't really mind; I've been called worse. But, please, just say it: I really dislike P-A nonsense (my wife and I argue about it all the time, so I'm probably over-sensitive on the subject).
And passive aggressive is not my style; so if it makes you feel better I think you were being a bit of an asshole to Simon. That's between you and him; I don't think you have necessarily been one to me.....yet 
Oh, hell, I was being an asshole to him in at least every-other post.Tleilax Master B wrote:... so if it makes you feel better I think you were being a bit of an asshole to Simon.
